What if you lose your faith?

[BloodBought 1953]

The “ Evidence “ will be there —- it’s in my Heart, the thing that God looks at....

And just so that will Be no misunderstanding.....all this stuff that you preach? All these “ conditions” that you say that the Bible demands? Just for the Record, I have them....I have them ALL...I got the “ Good Works” ..BOTH TYPES! The good works that I do because they are simply the right thing to do and they give me a selfish pleasure to do them .....I also have the Good Works That have nothing to with me —- they are GOD and Holy Spirit driven.....it’s God Working “HIS GOOD” THROUGH ME!

You may not be familiar with that latter type...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Unbelief is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's calling the Holy Spirit a liar when it testifies about the Son of God.


It's unforgivable because it rejects the very sacrifice for sin that would otherwise be available to forgive your sin.

If this is the case ( and I am not arguing with you about the point that you made) there must be TWO Unforgiveable sins ....
We Both agree that anybody that is in a state of Unbelief from cradle to grave is not going to be Saved....
So you got “ that” guy going to Hell , and “ THEN” you got the OTHER guy that credits Satan with a Miracle That has clearly been done by the Holy Spirit—- HE is damned also , so it just makes sense that their are TWO things that are “ Unforgivable ” ......Right? Not arguing here....just questioning ...it’s something I’ve always thought about......


.

 

[Taken]

Enduring to the very end is believing to the very end. Salvation is in fact conditioned on you enduring in your believing to the very end:

"As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father." 1 John 2:24

That IS True.
However ALSO True IS: WHO is doing the KEEPING the enduring.
...A man by his own power? Which can fail.
...A man by Gods power? Which can never fail.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Where we disagree is where you depart from the scriptures and claim that you do not have to continue to be the believing person to whom the promise of eternal life has been given. The promise is for the present tense believing person, not the person who never believed or who has stopped believing.



Any scenario that you posit that would involve a Believer losing his Salvation CAN not and WILL not ever occur with at least Two Groups Of people ( and there are more)

The First Group is composed of EVERYONE that has sincerely * ASKED* to be Saved....if that is not true , God is a Liar. He stuck His neck out and made a MIGHTY PROMISE —- “ ANYBODY that AKS to be Saved WILL be Saved”....He did NOT say, “ Do do this and don’t do that and meet any future qualifications and take care of all of the “ ifs” that you run across and then you have a GOOD OPPORTUNITY to be Saved...” “ I know that “I” promised to Save you, but in the end, it’s really up to you in the end.....I must have misspoke ....my Bad”

Another group that will never have the possibility of doing any of the things that you and the other confused, Weak Believers fear is the group of people that Rest in Paul’s Gospel ...Paul says that if you Simply Believe that Jesus “ Died for your Sins” and “ rose from the grave” you WILL BE SAVED! No qualifications other than to Believe ! ( strange how that jibes with one of the two actual Commandment That Jesus left us with——‘ Believe and Love’ )

We are told to “ Continue to Believe” —- that would be a Condition....If breaking that Condition causes you to be damned , It Can’t and Wont happen to Anybody that has “ASKED TO BE SAVED” —- How could God damn that person on Judgement Day without breaking the Promise that He made in Romans 10:13.....Do you think He was in the dark when He made That Promise to All Of Mankind? He KNEW people would “ Stumble” .....he KNEW Believers could commit such terrible sins as sleeping with Their Step- Mother’s ! He KNEW that Believers could lapse into a period of Unbelief.....HE KNEW absolutely about EVERY Detail Of Anything That could Possibly happen to a person to “ through them off- course in their lifetime once they “ ASKED” to be Saved—— HE MADE THE PROMISE *ANYWAY!* —— you either Believe it or you Don’t .....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

That IS True.
However ALSO True IS: WHO is doing the KEEPING the enduring.
...A man by his own power? Which can fail.
...A man by Gods power? Which can never fail.

A reminder to the “ Poor Students Of the Word”, That are Awash in Bible Ignorance and as God warned, will Stand Ashamed”...

1Cor1:8.......” *HE * will keep you STRONG until the END so that you will be * BLAMELESS* on that Day that He returns “......


Plus, we got this......” Who is he that Endures but he who Believes that Jesus is the Son Of God”
1John 5:5



Is just like Jesus Promised —— If you Simply BELIEVE in Him, you * ALREADY HAVE” Eternal Life....a five year old could understand that....some in these Forums can’t....

 

[Carl Emerson]

Unbelief is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It's calling the Holy Spirit a liar when it testifies about the Son of God.

I hear you opinion - scripture please...

What I do know is the scripture defines the unforgivable sin and doesn't mention unbelief...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I hear you opinion - scripture please...

What I do know is the scripture defines the unforgivable sin and doesn't mention unbelief...

I posted the scriptures. Didn't you read them?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That IS True.
However ALSO True IS: WHO is doing the KEEPING the enduring.
...A man by his own power? Which can fail.
...A man by Gods power? Which can never fail.

God does the keeping as you LET HIM.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If this is the case ( and I am not arguing with you about the point that you made) there must be TWO Unforgiveable sins ....
We Both agree that anybody that is in a state of Unbelief from cradle to grave is not going to be Saved....
So you got “ that” guy going to Hell , and “ THEN” you got the OTHER guy that credits Satan with a Miracle That has clearly been done by the Holy Spirit—- HE is damned also , so it just makes sense that their are TWO things that are “ Unforgivable ” ......Right? Not arguing here....just questioning ...it’s something I’ve always thought about......


.

Rejecting the testimony of the Holy Spirit is unbelief. They are one and the same thing.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And , of course, I would charge you with this same accusation....so now what?

Show me what scriptures are made wrong by what I believe. I've explained them all to you. You've haven't explained any that you've cast away and made not true by your beliefs.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We have both explained our positions to the best of our ability....it’s really starting to get repetitive and old

I've been trying to make you see that you haven't explained anything. Your beliefs make scripture not true and you can't explain how it doesn't. You don't even try. You just keep steamrolling us with your misguided beliefs.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

"7 ...let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.e 8The one who practices sin is of the devil..." 1 John 3:7-8



The Only True Righteousness that you or anybody else will ever know is that “ Righteousness” that was “ imputed” to you by Trusting the Gospel to Save you .....If you have done that , you “ practice” Righteousness ...because * RIGHTEOUSNESS* “ IS” You.....it Lives INSIDE of you !.....As Paul said, now that we are Saved, how are we to LIVE? We continue to LIVE in the very thing that got us SAVED in the first place—— FAITH! We are to live “ From FAITH to FAITH”....

This is not a clarion call from John to go out and do “ good deeds” or to go out and try to “ keep the Commandments” to prove that you are “ righteous”....we should know that “ that” road only leads to “ Dead Works” and Pride and SELF Righteousness ....and by the “ Keeping Of The Law” no man will be “ Justified” .....

Do you seek to have the same Righteousness that Jesus had? Great. Christianity is NOT going around trying to ACT like Jesus and making Christianity an “ Act Like Jesus Contest” ( the essence of my old Methodist Upbringing ) ......Don’t “ ACT” like Jesus —- * BE* like Jesus! What actually “ MADE” Jesus , “ Jesus?” It was HIS FAITH!

Jesus didn't wakeup each morning concentrating on how “ Good” or “ Righteous “ that He had to be that day....He never concerned himself with Will Power and WORKING on His Behavior ......Jesus was 100% Obedient to His Father, and His Perfect Obedience was a Natural Result Of His 100% FAITH....If we truly want to “be like” Jesus ( and of course we do) let’s d things the way that HE did! Concentrate on Trusting and Obeying the PROMISES of God ( that is the Real Faith That God is looking for) and see if that gets the Holy Spirit in you and you will “ FIND YOURSELF” doing the TRUE “ Righteous” things that God desires—— Him Working “ Through” you.....Just like God dud with Jesus....We can’t Trust God 100% like Jesus did....But THAT is the approach to work on...

Jesus Trusted His Father to the extent that He LITERALLY hung His Body at the Cross on a Promise Of God.....Wise people will take a lesson from that....

From the Beginning to the End, its FAITH.....Wanna be “ Righteous?” The “ Righteous” Shall * LIVE* by FAITH!”......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

... And then Jesus will look for the evidence of your adoration for him. And if he finds none, off to the fiery place you will go:



The “Evidence” follows me every day and everywhere I go..... I have accomplished the very thing that you yourself quoted not that long ago....I do the “ ONLY thing that matters” according to Paul——I have a FAITH that expresses itself through LOVE”........If one lacks that “ Love”, everything else is pretty much “ small potatoes”.....

I “Adore” God because I KNOW Him .....I KNOW that I am STILL a Wretched Sinner ( even though God has slowly Transformed me into the Image Of His Son over these many years) and I STILL “MUST” have God's Grace by the Ton in order to be with Him in Eternity....God’s Amazing Grace has kept me for these many years and I know I can Trust in His Amazing Grace to get me Home....

I think you Self- Righteous Legalists still see God mainly as “ That Mean Old Man in the Sky” —- an Entity That is just “ chomping at the bit” to cast you into Hell for “ not measuring up” or for not Repenting for all Of your Sins before you die...and if you ever commit an on-purpose “ Willful Sin?” Let’s not even “ GO” there!

Your Version Of God is a harsh Task- Master—— always Demanding things that you know in your “ heart-Of-hearts” that you can’t do....
You can Fear a “ god” like that —- but you ain’t Never gonna Worship , much less “Adore” one—- if you ain’t truly Worshiping God “NOW” , what makes you think that you will on that Day that you meet Him.....
Come Judgement Day, I’m gonna be like that Sinful lady that knelt dawn and grabbed Jesus feet and would not let go.....The Pharisees that were Present on that same day ( like the ones in here) did not know who He was —— but SHE knew , and so do I.....The “ Adoration” follows Naturally.....You probably are Clueless as to what I am talking about...You don’t realize that you are a MUCH BIGGER SINNER than you think that you are.....That is why you Reject the Grace that you Need and lack the Gratitude for it.....The Self - Righteous don't think that they Need it.....

 

[Carl Emerson]

I posted the scriptures. Didn't you read them?

You have posted no scripture that says the unforgivable sin is unbelief.

You can't and wont admit this because it blows your theories apart.

If unbelief in a believers life is forgiven (which it is) then your OSNS position is impossible.

That is why you have to claim that the unforgivable sin is unbelief to cover your theological back.

All sin is forgivable except the unforgivable sin which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

If this was not so, then Thomas would not be counted with the twelve given that, post resurrection, he was strongly in unbelief, and in your theory, blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Maybe you should take a deep breath and bow out for a while and seek fresh revelation...

The elect are sealed against falling away by His indwelling fear. That does not mean they cant fall into unbelief and if they do it isn't fatal.

Show me any scripture that says the unforgivable sin is unbelief.

You cant.

 

[Dropship]

..The elect are sealed against falling away by His indwelling fear. That does not mean they cant fall into unbelief and if they do it isn't fatal..

But what if they die during a spell of unbelief? Do unbelievers go to heaven, or do they go down here?..-

 

[Taken]

God does the keeping as you LET HIM.

Yes. Once forever Conversion.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But what if they die during a spell of unbelief? Do unbelievers go to heaven, or do they go down here?..-

View attachment 23813

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.

Think Jesus response to Peter after three denials.

Think Jesus response to Thomas when refusing to believe.

Remember Jer 32:40 and the promise to be kept from falling but the indwelling fear of Him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Only True Righteousness that you or anybody else will ever know is that “ Righteousness” that was “ imputed” to you by Trusting the Gospel to Save you .....If you have done that , you “ practice” Righteousness ...because * RIGHTEOUSNESS* “ IS” You.....it Lives INSIDE of you !.....As Paul said, now that we are Saved, how are we to LIVE? We continue to LIVE in the very thing that got us SAVED in the first place—— FAITH! We are to live “ From FAITH to FAITH”....

This is not a clarion call from John to go out and do “ good deeds” or to go out and try to “ keep the Commandments” to prove that you are “ righteous”....we should know that “ that” road only leads to “ Dead Works” and Pride and SELF Righteousness ....and by the “ Keeping Of The Law” no man will be “ Justified” .

We'll just let the plain words of scripture explain to you that he's talking about actually doing righteous things. And how they prove that you are saved:

3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" 1 John 5:3​

22and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. 23And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, and we should love one another just as He commanded us." 1 John 3:22-23​

"18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth, and will assure our hearts in His presence:" 1 John 3:18-19

"17In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him." 1 John 4:17​

 

[Dropship]

But what if they die during a spell of unbelief? Do unbelievers go to heaven?..

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are unfaithful, he remains faithful, for he cannot deny who he is.
Think Jesus response to Peter after three denials.
Think Jesus response to Thomas when refusing to believe.
Remember Jer 32:40 and the promise to be kept from falling but the indwelling fear of Him.

I was hoping for a "Yes" or "No" answer to my question..

Look at it this way- Elvis blew everybody's socks off with his fantastic 1950's songs and everybody believed he was the greatest, and happily called themselves his fans, but later a lot of his stuff was soft and mushy so people began to fall away and therefore had no wish or right to call themselves fans.
Same with Jesus, if people fall away from him there's no way they can call themselves Christians, right Elv?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Same with Jesus, if people fall away from him there's no way they can call themselves Christians, right Elv?

I think the scriptures are very plain about that.

"if we deny Him, He will also deny us;13if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." 2 Timothy 2:12-13
​

We'll see what Emerson has to say about it.