What is the purpose of being born in bodies of earthly flesh?

[Paul Christensen]

You are correct again.

Dust is not 'rocks and minerals' or whatever. Dust is DNA and DNA begins as Spiritual Seed.

This next verse tells us what the 'Clay' is that we are made from...

Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay"

Clay is the Seed of Men. It is DNA.

It is the Word of God...

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God"

The Word of God (Spiritual) became Flesh (Physical).

More twisting the word of God to mean what you want it to mean. Further heresy.

 

[Base12]

This is effectively adding to the text of the narrative and reading stuff into it to suit your own views. This amounts to heresy.

Yawn. Adults are having a conversation here. How about you go watch the Disney channel or something?

When you learn to post verses and backup your claims, then we can talk some more.

Spewing insults isn't going to help you win the debate.

 

[Base12]

More twisting the word of God to mean what you want it to mean. Further heresy.

Wow. Another dose of DERP.

Go to bed already.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yawn. Adults are having a conversation here. How about you go watch the Disney channel or something?

When you learn to post verses and backup your claims, then we can talk some more.

Spewing insults isn't going to help you win the debate.

Heresy is the twisting of Scripture to mean something different to what is actually written, to adapt it to your own personal view, to assume that you know more than God does about his purpose in revealing to Moses how He created the world. You have the right to put your point of view, and it is my right to call it heresy. If you don't like it, too bad, how sad!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Wow. Another dose of DERP.

Go to bed already.

If you want me to go away, put me on ignore. Then you won't have to endure me responding to your non-Biblical views.

 

[Giuliano]

"1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

I see you have carefully missed out parts of the verse that don't suit your dogmatic view. Mmmm...

So in taking away from the written Scripture to try and prove your point, you have gone into heresy, and therefore your post is false in every other part.

Instead of chiding me, why don't you explain for us all why God did not "see it was good" on Day 2 and why He did not "see it was good" after He made man? Do make an effort to make more sense. I didn't take anything away. You added to it.

 

[mjrhealth]

It really is so simple, God made an earthen vessel out of clay, into which he put our spirit, just as in the old days they put wine into clay vessels to protect the wine, doesnt matter what happens to the vessels, how dirty it gets, scratches, bumps, marks, distortion, its there to protect the content. And when the time comes, the bung is removed the spirit / wine released and the vessel, of no use any longer, is discarded.

 

[Giuliano]

Exactly.

I believe Adam and Eve were Soul and Spirit only. No Covering as of yet. The word 'Naked' meant they weren't 'clothed' with a complete Tabernacle yet...

2 Corinthians 5:2
"For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven"

I partly agree. I think they were clothed in light -- white light like Easter lilies. When they ate the forbidden fruit, the light went out. Thus the Jews say light left the world through a woman and will return through a woman. That is why the women light the Sabbath candles.

I would say yes.

In fact, I believe what Adam and Eve experienced was the Second Death as mentioned in the Book of Revelation.

That is why God had to clothe them with 'Skins' and give them a body. It was a form of Resurrection in order to be able to live on the 'Physical Earth' that was created during the Fall.

In other words, the Spiritual Earth 'fell' into a lower state of Physical Matter.

The Flaming Sword and Cherubim are a foreshadow of the Lake of Fire. Adam and Eve had to 'pass through the fire' to the other side.

The cherubim for me represent four aspects of a man. I believe two fell and two did not. Fire (Leo the lion) and air (Aquarius the man) did not fall; but water (Scorpio or Aquila the eagle) and earth (Taurus the bull) did. The higher unfallen aspects of man took action to prevent the lower aspects from taking on an eternally fallen state by forbidding access to the Tree of Life.

You pretty much have it.

The only thing I would change is that their Soul died and not the Spirit. More specifically, their Soul was destroyed as per this verse...

Matthew 10:28
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell"

Again, the Flaming Sword was a picture of the Lake of Fire. Adam and Eve were 'driven out'. In other words, they went unwillingly, with gnashing of teeth probably.

It's "water and earth" or "soul and body" which can be destroyed in hell. To be sure.

Oh and since you Giuliano are an open minded person, you can replace the word Resurrected in my post to Reincarnation in order to understand it better.

Thus...

Adam and Eve were passed through the Lake of Fire (Flaming Sword and Cherubim) and were Reincarnated onto a Physical Earth.

Since there was no Mother to be Reincarnated from, God had to give Adam and Eve their 'Skins' or Physical Bodies himself.

Or did a prior race of humans already exist and Adam and Eve entered physical bodies? Cain, Abel, and Seth were also more spiritual than the next generations -- only with Enos can we be confident he was a "carnal human" as we think of them since his name indicates as much.

 

[Giuliano]

You are correct again.

Dust is not 'rocks and minerals' or whatever. Dust is DNA and DNA begins as Spiritual Seed.

This next verse tells us what the 'Clay' is that we are made from...

Daniel 2:43
"And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay"

Clay is the Seed of Men. It is DNA.

It is the Word of God...

Luke 8:11
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God"

The Word of God (Spiritual) became Flesh (Physical).

Again, I go "yes" and "no." The "dust" is not the DNA itself -- it is what controls the DNA. Spiritual dust can also be called "salt." Now physical salt cannot lose its savor -- so when Jesus talked about salt losing its savor, he wasn't talking about physical salt. I think he was talking about spiritual dust. Salt has interesting properties. If you drop the smallest crystal into a supersaturated solution that contains sodium and chlorine ions, it acts in a way you could call intelligent. It attracts those ions to itself and builds a larger crystal.

I think the spiritual dust God collected from around the world was "dead" so to speak. It had the potential for life however. Plant the smallest alive seed and it could attract the "dead dust" and bring it back to life, organizing it into life. Using DNA is just one way it can do this on the physical level. It also builds up a spiritual body on the spiritual plane.

Abraham was told two things that seem contradictory about his "seed." One was that they would be a numerous as the grains of sand and two they would be as numerous as the stars. Which is it? Small humble grains of sand or glorious shining stars? It's both, of course! The smallest alive spiritual seed can grow and grow -- and eventually attain the splendor of a star in Heaven. (Then shall the righteous shine like the stars. . . )

Matter can be deconverted from being "dead" matter into life. Some think Jesus was exaggerating when he said God could raise up sons of Abraham out of stones -- oh, but that is what God is already doing.

 

[Giuliano]

More twisting the word of God to mean what you want it to mean. Further heresy.

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Did you miss verse 31? What does "all" mean?

 

[Giuliano]

It really is so simple, God made an earthen vessel out of clay, into which he put our spirit, just as in the old days they put wine into clay vessels to protect the wine, doesnt matter what happens to the vessels, how dirty it gets, scratches, bumps, marks, distortion, its there to protect the content. And when the time comes, the bung is removed the spirit / wine released and the vessel, of no use any longer, is discarded.

But why? Life can be filled with suffering. Why would God do it this way?

 

[Paul Christensen]

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

Gosh darn the blankety heck! I don't know where my matches are!

 

[Giuliano]

Did you miss verse 31? What does "all" mean?

Of course I didn't miss it. I even referred to it. Stop pretending I didn't. I begin to feel sorry for you since you're making yourself look dim witted.

I'll say it again. When God saw everything He had made, He saw it was very good. That included man, the serpent and the Tree of Good and Evil. It does not mean that man by himself was good. It means when everything was seen together as a whole, it was very good.

Why not 'fess up and admit Genesis does not have God looking at man and seeing he was good? It doesn't say that. It says that about many other things, but not about the division of waters, the firmament or man. Now ask yourself why Genesis repeats the phrase so many times? According to your way of thinking, Moses wasted words by repeating the phrase -- once would have been enough. Moses was not wasting words. He wanted us to see that that most of the things God saw were good as soon as they were made. He omitted the phrase twice to make a point.

Then when Moses uses the phrase "very good," that tells us something else. It's more than "good."

 

[mjrhealth]

But why? Life can be filled with suffering. Why would God do it this way?

God didnt want robots, HE gave us free will so we could choose, some choose good some choose evil, No one will be able to say God forced them. God has no other way but this to prove His Love, even with all the suffering. Dont you think it hurts Him to see this madness, yet He still gives us choice, so great is His love for us.

 

[Giuliano]

Gosh darn the blankety heck! I don't know where my matches are!

Maybe your mother hid them?

 

[Giuliano]

God didnt want robots, HE gave us free will so we could choose, some choose good some choose evil, No one will be able to say God forced them. God has no other way but this to prove His Love, even with all the suffering. Dont you think it hurts Him to see this madness, yet He still gives us choice, so great is His love for us.

I agree with you but think there must be more to it.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Of course I didn't miss it. I even referred to it. Stop pretending I didn't. I begin to feel sorry for you since you're making yourself look dim witted.

I'll say it again. When God saw everything He had made, He saw it was very good. That included man, the serpent and the Tree of Good and Evil. It does not mean that man by himself was good. It means when everything was seen together as a whole, it was very good.

Why not 'fess up and admit Genesis does not have God looking at man and seeing he was good? It doesn't say that. It says that about many other things, but not about the division of waters, the firmament or man. Now ask yourself why Genesis repeats the phrase so many times? According to your way of thinking, Moses wasted words by repeating the phrase -- once would have been enough. Moses was not wasting words. He wanted us to see that that most of the things God saw were good as soon as they were made. He omitted the phrase twice to make a point.

Then when Moses uses the phrase "very good," that tells us something else. It's more than "good."

So, if God looked at ALL His creation, including man, and saw that it was very good, then that is pretty clear to me. Actually it wasn't Moses himself who authored Genesis. It was the Holy Spirit who dictated it to him. So it was the same Holy Spirit who told you to "Repent, and your sins will be blotted out".

When God says that His whole creation is "very good", the fact that God says it, then it is as good as it gets. Moses didn't say it. He just recorded what God said.

By the way, put your little silver pistol away and stop sniping at me with personalised comments. This is about the issues concerning whether God was correct in what He said about creating the cosmos and the world in 6 24hr days and then saying that what He created was absolutely perfect.

If you can't continue discussing this without sniping at me, that ends our exchange because you will no longer have any credibility with me.

 

[Giuliano]

So, if God looked at ALL His creation, including man, and saw that it was very good, then that is pretty clear to me. Actually it wasn't Moses himself who authored Genesis. It was the Holy Spirit who dictated it to him. So it was the same Holy Spirit who told you to "Repent, and your sins will be blotted out".

When God says that His whole creation is "very good", the fact that God says it, then it is as good as it gets. Moses didn't say it. He just recorded what God said.

By the way, put your little silver pistol away and stop sniping at me with personalised comments. This is about the issues concerning whether God was correct in what He said about creating the cosmos and the world in 6 24hr days and then saying that what He created was absolutely perfect.

If you can't continue discussing this without sniping at me, that ends our exchange because you will no longer have any credibility with me.

Consider it ended. For some one who makes insulting and crude bathroom-type jokes about other denominations and claims it's humor, you have a very thin skin, don't you? You can dish it out and call it humor, but you can't take it when I say you're making yourself look dim witted. Then you start to whine like a baby; but maybe you really are dim witted. Did I say Moses "authored" Genesis? Yes, maybe you are stupid.

 

[Heart2Soul]

We read:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

That may seem easy to understand at first; but then why did Jesus talk about saving flesh?

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I don't think there's a real contradiction after I really thought about it, but it posed a problem for me when I first thought about the two verses put together. I'd curious about how other people here reconcile these two passages.

Flesh is physical....to live in a physical world and be able to interact with it you need to have a physical body.
And a spirit must use a physical body to operate through.
Our spirit already existed with God but when the fall happened it created confusion in many. God being a Sovereign God created a way to give us free will and choose who to serve. Him or Satan.
So he created our earthly bodies out if the dust of the earth (to give us a compatible environment) and put our spirit in this body and gave us free will (ability to think for ourselves).
So we are all going through the test of faith to believe in Him or reject.
I had a vision of this years ago and have shared it from time to time.
Well so that's my answer....what do you think?
BTW....I think it was @Base12 that pointed out the earth contains the same carbons as the human body...just in larger portions.