the church has no authority to create doctrine or change doctrine
the deposit of faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 are given to the church to teach and safeguard against all error
What is the importance of this prophecy
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the church has no authority to create doctrine or change doctrine
the deposit of faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 are given to the church to teach and safeguard against all error
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Prove from gods Word (not mans) that Mary was preserved from a sin nature and never committed a sin in her entire life.
I don't want rationalizations, slick religious philosophy, or vain writings. I want it from Scripture which is the churches ultimate authority on earth under God.
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well Rome certainly created and gotten rid of many doctrines over the centuries.
Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing
All the so called reformers were apart from Christ and his authority
All the so called reformers were apart from Christ and his authority
Gen 3:15 - And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
none of satans works are found in Mary
Lk 1:28 - And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry but that verse doesn't mean that and you SHOULD know that! Gen. 3 is the hatred between satan and eve who is the mother of all living.
And while it mostly refers to Eve, it also refers to Mary and Je3sus. Not because Mary is sinless, but she bore the Messiah.
And grace is unmerited favor not a sinless life.
Try again.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
nonsense Eve was in joined to Satan in sin
Mary is the woman who seed is Christ
Mary is full of grace the adversary of Satan you can see it in rev 12
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Rev. 12 is Israel, it is the same vision that Joseph had referring to the nation of Israel.
So you contend God never forgave Eve for her sin. NONSENSE!
Yes Mary is the woman whose seed is Christ. Because only Jesus was born without a human father. (man not woman carries the seed!)
So your contention that Mary is the symbolic woman of REv. 12. OKAY then provide these facts.
1. When did MAry flee into the wilderness and was fed for 3 1/2 years
2. When did Satan get kicked out of heaven from a war with Michael?
3. When did Satan specifically persecute MAry?
4. When did Mary get those symbolic wings where she was fed for 3 1/2 years.
5. When did the devil spew out that symbolic flood?
6. when did the earth swallow that symbolic flood and what is that symbolic flood?
7. Who were the remainder of Mary's seed if she was ever virgin as Rome falsely claims?
no the child is Jesus And Mary is His mother
spiritual is our mother and mother of our salvation the “throne of Grace”
Mary is our spiritual mother
Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!
Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.
Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!
The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!
Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!
Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Holy mother of God!
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
Throne of Divine a Grace!
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Following verses show there are thrones other than God’s throne!
2 Samuel 7:13
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Following verses show that God’s throne is described different than the throne of Grace!
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Acts 7:49
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Revelation 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 4:6
And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Revelation 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders:
With the throne of Grace none of these things are described!
The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!
We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!
Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!
Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
A Royal Greeting:
Both Mary and Joseph are of the royal house of David the king!
Jesus received the throne of His father king David! The king of heaven!
The mother of the king in the line of David is always queen, Mary is the queen of heaven and of the angels!
The angel is greeting His sovereign mistress and queen!
Full of grace vs 28
Found favor (grace and mercy) with God vs 30
Mary found the salvation lost by the first Adam. Lk 1:30
mother of our savior and our salvation
Lk 2:30
heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace for Christ merited all graces and Mary is His holy mother!
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Following verses show there are thrones other than God’s throne!
2 Samuel 7:13
He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Following verses show that God’s throne is described different than the throne of Grace!
Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Acts 7:49
Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Hebrews 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Revelation 4:4
And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Revelation 4:5
And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Revelation 4:6
And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Revelation 5:11
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders:
With the throne of Grace none of these things are described!
The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!
We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!
Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!
Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
A Royal Greeting:
Both Mary and Joseph are of the royal house of David the king!
Jesus received the throne of His father king David! The king of heaven!
The mother of the king in the line of David is always queen, Mary is the queen of heaven and of the angels!
The angel is greeting His sovereign mistress and queen!
Full of grace vs 28
Found favor (grace and mercy) with God vs 30
Mary found the salvation lost by the first Adam. Lk 1:30
mother of our savior and our salvation
Lk 2:30
heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace for Christ merited all graces and Mary is His holy mother!
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
It is amazing you can quote Scripture to prove Eve is the mother of all living. but when ypou you try to prove Mary is the Spiritual mother- you resort to human logic, semi-true conclusions and , vain philosophy.
You allegorize Scriptures to make them say something they don't to try to prove a hypotheses the Scripture doesn't say, but your Roman logic believes.
that is type that is fulfilled by Mary
Mother of the living
How much more are they alive in Christ in the new creation?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Wrong again. That is you drawing a conclusion about realities and then spiritualizing them to force them to mean Mary so you can worship her as Queen of Heaven. which makes her ruler over Jesus as He has not yet become King of Kings and is still High priest interceding for the saved.
God alone is adored!
Jesus Christ is the high priest (so there must be low priests) and only mediator and savior!
Christ is king so Mary must be queen
mother of our salvation
Cos Jesus is our salvation Lk 2:30 and Mary is His mother
And cos she found our salvation Lk 1:30
And consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
According to my old Catholic catechism there are numerous prayers of adoration to Mary.
Jesus is not yet King but acting in His role as High priest! when He physically returns He will be king over all the earth!
God spoke to me and I consented to our salvation does that make me co-king of heaven with Jesus?
If all you hypothesize without empirical proof is true- Why did not God write it down in His Word so there would not be any question? Instead you have to draw elongated conclusions from simple statements by using human reason, instead of Scripture.
Mary did not find our salvation- Jesus did that on the cross! when He handed over His mother to his most trusted disciple (to obey the law) His mother so He could die as teh lamb of God and not the son of Mary.
Mary gave the savior to the world
Mary consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Lk 1:30 found favor with God
Our salvation lost by Adam and Eve
what old catechism
he is king now Lk 1:32-33 dan 2:44
Matt 16:18
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Titled Catechism of the Catholic Faith from 1969
Consenting to our salvation gives her no advantage
Noah found favor with god, Abrahm did , David did, I have! So???
No Jesus is currently everliving to make intercession for us. He is still in His high priest office.
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Luke one is still future. Unless you believe Jesus is a failed king.
Dan. 2 Has also not yet happened. The kingdom on earth god establishes comes during the reign of the ten kings from which the antichrist rises! No kingdom on earth yet.
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