What if you lose your faith?

[Behold]

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. " 1 John 2:24​

It remains IN you, if you are born again, otherwise you have BELIEVED in VAIN.

 

[GodsGrace]

The kingdom of God in the world:

"38The field is the world, and the good seed represents the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.40As the weeds are collected and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom (in the world - vs.38) every cause of sin and all who practice lawlessness." Matthew 13:38-41
​

Behold does not know the scriptures very well. He's well educated in a doctrinal construct that he learned. But he does not know the scriptures very well.

Behold knows the scriptures.
We Christians just seem to kind of make up our own belief system.
To tell you the truth, this is starting to really bother me.
How did we come to have so many differing opinions???

One of Jesus' missions was to set up the Kingdom of God on earth.
He meant to change man from the inside out.

 

[farouk]

It remains IN you, if you are born again, otherwise you have BELIEVED in VAIN.

@Behold I love the quote which @Eternally Grateful has on his avatar: "He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

 

[farouk]

Behold knows the scriptures.
We Christians just seem to kind of make up our own belief system.
To tell you the truth, this is starting to really bother me.
How did we come to have so many differing opinions???

One of Jesus' missions was to set up the Kingdom of God on earth.
He meant to change man from the inside out.

@GodsGrace Shows the need to be continually dependent on the Spirit of God for understanding, as we search the Scriptures.....

 

[GodsGrace]

Discipleship is about our works....
The Bema seat is about out works we have done "in the Body of Christ".
However we do not work to be saved, as if that is the way to heaven, Christ didnt have to die on the Cross.
And we dont work to stay saved, but because we are saved.

Agreed.

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace Shows the need to be continually dependent on the Spirit of God for understanding, as we search the Scriptures.....

Yes, we're all at different points in our journey with God as He walks by our side.
But we all search the scriptures and come up with different ideas.
I've been studying the Early Christians and this has helped me tremendously.
But...most will tell me they aren't inspired...as if the teachers of today are.

Must say good night now...please reply.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Are you there yet?

I will know when I get there. If I remain in the word, and as a result I remain in the Son and the Father, by God's grace I will be ready. You know about the parables that speak of not being ready.

Isn't this the argument that those that are there are the elect.

Well, surely only believing people can resist sin to the point of blood/death.

Those who fell away never had eternal life...

Maybe, maybe not. That's what is in debate. It all boils down to whether or not a true believer can stop believing. I say it doesn't matter what the answer to that is because what matters is that you really believe and continue to believe to the very end. That's what the Bible says to do. Let's focus on that, like the Bible does.

- the idea of 'temporary eternal life' is a contradiction.

Only in the narrow paradigm of thought of OSAS doctrine. Does a 'forever' stamp mean you can never lose it, or does it mean it will never lose it's value to deliver a first class letter? According to OSAS doctrine, 'forever' has to mean I can't lose them or that would be a contradiction of the idea of 'forever'.

 

[farouk]

Yes, we're all at different points in our journey with God as He walks by our side.
But we all search the scriptures and come up with different ideas.
I've been studying the Early Christians and this has helped me tremendously.
But...most will tell me they aren't inspired...as if the teachers of today are.

Must say good night now...please reply.

@GodsGrace Acts 2.42 is a very helpful guide to local church activities; it describes what was done.

Have a nice night...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Luke 17:21

How did that happen to the born again.
By being born again into the Spirit of God, by the Holy Spirit of God.
Now, where is God?
There is your answer.

Like I say, you don't listen. There is the spiritual kingdom of God made up of true believers, and there is the natural, earthly kingdom of God polluted with tares. You say unbelievers can enter the kingdom of God when Jesus comes back. I showed you where Jesus said they will be purged from the kingdom of God by fire at the end of the age.

 

[farouk]

Yes, we're all at different points in our journey with God as He walks by our side.
But we all search the scriptures and come up with different ideas.

@GodsGrace We should never stop learning from God's Word, right?

"O may these hallowed pages be
My ever dear delight!
And still new beauties may I see,
And still increasing light!

Divine instructor, gracious Lord,
Be Thou for ever near:
Teach me to love Thy sacred Word,
And view my Saviour there."

(Anne Steele, 18th century)

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Some say that we are justified before God as a legal action by Him,,,but our works are a sign to others that we are justified - James' version.
Is this what you're saying?

That is exactly what I'm saying. Justified means to, both, be made righteous, and to be seen as righteous. Paul is talking about being MADE righteous by receiving the righteousness that comes from God through your faith, not your works (Romans 10:3, Philippians 3:9). James is talking about being SHOWN to be righteous, your works showing that you have been made righteous by faith (James 2:18).

It's an antiquated word. I'm guessing that's why we don't understand how Paul and James are not in contradiction to each other. But a simple dictionary search shows it's various meanings and uses (justify) and that Paul and James are not contradicting each other but are addressing two different aspects of justification. In the link, James is using the word per the 1st definition. Paul is using the word per the 2nd definition. In a genuine salvation experience, a person is justified according to both definitions of the word, not just Paul's definition. And that is the important point about all this. Most Christians, it seems, think justification does not have to wash in how you behave, just as long as you've been made legally righteous by God. But you can't have Paul's justification without James' justification. That is what the church does not understand.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It remains IN you, if you are born again, otherwise you have BELIEVED in VAIN.

All the believing you do up to the point you depart in unbelief from the faith will indeed have been done in vain. It counts for nothing. Believing has to continue to the very end for you to be saved in the end.

6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first.

Hebrews 3:6-14​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"He that hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

Yes, we have a Great High Priest, and "since we have a great high priest...let us hold firmly to what we profess" Hebrews 4:14.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Quoting from Scripture, can you pin point the moment when Abraham believed? Since this was such a momentous occasion in the drama of salvation history, it should be clearly shown when Abraham actually believed and was reckoned as righteous—from unbelief to belief, from no faith to real faith.

Paul quotes from Genesis 15, but is that where Abraham first believed God?

At what point did his faith save him Mr. Bueller?

When he believed in the promise of a son in Genesis 15:6. That is when he received the promise of a son and believed it. And the verse says that is the moment he was justified (made righteous) by his faith. Just like how it is for us today. Abraham is our example. Justification occurs when we believe God's promise of a son that will inherit the blessing on our behalf. Not when we do things in faith, but when believe in God's promise of a Son.

James thinks Abraham was not justified in Genesis 15 or 17, but much later in Genesis 22, when he offered up Isaac. He states, “Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? (James 2:21 KJV). And then James is bold enough to say, “So you see, a man is justified by his works, and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)

With that said if YOU want to cherry pick Scripture and take it out of context to support what you have been taught by your men then by all means go ahead. I prefer to read ALL of Scripture IN CONTEXT!

James is not contradicting Paul. The scriptures plainly say Abraham was justified when he believed God's promise of a son in Genesis 15:6. So Paul is not wrong about Abraham being justified by believing God apart from works. James is simply telling us that's not the only way a person is justified. They are also justified (shown to be righteous, not made to be righteous as Paul is saying) when they act in accordance with the righteousness they have by faith. Abraham was justified by both faith and works. Faith all by itself, apart from what he did, made him righteous before God in Genesis 15:6. What he did in Genesis 22:9-10 showed him to have that righteousness.

 

[stephen64]

James is not contradicting Paul. The scriptures plainly say Abraham was justified when he believed God's promise of a son in Genesis 15:6. So Paul is not wrong about Abraham being justified by believing God apart from works. James is simply telling us that's not the only way a person is justified. They are also justified (shown to be righteous, not made to be righteous as Paul is saying) when they act in accordance with the righteousness they have by faith. Abraham was justified by both faith and works. Faith all by itself, apart from what he did, made him righteous before God in Genesis 15:6. What he did in Genesis 22:9-10 showed him to have that righteousness.

Very well put

 

[Carl Emerson]

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. " 1 John 2:24​

I was referring to my quote which has no IF...


1 John 5.

God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It all boils down to whether or not a true believer can stop believing. I say it doesn't matter what the answer to that is because what matters is that you really believe and continue to believe to the very end.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

 

[stephen64]

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Don't forget the preceding verse also:
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;

In relation to your verse, I wonder if there is not a difference between our faithlessness at times and completely losing faith in Christ himself. Paul did say:
But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:38&39.

So the two quotes maybe related to two very different aspects of faithlessness/losing faith

 

[Carl Emerson]

Don't forget the preceding verse also:
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;

In relation to your verse, I wonder if there is not a difference between our faithlessness at times and completely losing faith in Christ himself. Paul did say:
But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”

39 But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. Heb10:38&39.

So the two quotes maybe related to two very different aspects of faithlessness/losing faith

Those who disown are obviously not elect.

The elect do not belong to those who shrink back.

The elect are sealed against disowning by His indwelling fear.

 

[stephen64]

Those who disown are obviously not elect.

The elect do not belong to those who shrink back.

The elect are sealed against disowning by His indwelling fear.

Would you think, it is possible for someone to be placed in a saved state who was not of the elect?
In the second example of the parable of the sower people heard the good news with joy, they went on their way, and then fell away from the faith
Paul tells us people can shrink back and be destroyed, and surely you can only disown Christ once you have accepted him. Simply trying to bring all scripture into alignment here(not always easy to do)
In other words, if you accept Christ as your saviour, but make a shallow commitment, you may be placed in a saved state, but you can lose that. For those who do not make a shallow commitment, they remain safe. Only one hard and fast rule either way will bring difficulty with some scripture or other