What makes you right?

[Phoneman777]

You know you are "right" when your beliefs give you the peace of God that passes all understanding. If you feel you have to strive with other people about what you believe... instead of simply stating it — there just might be something wrong.

Isn't it written somewhere that we have to "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints"?

 

[Willie T]

Isn't it written somewhere that we have to "earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints"?

Where did you get the idea that "earnestly contending" was arguing with people?

 

[Mayflower]

With all the different doctrines going around ,how do you know you right and everybody else is wrong?

I am definitely not omniscient nor ever claimed to be (though as a teenager it was obvious I was). But what I do know has been through a lot of study and prayer. If I find out I am wrong about some things, which I most likely will be, I will be able to say I never beat someone over the head with my ideas.

 

[n2thelight]

1 Thessalonians 5:21

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”

So how do you prove all things?I know it's through scripture ,yet some will take that same verse of scripture to mean something different.

 

[bbyrd009]

So how do you prove all things?I know it's through scripture ,yet some will take that same verse of scripture to mean something different.

then there will be more vv that need to be considered i think

 

[Phoneman777]

Where did you get the idea that "earnestly contending" was arguing with people?

IDK, Ephesians 5:11 KJV?

 

[Willie T]

IDK, Ephesians 5:11 KJV?

I think it is more along these lines:
Galatians 6:1 English Standard Version (ESV)
Bear One Another's Burdens

6 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

 

[Phoneman777]

I think it is more along these lines:
Galatians 6:1 English Standard Version (ESV)
Bear One Another's Burdens

6 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.

Both your verses and mine are applicable to faith contention.

Regarding Ephesians 5:11, there's a reason we're called "sheep"...stupid and easily exploited. That's why it's everyone's responsibility to sound the warning when the wolf is nearing the flock, whether by bearing the fangs of frontal assault or by wearing the sheep's clothing of false doctrine.

 

[Phoneman777]

So how do you prove all things?I know it's through scripture ,yet some will take that same verse of scripture to mean something different.

Isaiah 28:9-10 KJV.

The reason we get into trouble is that we fail to take into consideration ALL the verses that impact a subject before forming our spiritual propositions.

For instance, those who insist on the popular eschatological interpretation of an unbroken chain of continual activity on Earth by saying life goes on for another 7 years after the saints are raptured and then continues after that for the "1,000 year reign of the saints over the wicked on Earth", followed by the destruction of the wicked and subsequent eternal reign of the saints in the New Earth...

...fail to incorporate the many other verses which depict an Earth that is destroyed, empty, darkened, silent, and devoid of all life (except for Satan and his demons) which Earthly period follows the Second Coming...because there's no way to fit such a period of complete Earthly desolation into this scenario. However, Historicism satisfies all the Biblical criteria for end times.

 

[Enoch111]

However, Historicism satisfies all the Biblical criteria for end times.

If you are satisfied with fantasies. The Papacy becomes the Antichrist and Sunday worship becomes taking the mark of the Beast!

And everything literal becomes a metaphor. Thus the events of Revelation are misinterpreted as having already occurred in Church History. And then we had all the bogus date setting and back-tracking after those *prophets* were found to be pretenders.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you are satisfied with fantasies. The Papacy becomes the Antichrist and Sunday worship becomes taking the mark of the Beast!

And everything literal becomes a metaphor. Thus the events of Revelation are misinterpreted as having already occurred in Church History. And then we had all the bogus date setting and back-tracking after those *prophets* were found to be pretenders.

Yes, much of what is the most symbolic book to ever be written in history - the book of Revelation - is historic...unless you're waiting for a literal seven headed beast to arise out of the sea, and a war that wipes out literally one third of mankind.

Insisting that the events of the book of Revelation stopped unfolding in chapter 3 and will not continue to unfold until after the "rapture" 2,000+ years later makes no sense.

Daniel says the Little Horn arose among the ten horns of the fallen fourth beast, the Roman Empire. The Beast of Revelation 13 is IDENTICAL in description to the Little Horn. Yet, somehow the Beast of Revelation 13 did not arise as the papacy did out of the ashes of the fallen Roman Empire? Sorry, Jesuit Futurism is the misinterpretation.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you are satisfied with fantasies. The Papacy becomes the Antichrist and Sunday worship becomes taking the mark of the Beast!

And everything literal becomes a metaphor. Thus the events of Revelation are misinterpreted as having already occurred in Church History. And then we had all the bogus date setting and back-tracking after those *prophets* were found to be pretenders.

I'm curious to know how you reconcile all those verses that depict a period of an empty, destroyed, silent, darkened, completely uninhabitable Earth with the continuous, unbroken timeline of bustling activity as depicted by Jesuit Futurism?

 

[atpollard]

So what's a relevant scripture?

The whole paragraph or chapter a verse comes from is a good start, rather than just plucking a phrase out of its surrounding context to build a doctrine on the sand.

Here is an example that I encounter among some well meaning but biblically illiterate Pentecostal friends: “By His stripes we were healed ... note that it is in the past tense, so there is no reason for any Christian to suffer from any illness because God has already healed you.” (Go and read the phrase in the whole verse and the verse in the surrounding context and see if it changes the meaning from their assumptions.)

 

[Enoch111]

I'm curious to know how you reconcile all those verses that depict a period of an empty, destroyed, silent, darkened, completely uninhabitable Earth with the continuous, unbroken timeline of bustling activity as depicted by Jesuit Futurism?

I believe you are referring to Jeremiah 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

In the Olivet Discourse, the Lord said that these events would take place AFTER the Great Tribulation. And the apostle John was given the same vision as Jeremiah when he saw the opening of the sixth seal.
REVELATION 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

So this supernatural *shaking* of the heavens and the earth will occur just AFTER the Great Tribulation and just BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. All of this is yet future, since the Great Tribulation is triggered by the Abomination of Desolation (Mt 24), which also means that the coming of the Antichrist is in the future (perhaps not too far down the road).

 

[Phoneman777]

So this supernatural *shaking* of the heavens and the earth will occur just AFTER the Great Tribulation and just BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. All of this is yet future, since the Great Tribulation is triggered by the Abomination of Desolation (Mt 24), which also means that the coming of the Antichrist is in the future (perhaps not too far down the road).

Doesn't Jeremiah and Isaiah say this destruction happens "at the presence of the Lord" when He comes "with fire" at the Second Coming?

Jesuit Futurism claims after the "secret rapture", life goes on 7 more years until the Jesuit Second Coming where the Lord and the saints all come down to Earth and rule over the wicked for 1,000 years, after which they are cast into hellfire, right? See? The Earth is NEVER empty, darkened, and devoid of life according to Jesuit Futurism. Always something going on down here.

 

[amadeus]

So how do you prove all things?I know it's through scripture ,yet some will take that same verse of scripture to mean something different.

The only proof needed is that which God writes in our heart and speaks to our ears. That others will disagree is a given. You don't need to know you are correct on every point. You only need to know God and follow Him. Leave the difficulties and differences to Him. Simply...

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

 

[farouk]

I am definitely not omniscient nor ever claimed to be (though as a teenager it was obvious I was). But what I do know has been through a lot of study and prayer. If I find out I am wrong about some things, which I most likely will be, I will be able to say I never beat someone over the head with my ideas.

Prayer and the Scriptures are what guide and alter our thinking continually, right?

 

[Enoch111]

Jesuit Futurism claims after the "secret rapture", life goes on 7 more years until the Jesuit Second Coming where the Lord

1. There is no such thing as "Jesuit Futurism". That is merely a straw man created by those who deliberately misinterpret prophecy.

2. Following the Rapture (which by necessity must be secret, since it is strictly for the saints of God) we will have the fulfillment of Daniel's 70th week.

3. The first 3 1/2 years will be the Tribulation period, whereas the second 3 1/2 years will be the Great Tribulation.

5. Following the Great Tribulation, the world will experience cataclysmic cosmic events -- the shaking of the heavens and the earth: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Mt 24:29)

6. Following this will be the Second Coming of Christ: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Mt 24:30)

The prophecy of Jeremiah will be fulfilled at the time of the shaking of the heavens and the earth, but since there will be people on earth after the second coming of Christ, there is no need to stretch the emptiness of the earth to the point that you are doing.

Since I already explained all this to you, you are now going around in circles to justify your FALSE ESCHATOLOGY, since without it you will be unable to beat up the Catholic Church.

 

[brakelite]

Where did you get the idea that "earnestly contending" was arguing with people?

I think the "argument" argument is only raised when people become devoid of an answer. If they have no valid response, the reply becomes, "I don't want to argue with you any more". It was never an argument until one party fails to come up with a valid case...until then it was a discussion.

 

[quietthinker]

I think the "argument" argument is only raised when people become devoid of an answer. If they have no valid response, the reply becomes, "I don't want to argue with you any more". It was never an argument until one party fails to come up with a valid case...until then it was a discussion.

Lol... I can relate wholeheartedly. There was a time a year or so ago where I was travelling 240 klms return on a motorcycle to participate in a fellowship. It meant getting back home late in the dark. One kind soul offered me floor space to stay over and travel back the next day...lovely! I took up the offer with my swag in tow. At Christmas some months later a discussion arose about the background and meaning of Xmas trees. What an animated discussion we had when suddenly out of the blue I was addressed by my host 'you can leave if you like.'
I was floored; being a bit confused as to what I had just heard the discussion continued. A minute or two later I was told again, 'you can leave if you like'
In that persons mind a robust discussion was interpreted as an argument and a threat to the current point of view to the point where my company was no longer desired.
It was food for thought and an insight into the fickle and unstable nature of humans.
Yes, I left.