What is "Parousia"?

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Ronald Nolette

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Quit the playing around already - you either believe God's words or you make excuses and compromise them.

While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. These things must happen, but the end is still to come.
Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Then they will deliver you over to be persecuted and killed, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
At that time many will fall away and will betray and hate one another, and many false prophets will arise and mislead many.


Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.

At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance.

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
And I agree 100% with the passage you cited.

And I don't compromise4 gods Word! But if you insist on taking everything to the extreme limit we need to end here. YOu need to qjui the histrionics and learn how to converse civilly.
 

David in NJ

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And I agree 100% with the passage you cited.

And I don't compromise4 gods Word! But if you insist on taking everything to the extreme limit we need to end here. YOu need to qjui the histrionics and learn how to converse civilly

TRUTH = God has not appointed us to wrath

You believe in a very popular doctrine called pre-trib rapture.

i asked you to bring forth the scripture that states exactly what you believe = pre-trib rapture for the Church BEFORE His Second Coming

You responded with a falsehood = "wrath is always referred to the tribulation"

To which you were given the clear and undeniable Truth of what the LORD and the Apostles said:
a.) tribulation is not God's wrath upon Believers
b.) tribulation is in and of the world/satan
c.) tribulation works in us Blessing producing patience and perserverance

Now, you have yet to respond in a civil manner with scripture that proves you are either in the Truth or perhaps, believing a lie........

Matthew chapter 24 does not state a 'pre-trib' rapture BUT the complete OPPOSITE

1 Thessalonians does not state a 'pre-trib' rapture but the complete OPPOSITE
 
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Ronald Nolette

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You responded with a falsehood = "wrath is always referred to the tribulation"
Now you are lying! THE wrath is always part of THE trib.
You responded with a falsehood = "wrath is always referred to the tribulation"

We suffer general
You believe in a very popular doctrine called pre-trib rapture.

i asked you to bring forth the scripture that states exactly what you believe = pre-trib rapture for the Church BEFORE His Second Coming

tribulation- but there is a specific TRIBULATION we will be delivered from just as Paul said in Thess.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Matthew chapter 24 does not state a 'pre-trib' rapture BUT the complete OPPOSITE

1 Thessalonians does not state a 'pre-trib' rapture but the complete OPPOSITE
I(f that is what you believe fine! Matt. 24 does not speak to the rapture at all.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Why you inserted tribulations in here is beyond me. I have been speaking of only one tribulation- that is the 70 th week of Daniel or the last 7 years before Je3sus physically returns.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The church will never endure the wrath of God poured out upon this earth.
 

David in NJ

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Now you are lying! THE wrath is always part of THE trib.


We suffer general


tribulation- but there is a specific TRIBULATION we will be delivered from just as Paul said in Thess.

Be careful friend, calling me a liar is bearing false witness and you should never do that unless you have irrefutable evidence.

You believe, that THE tribulation is always God's wrath = to which the Holy Spirit says: that is a lie

the Holy Spirit clearly says: "For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 5:9

God has His Saints living on earth during THE tribulation - Revelation 12:10-13

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

God has His Saints living on earth during THE tribulation - Revelation 13:5-9

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Be careful who you are calling a liar for i stand with God and HE with me.
 
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David in NJ

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I(f that is what you believe fine! Matt. 24 does not speak to the rapture at all.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Why you inserted tribulations in here is beyond me. I have been speaking of only one tribulation- that is the 70 th week of Daniel or the last 7 years before Je3sus physically returns.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The church will never endure the wrath of God poured out upon this earth.
READ Post 405
 

Ronald Nolette

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Be careful friend, calling me a liar is bearing false witness and you should never do that unless you have irrefutable evidence.

You believe, that THE tribulation is always God's wrath = to which the Holy Spirit says: that is a lie

the Holy Spirit clearly says: "For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."
1 Thessalonians 5:9

God has His Saints living on earth during THE tribulation - Revelation 12:10-13

Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

God has His Saints living on earth during THE tribulation - Revelation 13:5-9

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

If anyone has an ear, let him hear. He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Be careful who you are calling a liar for i stand with God and HE with me.
Well forgive me Pope David. I am amazed you reach down from your lofty stature to talk to me. But I have the Holy Spirit as well!

And THE tribulation is the wrath of God poured out on an unbelieving world and to prepare Israel to receive her Messiah People will be saved during that 7 year period, but they will not be part of the body of Christ- That started at Pentecost and ends at the rapure.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Be careful friend, calling me a liar is bearing false witness and you should never do that unless you have irrefutable evidence.

You believe, that THE tribulation is always God's wrath = to which the Holy Spirit says: that is a lie
Well you lied about my words so that makes your statements lies!

The Tribulation is gods wrath= that specific 7 year period, why you cannot see that in the Scriptures is a troubling mystery.

There are not multiple "great tribulations" but only one and it is Gods specific wraths
 

David in NJ

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Well you lied about my words so that makes your statements lies!

The Tribulation is gods wrath= that specific 7 year period, why you cannot see that in the Scriptures is a troubling mystery.

There are not multiple "great tribulations" but only one and it is Gods specific wraths

Not once did i lie about your words = STOP the false accusations.

God has His Saints in THE Tribulation therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be His Wrath.
God has clearly said His Saints are not appointed to wrath.

As expected = you choose to believe a lie and promote it over God's words.

Then you attack and falsely accuse those who love God and keep His word.

Changing what God has said to substantiate your belief is exactly what the Serpent did in the Garden.


Revelation 14:9-13
Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
 
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Ronald Nolette

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God has His Saints in THE Tribulation therefore it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be His Wrath.
God has clearly said His Saints are not appointed to wrath.
You need to red your bible more and stop relying on whatever it is you are. Yes there will be saints in the tribulation- but they are not part of the church, just like OT saints are not part of the church And Paul was writing to teh church and not saints in general.

All the saints in the trib get saved after the church is gone.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
 

David in NJ

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You need to red your bible more and stop relying on whatever it is you are. Yes there will be saints in the tribulation- but they are not part of the church, just like OT saints are not part of the church And Paul was writing to teh church and not saints in general.

All the saints in the trib get saved after the church is gone.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
WOW
 
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David in NJ

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Yes Pope David. We know you think you have special standing with God. but every believer stands with God and God with them so you need to take a pin and pop your ego.
Every Believer is saved by the Blood of Christ and we are Loved by God more then we know - Amen
You are loved by God with an everlasting Love.
Standing with God means we do not add or take away from His words - we agree with them not argue against them.

Did God ever say "I will pre-trib rapture My Church"?

If you find it in Scripture please let me know - just do not add to His words what He did not say.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

If you cannot - please take a pin and pop that balloon
 
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amigo de christo

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Yes Pope David. We know you think you have special standing with God. but every believer stands with God and God with them so you need to take a pin and pop your ego.
Since you brought up the word pope i gotta warn . Let no man , woman or child follow them popes .
And beware francis for that pope is dangerous . Look you made mention of he word pop and ego . Put
the e after the second p and then seperate the word and you got , POPE GO . and that is exactly what i say too .
Cause none need to follow that man peroid .
 

David in NJ

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You need to red your bible more and stop relying on whatever it is you are. Yes there will be saints in the tribulation- but they are not part of the church, just like OT saints are not part of the church And Paul was writing to teh church and not saints in general.

All the saints in the trib get saved after the church is gone.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

How are those who are Saved by the Blood of Lamb not part of His Body/ the Church?

Do you know of another gospel that i am unfamiliar with?
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Every Believer is saved by the Blood of Christ and we are Loved by God more then we know - Amen
You are loved by God with an everlasting Love.
Standing with God means we do not add or take away from His words - we agree with them not argue against them.

Did God ever say "I will pre-trib rapture My Church"?

If you find it in Scripture please let me know - just do not add to His words what He did not say.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

If you cannot - please take a pin and pop that balloon
I did you just will not accept it. Maybe the language doesn't suit you.