What if you lose your faith?

[Carl Emerson]

That is not what not believing in OSAS means.

Just call it OSNS for clarity.

That's Once Saved Not Saved.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OSNS is devoid of promise.

Peter denied Christ three times and what happened?

Jesus made the move and confirmed His love for Peter.

The Heart of God is to Love.

He knows that we are but clay.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Just call it OSNS for clarity.

That's Once Saved Not Saved.

But that would be inaccurate. Just because a person could potentially stop believing, and as a result lose the eternally efficacious ministry and sacrifice of Jesus, that does not mean you weren't saved while you believed in it. Eternal life/salvation means it will never fail you or come to an end because the ministry and sacrifice that provided it is perfect and never ends. The 'salvation' the Levitical system provided failed and came to an end when the Priest officiating at the altar on your behalf was unclean, or failed to perform his duties correctly, or he died, preventing him from continuing to minister on your behalf. Not so with Jesus' ministry. His sacrifice is perfect and He lives forever, and so the effect of his ministry is eternal:

"23Now there have been many other priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office. 24But because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore He is able to save completelyd those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them." Hebrews 7:23-25​

And we are exhorted to keep believing in that eternal ministry in order to keep it's eternal efficaciousness applied to us:

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." Hebrews 4:14

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

just for the sake of argument......any type or stealing would be a “Willful Sin”, so as a Born Again Believer , if I decide to pilfer a Snicker Bar as I am strolling out of Wal- Mart and have a heart attack and die before it dawned on me that I needed to Repent.....what is the outcome for me? Thanks for your response.

What's the outcome for you? Your wife would drag you by the ear and make you take it back to Walmart and apologize to the manager. As far as your salvation is concerned? Since you are a believer that sin was instantly covered by the continuous intercessory ministry of Christ and his sacrifice in heaven that you trust and believe in. You'd have to go back to unbelief for it to not be covered.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

OSNS is devoid of promise.

Peter denied Christ three times and what happened?

Jesus made the move and confirmed His love for Peter.

The Heart of God is to Love.

He knows that we are but clay.

No, the promise is sure and steady for the believing, not for those who never believed or who stopped believing.

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23
​

Since he is faithful and, therefore, the promise so sure, we are exhorted to hold fast to it. You can see from that verse that God and the faithfulness of his promise is what is secure, not that you'll always believe in it and not cast it away in unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Born Again “ CAN” and “ DO” commit willful sins quite frequently.

...but not as a matter of an unrepentant lifestyle. That's what John is saying in 1 John 3:9-10. The person who is not being changed by the Holy Spirit does not have the Holy Spirit and so they remain exactly where they are in their habitual, unrepentant life of willful sin. Born again people, on the other hand, are growing up into Christ, struggling with sin, not living in it comfortably and willing, and learning to sin less and less. That is the mark of the true born again believer.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No “likes” In response to this? I’m surprised by that ....am I alone in my Thinking here with this post? I couldn’t care less about “ approval” — I just try to pass on things that I think are true that could help people— especially Newbies....just curious as to why there was not much of a positive response to what I thought was a good way to present a Valid and Biblical Doctrine....any thoughts? Any disagreements ? Thanks to anybody that responds....

There is no controversy in what you said. We all agree that a person is made righteous through their faith in the blood. We all agree works do not make a person righteous. What must happen between justification and being saved from the wrath of God on judgment day is what we disagree on. By virtue of what faith is and what it means to have a new, born again nature, you must also be justified (shown to be righteous) by your works:

"24 ...a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone." James 2:24
​

If you are not, both, made righteous through faith, and shown by your works to be righteous through faith, you are not going to be saved from the wrath of God at the coming judgment. For the faith that justifies all by itself apart from works is the faith that works:

"The only thing that counts is faith..."
​

What kind of faith?

"...faith expressing itself through love." Galatians 5:6
​

Since you like to quote Luther, remember this quote from him:

“We are saved by faith alone, but the faith that saves is never alone.”​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How is this possible if your “ Take” on 1John 3:9 is the correct one ? If it is not possible for a Believer to sin anymore, why do we need Jesus as the “ Advocate” That He says that He is....why have a “ Throne Of Grace” that we are to go to when we SIN....why does God “ Chastise ” ERRANT Children....why does even James admit that we ALL STUMBLE?

The Bible talks about “ Spiritual Warfare” ......what do you think that is referring to....the Flesh will battle against the Spirit until the day that we die....

If you want to base everything on your pet verse , I’ll do the same thing with mine....how do you explain THIS one —— “ If we say that we are without SIN, we call God a Liar”.

Oh, BB! You could have saved all that computer ink if you'd just understood I'm in no way shape or form saying or even suggesting that 1 John 3:9 means born again people never ever sin. And since I'm not saying that, there is nothing here for me to respond to. It's not my argument.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What's the outcome for you? Your wife would drag you by the ear and make you take it back to Walmart and apologize to the manager. As far as your salvation is concerned? Since you are a believer that sin was instantly covered by the continuous intercessory ministry of Christ and his sacrifice in heaven that you trust and believe in. You'd have to go back to unbelief for it to not be covered.

Uhhh......you left out a little something....*I DIED!!!!* ....there was No Chance for my wife to do anything and “MORE IMPORTANT”—— the sudden heart attack that Killed me happened before I had a chance to Repent or ask for forgiveness ......soooooo.....let’s try it again....what was my Eternal Fate for committing a WILLFUL SIN without repenting????

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Oh, BB! You could have saved all that computer ink if you'd just understood I'm in no way shape or form saying or even suggesting that 1 John 3:9 means born again people never ever sin. And since I'm not saying that, there is nothing here for me to respond to. It's not my argument.

That was a mistake.....I “ KNOW” you are not “THAT” far gone...lol.....sounds like I gave a response That was meant for Charismatic Lady..... I have not been myself lately....my Thinking has been addled by too many Snickers
That “ Computer Ink” reference? Please, stop stealing my stuff......lol...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

...but not as a matter of an unrepentant lifestyle. That's what John is saying in 1 John 3:9-10. The person who is not being changed by the Holy Spirit does not have the Holy Spirit and so they remain exactly where they are in their habitual, unrepentant life of willful sin. Born again people, on the other hand, are growing up into Christ, struggling with sin, not living in it comfortably and willing, and learning to sin less and less. That is the mark of the true born again believer.

I have no problem with this...( MOST of it anyway, lol)
Here’s the thing—- as I have said before — obtaining the Holy Spirit is like obtaining a radioactive rock and keeping it in your pocket.....You may not be aware of how that radioactivity is changing you, or even “ IF” it is Changing you, but Rest Assured—— It * I S * Changing you.....
If a person is a Believer , by definition he has the Holy Spirit in him...If that Spirit is allowed to “ hang around” long enough, That Indwelling Spirit “SHOULD” start TRANSFORMING a person’s Life! I heartily Believe that that Spirit “ WILL” TRANSFORM a person’s life...... I am just saying( and mostly Theoretically) that it does not * HAVE* to....

I say this because the Elixir for Salvation is “GRACE Through Faith”—— Plus NOTHING! The “ Change” is a “Result” of the Grace and Faith.....

Jesus could have told the Thief on the Cross , “ OH MAN! You were “ this” close! You almost Had it! Unfortunately for you, however , the other thing you had to have, besides your Faith in me , was “ change in your life”, and the terrible news for you is that the ol’ clock just ran out—- no “ change” or to state It a different way—- “ No Fruits” equals No Salvation......

The Thief could have been an example for all that followed.....If you Plan on getting saved, do it while you hopefully have some time left—- time to get at least an iota Of “ Change” in your life...
“ By Grace you are Saved , Through Faith and Mandatory Change “

Once again, I believe like you do that Change WILL Come ! I just maintain , and mainly Theoretically.
It does not HAVE to....

When I got Saved many, many years ago after I Turned to God to Save me ( Repentance) as a result of being Convicted Of Sin By The Holy Spirit ( Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him) it was MANY YEARS before there was any outward appearance of “ Change” .....and the CHANGES that ‘DID” occur were Inward Ones That even * I* was unaware Of for many years....

Any outside Observer or “ Fruit Inspector” would not have a “ Clue” as to how I had my eyes “ opened” and how I had Turned to God.....and how drastically he changed my Life —- taking me from a Lost Atheist to a Believer ( and I had been a Believer in my youth that had lost his Faith in College ) I guess that I have my parents to thank for much of this —-“Raise a Child in the Way He should go, and when he gets older he shall not depart from it” )

God brought me back to Himself......He started Transforming me....it was ALL His doing.....
Nobody saw it....Nobody Knew it....it took years to get started ....it was All according to HIS Time- Table.....

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, the promise is sure and steady for the believing, not for those who never believed or who stopped believing.

No, the promise is sure and steady for the believing, not for those who never believed or who stopped believing.

"23Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful." Hebrews 10:23
​

Since he is faithful and, therefore, the promise so sure, we are exhorted to hold fast to it. You can see from that verse that God and the faithfulness of his promise is what is secure, not that you'll always believe in it and not cast it away in unbelief.

FB -

1. What is the Unforgivable Sin ???

2. Is the sin of unbelief forgivable ???

3. Do you have to repent of every sin before death?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

1. What is the Unforgivable Sin ???

Purposely and knowingly rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit about Jesus.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

2. Is the sin of unbelief forgivable ???

For the Christian, generally speaking, no. It is not forgivable.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

3. Do you have to repent of every sin before death?

In order to be saved when Jesus comes back? No.
That is, as long as you are a believer engaged in the epic struggle between right and wrong, and not living in determined unbelief, your every sin is covered by the blood of Christ that you believe and trust in. But if you have gone back to unbelief you no longer have the blood of Christ protecting you from the eternal penalty for your sin. And depending on circumstances, God may leave you there.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

But if you have gone back to unbelief you no longer have the blood of Christ protecting you from the eternal penalty for your sin.


Sounds logical to the mind of man, but does
not appear to be backed up by Scripture.....


“ NOTHING can take you from my hand”. “ Nothing means NOTHING and that would include YOU and anything you” DO” or “ DON’T ” do.....

“ All Those That Believe In Me *ALREADY HAVE* Eternal Life and shall *NEVER* come under Condemnation” .... NEVER means NEVER! A Believer that fell into the Error and Sin Of Unbelief, once he had already Believed previously is Covered —- Salvation was something he ALREADY HAD

How about the guy that saw that he was a Lost Sinner and ASKED to be Saved.....The Bible GUARANTEES That That man WILL be Saved.....

“ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE Saved”—— If a man sincerely turns to God to be Saved, I don’t care what that man does or doesn’t do—- God has to see to it that he gets Saved—- or God is a Liar.......and that ain’t likely...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

But if you have gone back to unbelief you no longer have the blood of Christ protecting you from the eternal penalty for your sin.


Sounds logical to the mind of man, but does
not appear to be backed up by Scripture.

Here it is:

"...we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6
​

If you do not have faith you are not "His house". Only those who are in the house, and stay in the house are protected from the destroying angel. I know you subscribe to a theology that says this is not true. But you are the one who does not have scripture to back up your belief that the author of Hebrews is wrong.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ NOTHING can take you from my hand”. “ Nothing means NOTHING and that would include YOU and anything you” DO” or “ DON’T ” do.

To not be "snatched" from the hand of God implies being removed by someone or something outside of yourself by force. That is surely what will not, and cannot happen:

"28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand." John 10:28-29​

It has nothing to do with walking out of his hand of your own volition.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ All Those That Believe In Me *ALREADY HAVE* Eternal Life and shall *NEVER* come under Condemnation” .... NEVER means NEVER!

Read your own words! That promise is for believing people, not people who never believed or who have stopped believing. Why do you keep choosing to ignore this scriptural fact?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

A Believer that fell into the Error and Sin Of Unbelief, once he had already Believed previously is Covered —- Salvation was something he ALREADY HAD

Yes, he already HAD, but who does not now have, because he is in unbelief, because only those who continue in their believing are of the household of God:

"6 ...And we are His house, if we hold firmlyc to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14
​

What is it about 'if' that you do not understand? You'd be better off just going back to the original OSAS teaching that affirmed this scriptural truth. Only believing people, enduring to the very end in their faith are saved.