What if you lose your faith?

[Ferris Bueller]

If our Salvation depends on our Endurance, it contradicts the many, many Promises given to us from God in regard to our Eternal Security.

Enduring to the very end is believing to the very end. Salvation is in fact conditioned on you enduring in your believing to the very end:

"As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father." 1 John 2:24

The underlying problem is the word “ IF”.....
When Satan asked Jesus “ IF” He was the Son Of God He was not indicating that he didn’t know who Jesus was....The Greek Word That is translated “ IF “ also means, “ SINCE” and “ that” interpretation actually falls into line with the Rest Of Scripture....Scripture that does not inspire fear and concern, but Scrioture that backs up what Paul said elsewhere—- “ The Holy Spirit is SEALED inside of us and is a down payment that GUARANTEES our Salvation”......Col.1:13

Now look at the different Greek word translated 'if' in Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14, and a 1 John 2:24 (see quote above). I'm trying to get out the door to go to Aldi's and Walmart. We'll talk more about this later.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Unbelief.

......a Lifetime Of It....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That is right. James and Paul are in perfect agreement about this: A man is justified by both faith and works. Paul does not teach that all you have to have is dead faith (faith with no works) at the Judgment and you'll pass through safely. He says the faith that makes you righteous all by itself without works is the faith that works. He completely debunks any Freegrace argument that somehow the person with dead faith has real faith and will go to the right and into the kingdom at the final judgment. If that person had real faith they'd have the works to show for it. That's why Jesus can and will judge mankind according to their deeds.

The Legalists, Those “Fallen From Grace” and “ Severed from Christ” actually * WANT* to be “ Judged by their DEEDS , because they think their “ Goodness “ Is What Justifies Them ( they added to the Gospel, thought they “ kept the Law “ and/or made sure they Repented Of all of their sins before they died,etc) Yes , Jesus will accommodate those that WANT to be judged by their Works....He WILL Judge them by their Works and they will hear, “ Depart from me, I NEVER knew you!”.....

On the “OTHER” hand.....Their will be guys like me that will give Jesus and His Shed Blood at the Cross * ALL* the Credit for their Salvation and they will be on their knees worshipping Him and HIM ALONE , Thanking Him and Adoring Him for taking the Judgement that was due to Them , and taking it upon Himself......

That other crowd should have taken to Heart a couple of songs that they sang like the hypocrites that they were... It’s gonna turn out that it really WAS “ Nothing But The Blood”......It Also turns out that their mind-set SHOULD have been like another song they mindlessly sang—- “ Nothing of myself I bring , it’s ONLY to the Cross I Cling”......
Try to actually Believe the songs that you sing—-their Could Yet Be hope yet for you Self- Righteous , Blind Guides.....

NEVER forget this—“ Anybody that thinks that they are “ Good Enough” for Heaven is Damned”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

John 5:24 makes it clear that the believing person has eternal life right now. I have affirmed this truth over and over again. Why are you addressing me with this? Did you forget that I agree that the believing person has eternal life right now?

"24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
​

The believing person has eternal life and will not come under judgment and has crossed from death to life.

I continue to “ address” you because we still disagree.....I think that a Believer can fall into the Error Of “ Unbelief” and still be Saved because he qualified for a Promise Of Jesus that he obtained at the very first second of his Trusting the Gospel to save him....I think that , like me, a Believer who falls into the very serious Error Of Unbelief will be brought back to his senses before he dies.....and if Not, That Grievous Sin will be covered by the Blood.....
Once a man Believes and becomes Saved, that man has the Promise that “ Nothing in the future” will remove him from God's grasp.... and if a person Believes the Gospel even for a second, he has the Promise that he “ ALREADY HAS” Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation.....

You claim” If this” and “ if that” has to occur or not occur for Salvation.......If there is “ANYTHING” that must happen.....if their is ANYTHING out there that must be “ Endured” or if there is anything out there that Must be done to “prove” that you have been saved, it is up to God to see that it comes to pass.....

If it turns out that I have to juggle 20 chain saws and whistle “ Dixie” while doing it in order to be Saved,God will have to see to it that it happens......After all, it was “ HE” that stuck His neck out—- it was “ HE” that Promised, “ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved, WILL BE Saved”....... excuse the heck out of me , but I just happen to Believe that Promise....( it’s called “ Faith” )

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That is right. James and Paul are in perfect agreement about this: A man is justified by both faith and works. Paul does not teach that all you have to have is dead faith (faith with no works) at the Judgment and you'll pass through safely. He says the faith that makes you righteous all by itself without works is the faith that works. He completely debunks any Freegrace argument that somehow the person with dead faith has real faith and will go to the right and into the kingdom at the final judgment. If that person had real faith they'd have the works to show for it. That's why Jesus can and will judge mankind according to their deeds.

“ DEAD FAITH” = Beggarly Christian Walk on Earth.....no Rewards in Heaven

“ NO Faith”= Damnation

There is a Difference—- and it turns out to be a BIG one...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Unbelief.

Wrong sorry...

The one sin that will never be forgiven by God is as quoted below - and it is not unbelief as you claim.

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Wrong sorry...

The one sin that will never be forgiven by God is as quoted below - and it is not unbelief as you claim.

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

The Pharisees were knowingly and willingly rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit in Jesus miracles, accusing him of doing those miracles by the devil himself, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit. And so they blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Every person, whether they ever believed or not, does the same thing when they, too, knowingly and willingly reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit:

6 ...it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth.
9 ...For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son.
10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him (the Holy Spirit) out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the (Holy Spirit's) testimony that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:6-10
​

Knowingly and willingly rejecting the testimony of the Spirit about Jesus is an unforgivable sin because they are rejecting the only sacrifice for sin that exists. No sacrifice remains for the person who rejects the only sacrifice for sin there is. And so they have nothing left to look forward to but to be destroyed with the enemies of God:

"26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries." Hebrews 10:26-27​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ DEAD FAITH” = Beggarly Christian Walk on Earth.....no Rewards in Heaven

“ NO Faith”= Damnation

There is a Difference—- and it turns out to be a BIG one...

James says that kind of faith can not save:

"12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. 13For judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?" James 2:12-14​

So we know dead faith doesn't just mean loss of rewards for lack of work. And, besides, John made it very clear, even saying not to be deceived about this, that those who do not live righteously are of the devil, not God:

"7 ...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil..." 1 John 3:7-8
​

You have been deceived. You think the hypocrite who claims to be in Christ because he made some confession of faith somewhere in the past, but who lives in sin, is of God. You are indeed very deceived.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I continue to “ address” you because we still disagree.

Stay on point. I don't disagree that the believer has eternal life, now, the moment they receive the gospel, placing their trust in God. That's what you need not address me about.

"24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
​

Where we disagree is where you depart from the scriptures and claim that you do not have to continue to be the believing person to whom the promise of eternal life has been given. The promise is for the present tense believing person, not the person who never believed or who has stopped believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I think that a Believer can fall into the Error Of “ Unbelief” and still be Saved because he qualified for a Promise Of Jesus that he obtained at the very first second of his Trusting the Gospel to save him.

But you keep ignoring the part of the promise that says it's for believing people, not people who have stopped believing. A truth that is supported by the other passages of scripture I've been posting that say the same thing - you must be a present tense believer to be presently saved.

I think that , like me, a Believer who falls into the very serious Error Of Unbelief will be brought back to his senses before he dies.....and if Not, That Grievous Sin will be covered by the Blood.

No, unrepentant unbelief is not covered by the blood because you can't have the benefit of the only sacrifice for sin there is that you have rejected. Remember, the promise is for the presently believing person, not the person who has stopped believing.

Besides, you can't have a theology that utterly contradicts the plain passages of scripture that say you are of the household of God IF you continue in believing:

"6But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmlyc to our confidence and the hope of which we boast." Hebrews 3:6

"14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly to the end the assurance we had at first." Hebrews 3:14
​

You're blatantly saying the Bible is not true. You're actually casting away plain scripture in favor or what you want to believe.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

if a person Believes the Gospel even for a second, he has the Promise that he “ ALREADY HAS” Eternal Life and shall NEVER come under Condemnation.

Okay, then you have to also believe that a person who stops believing loses his salvation. Because they surely did receive salvation when they first believed. That's not in dispute. But what is also not in dispute is the scriptural fact that only believing people enduring in their believing are of the household of God. So you have no choice but to believe that the person who stops believing loses the salvation they surely had. Understand?

Like I say, you'd be better off just going back to the relative safety of the original OSAS argument which said the truly born again person won't stop believing, and if they do it shows they were never really born again. At least they don't have Christ rejecting unbelievers to whom the promise was not given inheriting the kingdom of God like your theology does.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If there is “ANYTHING” that must happen.....if their is ANYTHING out there that must be “ Endured” or if there is anything out there that Must be done to “prove” that you have been saved, it is up to God to see that it comes to pass.

I'm good with that. But you obviously don't really believe that yourself. Because as the Bible shows us the 'thing' you have to have is present tense, enduring faith. But in your theology God may not see to it that you have that, because your theology says even if you go back to unbelief and stay there to the day you die you are still saved. You're not even true to your own beliefs. You can't say God will provide you with what you need and then turn right around and say what happens when he doesn't! Your theology is a convoluted mess of contradictory beliefs. Mine's simple: You are saved when you first believe the gospel. You remain saved as long as you keep believing what you heard in the beginning. No need for complicated theologies about faith and works and salvation and believing. I just go with what the Bible plainly says. Sinful man and his overthought, ear tickling theologies complicate the simplicity of the gospel.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved, WILL BE Saved”....... excuse the heck out of me , but I just happen to Believe that Promise....( it’s called “ Faith” )

You believe a lie because you conveniently leave the part out about the promise being to the present tense believing person enduring to the end in that believing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If it turns out that I have to juggle 20 chain saws and whistle “ Dixie” while doing it in order to be Saved,God will have to see to it that it happens.

But then your theology explains what happens when he doesn't. You have very contradictory beliefs.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Legalists, Those “Fallen From Grace” and “ Severed from Christ” actually * WANT* to be “ Judged by their DEEDS , because they think their “ Goodness “ Is What Justifies Them

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Jesus will in fact judge us according to our deeds. It's just that they will have deeds of self-righteousness that can not save them (religious activities), while true believers will have true deeds of righteousness produced by God's righteousness.

Yes , Jesus will accommodate those that WANT to be judged by their Works....He WILL Judge them by their Works and they will hear, “ Depart from me, I NEVER knew you!”.

... And then he will judge the righteous by their deeds - deeds that show He does know them - and escort them into the kingdom (Matthew 25:34-36).

See, one of your fundamental problems is you think the people who will be turned away at the final judgment in Matthew 7:23 have works of righteousness for Jesus to judge, but works of righteousness they did out of themselves. No! Jesus says they did NOT do the things he commanded to be done! They have works of ministry, not works of obedience. These people in no way have works of obedience to brag about at the resurrection as you claim. You keep thinking these are people who are going to be there saying I obeyed this command and I obeyed that command. NO! Jesus is very clear they did NOT do what he commanded. They are workers of lawlessness (Matthew 7:23). That's why they're being condemned. They have no works of obedience to validate them as being people Jesus knows. And so off to the left and into the fire place they will go (Matthew 25:41-43).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

On the “OTHER” hand.....Their will be guys like me that will give Jesus and His Shed Blood at the Cross * ALL* the Credit for their Salvation and they will be on their knees worshipping Him and HIM ALONE , Thanking Him and Adoring Him for taking the Judgement that was due to Them , and taking it upon Himself.

... And then Jesus will look for the evidence of your adoration for him. And if he finds none, off to the fiery place you will go:

"41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment..." Matthew 25:41-46
​

Notice, the righteous and unrighteous are already divided up right and left at the judgment. This is the sentencing phase of God's holy judgment of mankind.

If this is still not making a dent in your 'you don't have to have a faith that works to be saved' theology don't forget what your favorite theologian to quote said:

"We say that justification is effective without works, not that faith is without works. For that faith which lacks fruit is not an efficacious but a reigned faith."
Martin Luther​

 

[GTW27]

Wrong sorry...

The one sin that will never be forgiven by God is as quoted below - and it is not unbelief as you claim.

Matthew 12:31
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against The Spirit will not be forgiven. And who ever says a word against The Son of Man will be forgiven; but who ever speaks against The Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age, or in the age to come.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The Pharisees were knowingly and willingly rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit in Jesus miracles, accusing him of doing those miracles by the devil himself, in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit. And so they blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

Every person, whether they ever believed or not, does the same thing when they, too, knowingly and willingly reject the testimony of the Holy Spirit in effect calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit:

6 ...it is the Spirit who testifies to this, because the Spirit is the truth.
9 ...For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son.
10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him (the Holy Spirit) out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the (Holy Spirit's) testimony that God has given about His Son." 1 John 5:6-10
​

Knowingly and willingly rejecting the testimony of the Spirit about Jesus is an unforgivable sin because they are rejecting the only sacrifice for sin that exists. No sacrifice remains for the person who rejects the only sacrifice for sin there is. And so they have nothing left to look forward to but to be destroyed with the enemies of God:

"26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries." Hebrews 10:26-27​

Please stay on the point.

You claimed that the unforgivable sin was unbelief.

The unforgivable sin IS NOT UNBELIEF.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Please stay on the point.

You claimed that the unforgivable sin was unbelief.

The unforgivable sin IS NOT UNBELIEF.

Unbelief is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's calling the Holy Spirit a liar when it testifies about the Son of God.

...calling the Holy Spirit a lying spirit. And so they blasphemed the Holy Spirit.

It's unforgivable because it rejects the very sacrifice for sin that would otherwise be available to forgive your sin.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

You're blatantly saying the Bible is not true. You're actually casting away plain scripture in favor or what you want to believe.



And , of course, I would charge you with this same accusation....so now what? We have both explained our positions to the best of our ability....it’s really starting to get repetitive and old—-let the readers decide for themselves...I think I’m done with this debate....let’s debate the pros and cons of the self check- out aisle at your friendly Wal- Mart....did you use it the other day....many compliant about it....I think it’s fun.....