What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?

[Big Boy Johnson]

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so it is applicable to those living under the New Covenant.

So how often do you sacrifice animals to cover your sin?

It's sad you reject the New Covenant and still cling to the old... the old cannot give anyone life so... eternity will be very hot and tormenting for those clanging to the old covenant. That's too bad for you.

I have not preached that we should do animal sacrifices

Then you are not following the Law of Moses... better hop to it
if you believe you are supposed to be following the Law of Moses.

It would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

And yet... people trying to live under the Law of Moses have fallen from grace and Jesus is no effect to them.

You failed to see where God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34


Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

You're claim is that all these scriptures are lies... which is a lie because they are Truth!

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law

That's false doctrine... according to Jesus!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Starting with John the Baptist going forward... the Gospel of the Kingdom is taught.

It's too bad you are either ignorant of what Jesus said, or you consider Him to be a liar... which is it?

Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin, so the Law of God is not the law of sin.

In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.

Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[Soyeong]

Mal 2:4-5
Heb 7:11-12

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same eternal character and therefore the same eternal laws for how to act in accordance with His character. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160). While God's covenants include instructions for how to act in accordance with His character, the way to act in accordance with God's character is straightforwardly based on God's character, not on any particular covenant, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do that are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. If the way to act in accordance with God's character were to ever change, then God's character would not be eternal, and the only way to abolish instructions for how to act in accordance with God's character would be by first abolishing God, so Hebrews 7:12 could not be referring to a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit murder or sinful to do charity, but rather the context is speaking in regard to a change of the priesthood, which would also require a change of the law in regard to is administration.

Heb 7:18-19

God's law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), but it doesn't make us perfect, but rather it is through faith in God that we are made perfect and obedience to God's law describes the life of someone who has been made perfect as it describes the life of Christ.

Luk 10:3-9

Jesus didn't say when you come to a house make sure you only eat clean and not unclean food.
Because it's not about the food set before you, it's about hospitality that comes from the heart.

Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is what Jesus sent the 72 out to spread, so the people who would have received them and the Gospel of the Kingdom are not people who would have served them unclean animals.

Rom 14:14-23

The topic of Romans 14 is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow God's commands, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as promoting rebellion against God. For example, in Romans 14:1-3, they were judging and resenting each other based on whether someone chose to eat only vegetables even though God gave no command to eat only vegetables. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to break the Sabbath, commit murder, adultery, rape, theft, idolatry, kidnapping, and so forth just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to disputable matters of opinion in which God has given no command.

The Bible is consistent in its use of "akatharto" and "koinos" and does not use those words interchangeably, for example, in Acts 10:15, Peter used both words to describe what he had never eaten when he could have just used one if they had had the same meaning and God only rebuked him for his use of the word "koinos", but not his use of the word "akatharto", yet his vision is commonly interpreted as though he had used the word "akatharto" as you are interpreting Romans 14:14. While they both refer to a type of defilement, it is equivocating to translate them both into English as "unclean" and leads to confusion on the topic.

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law, so whatever is in disobedience to it is not of faith, in Romans 14:23, whatever is not of faith is sin, and in 1 John 3:4, whatever is in disobedience to it is sin.

Col 2:20-23

Paul clearly described what he was speaking against in Colossians 2:20-23 as being the commandments and doctrines of men, which means that those verses should not be interpreted as speaking against the commandments of God

When one is baptised into Christ, the old ways are dead to us, behold , all things become new.
2Co 5:17

We are translated from the law under Moses to the Law of Christ.
The law of Moses could not make anything perfect, only the law of Christ can, because it is of faith and not of works.
Now the works of the law under Moses are those which apply to the flesh and the carnal minded. Eat, drink, wash, clean/unclean...
The works of the law of the spirit of Christ are those which come from the heart. Charity, Hospitality, Kindness, Hope, Mercy.....

Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what Christ taught.

God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions while the position that God's instructions are untrustworthy or not of faith is the position that denies the trustworthiness and faithfulness of God.

In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have carnal minds who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as carnal that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. After all, the Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God.

Will God judge my hospitality, or your refusal to eat according to Moses law?

There are a number of laws that appear to contradict each other, such as when God command priests to rest of the Sabbath while also commanding priests to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), however, it was not the case that priests were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why Jesus defended his disciples as being innocent. Likewise, this is why it permitted to circumcise a baby on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath, why it is permitted to get an ox or a child out of a pit on the Sabbath, and why it was permitted for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath.

So there is debate about which commands are greater, such as Jews often giving weight to hospitality, to the preservation of life, or to avoiding embarrassing someone one, and indeed God judges the heart in situations where obeying one command is given priority over another. However, just eating pork in itself is something that is sinful. The law of liberty is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin.

2 Corinthians chapter 3.

In regard to 2 Corinthians 3:6, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending the Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and there are many like Deuteronomy 30:11-20 that repeatedly states that obedience to the Mosaic Law brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, which Romans 10:5-8 references as the word of faith that we proclaim, so if we are to uphold the truth of the entire Bible, then we need to interpret what Paul meant by saying that the letter brings death in a way that is in accordance with these other verses rather than a way that contradicts them, and the same goes for the rest of the chapter.

In John 5:39-40, Jesus said that they diligently searched the Scriptures because they thought that in them they might find eternal life, and they testify about him, yet they refuse to come to him that they might have eternal life. Jesus also said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17), so eternal life can be found in the Scriptures and they were correct to search for it, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Christ, which is eternal life (John 17:3), and this is what the veil was preventing them from seeing. However, it is a veil that works both ways by preventing those who reject the Mosaic Law from seeing the same thing. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him.

 

[Soyeong]

Can you show me in the bible where we are to obey God only as we are able??????????????? And as that part of the Mosaic law concerning menstruation was directed at woman, of course.

Should we list all 613 and see which ones you feel you are not able to obey? Please tell me where god said only to obey the ones we are able (outside ofcourse the direct commands to opposite sex.)

I gave some examples, so I'm not sure why you are ignoring them. Likewise, in 2 Chronicles 30:15-20, Hezekiah prayed for God to pardon everyone who sets his heart to seek God even through they were not acting according to the sanctuary's rules of cleanness and the Lord heard his prayer and healed the people.

Some of the laws were only given to the king, such as in Deuteronomy 17:18, the king was commanded to write for himself a copy of the Torah. Other laws were given only for the High priest, priests, judges, men, women, children, widows, those who are married, those have servants, those who have animals, those who have crops, those who have tzaraat, those who are living in the land, and those who are strangers living among them, while others were given to everyone. A large portion of the 613 laws were given to govern the conduct of the Levities, which non-Levities were not able to do.

And they had to be circumcised and commit to obey the Mosaic Law. they did not become Jews, they became proselytes

Then you agree that we should obey the Mosaic Law? Someone can't follow the God of Israel while refusing to follow His instructions for how to know, love, worship, believe in, and testify about Him.

So you believe Jesus made a mistake when He told Peter He WILL BUILD HIs church. If the church already existed, He would have said, "keep building", keep adding" or some such phrase. Jesus was not sloppy with grammar and needed our editing skills.

No, I believe Jesus told Peter that he will rebuild his church, which was in accordance with prophecy, and that it is an theologically driven error of translators to translate it as Jesus telling Peter that he will build his church. Again, in Acts 15:15-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles as being in fulfillment of the prophecy in regard to rebuilding David's fallen tent, not as being a brand new entity that was separate from Israel.

So by the use of the word ekklesia you believe it refers to the church. Okay so when secular greek writers wrote of ekklesia- they were always referring to the church.

I did not claim that "ecclesia" should always be translated as referring to the church.

Paul said the 10 commandments did not minister life, but death.!!!!!

In Romans 10:5-8, it references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So Mosaic Law is a ministration of life for those who choose to obey it and the fact that it is a ministration of death for those who refuse to obey it is not a very good reason to refuse to obey it.

1 Corinthians 15:56

Sin gets its strength to act from the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Romans 7:13

The law makes sin exceeding sinful!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law, so it is important to correctly identify which law he was speaking about. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, he contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted a law that our faith upholds with a law that is not of faith.

In Romans 7, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that he wanted to do good, but that there was a law of sin that was working in his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 7:22-23, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contorted that with the law of sin that held him sinful, so verses that refer to something that would be absurd for Paul to delight in doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God, such as the ones that you cited. In Romans 7:7, Paul said that the Law of God is not sinful, but his how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to increase. However, in Romans 7:5, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin rather than to the Law of God, such as Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:13, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:56.

Galatians 3:10

Those who submit themselves to the Mosaic Law are under the curse!!!!!!!!

No, it says that everyone who does not continue to obey the Book of the Law is under a curse.

Romans 4:1-5​

Our righteousness is not based on obeying the law, but faith alone in Jesus!!!!!!!

While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our obedience to God's law, he also said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be declared righteous, so there must be a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obeying God's word alone is the way to have faith alone in Jesus and it is contradictory to have faith in Gods word made flesh instead of having faith in God's word.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you submit to the law, you have fallen from grace!!!!!!

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Jesus began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace and it would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so Jesus is not the end of the law, but rather knowing him is the goal of the law.

My righteousness has nothing to do with my works, but Jesus is my righteousness. And all other who trust Him and not the deeds of the law for anything.

For someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of that trait, so for someone to be courageous means that they are a doer of courageous works and for someone to be righteous means that they are a doer of righteous works. The only way to attain a character trait is through faith that we ought to be doers of it apart from being required to have have first been a doer of it for a certain amount as if character traits could be earned as a wage. So there are not amount of courageous works that someone is required to have done first in order to earn that trait as a wage, but rather the way for someone to become courageous is by faith that they ought to be a doer of courageous works and the same goes for the way to become righteous.

The way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be doers of His character traits. For example, our good works in obedience to God's law testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. So the way to believe that God is just is by following His instructions for how to be doers of His justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by following His instructions for how to be holy as if He is holy, and so forth. It is contradicting to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions.

 

[Soyeong]

So how often do you sacrifice animals to cover your sin?

It's sad you reject the New Covenant and still cling to the old... the old cannot give anyone life so... eternity will be very hot and tormenting for those clanging to the old covenant. That's too bad for you.

Again, we are not required to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them. I have not suggest that we should cling to the Mosaic Covenant, but rather I have been speaking about the way to live under the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17), and there are many other verses that repeatedly say that it is the way to have eternal, but you prefer to judge me instead of believing what the Bible says.

Then you are not following the Law of Moses... better hop to it
if you believe you are supposed to be following the Law of Moses.

It is not surprise that you don't seem to care that your gotcha doesn't work the way you want it to.

And yet... people trying to live under the Law of Moses have fallen from grace and Jesus is no effect to them.

And yet it continue to be completely absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4.

You failed to see where God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34


Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

You're claim is that all these scriptures are lies... which is a lie because they are Truth!

I agree that we are under the New Covenant and have said nothing contrary to those verses.

That's false doctrine... according to Jesus!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Starting with John the Baptist going forward... the Gospel of the Kingdom is taught.

It's too bad you are either ignorant of what Jesus said, or you consider Him to be a liar... which is it?

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus spoke about continuing to be preached since John. Furthermore, in Luke 16:17, Jesus said that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the least part to pass from the Mosaic Law, an in Luke 16:18, Jesus continue to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law. I am neither ignorant of what Jesus said, nor to I consider him to be a liar, but rather you have clearly misunderstood what he said.

In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

Paul was a servant of God, so he should not be interpreted as promoting rebellion again him, though the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that Paul said than to disregard anything that God has said, though the reality is again that Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against obeying anything that God said.

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

The Law of God was given by God, the Spirit is God, so the way to walk by the Spirit is not by refusing to obey the Law of the Spirit. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who are in Christ with those who have carnal minds who are enemies of God who refuse to obey His law. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of Christ with the Law of God.

Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB). If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

It says that the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law, which I am saying that you should obey, but you reject. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following God's law, but you reject God's law.

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so if Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have sinned and therefore disqualified himself as our Savior, though the reality is that everything he taught was thoroughly rooted in the OT.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, I believe Jesus told Peter that he will rebuild his church, which was in accordance with prophecy, and that it is an theologically driven error of translators to translate it as Jesus telling Peter that he will build his church. Again, in Acts 15:15-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles as being in fulfillment of the prophecy in regard to rebuilding David's fallen tent, not as being a brand new entity that was separate from Israel.

But rebuilding is not what Jesus said. YOu are now altering the word of God!

For someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of that trait, so for someone to be courageous means that they are a doer of courageous works and for someone to be righteous means that they are a doer of righteous works. The only way to attain a character trait is through faith that we ought to be doers of it apart from being required to have have first been a doer of it for a certain amount as if character traits could be earned as a wage. So there are not amount of courageous works that someone is required to have done first in order to earn that trait as a wage, but rather the way for someone to become courageous is by faith that they ought to be a doer of courageous works and the same goes for the way to become righteous.

Well according to mans vain philosophy, but according to God and His Word, my righteousness is Jesus and not my deeds. My deeds show I am already righteous because of the blood of Jesus.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so Jesus is not the end of the law, but rather knowing him is the goal of the law.

You are very close! Jesu sfulfilled the law and rendered it moot. Jesus is the goal of the law, so when I know Jesus I have reached the goal and no longer need the school teacher.

The way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be doers of His character traits. For example, our good works in obedience to God's law testify about God's goodness, which is why they give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words, we are believing in Him. So the way to believe that God is just is by following His instructions for how to be doers of His justice, the way to believe that God is holy is by following His instructions for how to be holy as if He is holy, and so forth. It is contradicting to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions.

now you are speaking of religion and not faith. Gods goodness testifies to Gods goodness. the law was never given to make any one righteous, keep one righteous etc. The law was given to drive Israel to Jesus.

 

[Soyeong]

But rebuilding is not what Jesus said. YOu are now altering the word of God!

No, I am not altering the word of God, but rather I am saying that it would be more accurate to translate the word that Jesus used into English as "rebuild" rather than as "build".

Well according to mans vain philosophy, but according to God and His Word, my righteousness is Jesus and not my deeds. My deeds show I am already righteous because of the blood of Jesus.

For someone to have a character trait means to a doer of that trait. That is not philosophy, but is simply what words mean. It would be contradictory to say that someone is courageous who is not a doer of courageous works in the same way that it is contradictory for someone to be righteous who is not a doer of righteous works.

Jesus expressed his righteousness by being a doer of righteous works, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us. Jesus is the embodiment of God's word, so the way that he is our righteousness is by embodying God's word through following his example. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross.

You are very close! Jesu sfulfilled the law and rendered it moot.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning the same thing as abolishing it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as saying that by bearing one another's burdens we are rending the Law of Christ moot. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he then proceed to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. According to Galatians 5:4, anyone who has loved their neighbor has fulfilled the enter law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it and it refers to something that countless people of have done, not to making it moot.

Jesus is the goal of the law, so when I know Jesus I have reached the goal and no longer need the school teacher.

Knowing Jesus is about having an intimate relationship with him, not someone that is once and done. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did not know God and refused to know Him because in 9:13, they had forsaken His law, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, righteousness, and justice in all of the earth, so delighting in practicing those and other aspects of God's character is the way to know God, and the way to know the Son, who is the exact image of God's character (Hebrews 1:3). In 1 John 2:6, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commands are liars, in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to practice sin in transgression of God's law have neither seen nor know him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. So knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is the gift of eternal life (John 17:3).

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Galatians should not be interpreted a saying when we know Jesus we have reached the goal and can now go back to living in sin. A student does not move on to algebra by disregarding everything that they were taught about addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division.

now you are speaking of religion and not faith. Gods goodness testifies to Gods goodness. the law was never given to make any one righteous, keep one righteous etc. The law was given to drive Israel to Jesus.

Do you agree or deny that our good works bring glory to God? The Bible often uses the same terms to describe aspects of God's character as it does to describe aspects of the character of God's law, such as with it being holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), or with justice, mercy, and faithfulness being weightier maters of the law (Matthew 23:23), which is because it is God's instructions for how to act in accordance with His character, and it is through acting in accordance with God's character in obedience to His law that we have the experience of knowing Him. Likewise, God's way is the way that He practices aspects of His character such as righteousness and justice (Genesis 18:19), and there are many verses that describe God's law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such a 1 Kings 2:1-3, Isaiah 2:2-3, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others.

The way to attain the character traits of God is through faith that we ought to be doers of His character traits, which is what it means to believe in Him. So I agree that we do not become righteous as the result of having obeyed God's law, but rather the only way to become righteous is through faith. God's law leads us to Christ because testifies about how to know Him through acting in accordance with his character. In other words, God's word is His instructions for how to know God's word made flesh and we are not driven to God's word made flesh so that we can then reject God's word.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I have not suggest that we should cling to the Mosaic Covenant

Ah, trying to back peddle I see... you were saying earlier we are supposed to be
following the Law of Moses.... your indoctrination has caused you to be confused.

It is not surprise that you don't seem to care that your gotcha doesn't work the way you want it to.

Hey, you're the one trying to live under the Law of Moses, not me

And yet it continue to be completely absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4.

They got bible for cherry pickers now... you should get one!

I agree that we are under the New Covenant and have said nothing contrary to those verses.

Except for when you claim we are supposed to be living under the Law of Moses

and the Mosaic Law

No, Jesus did not teach the Law of Moses... He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom
which was not taught under the Law of Moses which could never bring life

Jesus continue to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law

False doctrine!

Paul was a servant of God who never spoke against obeying anything that God said.

The Lord continued His teaching ministry thru His Apostles and He never taught thru Paul that we should live under the Law of Moses. Those seeking to be justified thru the OT law... have fallen from grace and are not saved thru the work of Jesus as they go about establishing their own salvation thru works of their own.

Paul used a parallel statement to equate the Law of Christ with the Law of God

The Law of Moses is obsolete, debunked, and defunct... now that
Jesus Christ is our High Priest and has established the New Covenant.

It says that the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law, which I am saying that you should obey, but you reject. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following God's law, but you reject God's law.

Well you better get to sacrificing animals to cover yo sins... that's
what the Law of Moses calls for, so good luck with all that!

In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so if Jesus had done as you suggest, then he would have sinned and therefore disqualified himself as our Savior, though the reality is that everything he taught was thoroughly rooted in the OT.

Your refusal to accept God's Word shines thru loud and clear!

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

You claim to live under the house of Moses and reject the house of Jesus Christ.

You living in the wrong house homie!

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

You reject the New Covenant and walking with Jesus!

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And sadly you reject the Law of Christ preferring to instead live under the Law of Moses.

This ends badly... there's still time to change the road your on, but time is running out!

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[Soyeong]

Ah, trying to back peddle I see... you were saying earlier we are supposed to be
following the Law of Moses.... your indoctrination has caused you to be confused. View attachment 41372

You can't quote me as saying that we should cling to the Mosaic Covenant, but rather that is what you keep falsely accusing me of doing. The Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our mind and writing it o our hearts, so by saying that we should be followed the Mosaic Law I am speaking about how to live under the New Covenant.

Hey, you're the one trying to live under the Law of Moses, not me

You're the one whose criticism is unfounded.

They got bible for cherry pickers now... you should get one!

View attachment 41367

I accept the true of that verse, so I do not reject that verse, but rather I reject your absurd interpretation of it. It's funny how you want to accuse me of eliminating a verse that I don't like when you want to eliminate Jeremiah 31:33.

Except for when you claim we are supposed to be living under the Law of MosesView attachment 41373

That claim is not contrary to those verses, but rather it is in accordance with what Jeremiah 31:33 says about the New Covenant.

No, Jesus did not teach the Law of Moses... He taught the Gospel of the Kingdom
which was not taught under the Law of Moses which could never bring life

The Gospel of the Kingdom called for us to repent from our sins and the Mosaic Law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20). Jesus taught that obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to inherit eternal life (Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 19:17)

False doctrine!

I showed that it is true.

The Lord continued His teaching ministry thru His Apostles and He never taught thru Paul that we should live under the Law of Moses. Those seeking to be justified thru the OT law... have fallen from grace and are not saved thru the work of Jesus as they go about establishing their own salvation thru works of their own.

Paul taught the same Gospel as Jesus, which involved bringing Gentiles to obedience to the Mosaic Law in word and in deed (Romans 15:18-19). Paul also taught that we are not free to sin and that it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of wha sin is (Romans 3:20). I've claimed that we should obey the Mosaic Law, not that obeying it results in becoming justified. The way to rely on God for salvation is by obediently relying on what He has instructed, not by rejecting His instructions. Someone that we do on our own does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that relying on God's instructions is doing something on our own.

The Law of Moses is obsolete, debunked, and defunct... now that
Jesus Christ is our High Priest and has established the New Covenant.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). Jesus established the New Covenant, which involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).

Well you better get to sacrificing animals to cover yo sins... that's
what the Law of Moses calls for, so good luck with all that!

It does not call us to follow laws in regard to temple practice when there is no temple in which to practice them.

Your refusal to accept God's Word shines thru loud and clear! View attachment 41370

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

You claim to live under the house of Moses and reject the house of Jesus Christ.

I've not claimed that, so more false accusations.

You living in the wrong house homie! View attachment 41371

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

You reject the New Covenant and walking with Jesus!

The New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33), so you accuse me of rejecting it while you are actually the one who is rejecting it. Jesus walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so it is contradictory to walk with him while you are refusing to walk in the way that he walked.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And sadly you reject the Law of Christ preferring to instead live under the Law of Moses.

More false accusation. Christ taught his followers to walk in obedience to the Law of Moses by word and by example and you've given no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what Christ taught.

This ends badly... there's still time to change the road your on, but time is running out!

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

It should not make sense to you to interpret the authors of the Bible as speaking against obeying God and it should make even less sense to interpret them as doing that and then think that you should follow what you think they said instead of obeying God. The bottom line is that we should obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. In Deuteronomy 13:1-5, God did not give His people any room to follow anyone who speaks against obeying the Mosaic Law,. So indeed, there is still time to change the road that you are on, but time is running out.

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

You reject the New Covenant and walking with Jesus!

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Couldn't possibly be the same law.

Verses 16-18 of Hebrews 7 says the law that is being changed is carnal/fleshly, weak, and unprofitable:

Heb 7:16-18
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

But Romans 7 says that the law is spiritual, holy, just and good.

Rom 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Verse 14 even directly contrasts "spiritual" with "carnal," thoroughly impeaching the theory that Hebrews 7 is talking about the moral law being changed.

Are we really supposed to believe that "carnal" = "spiritual" and that "weak and unprofitable" = "holy, just, and good?"

I'm just reading the Bible here.

.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I showed that it is true.

You said "Jesus continue to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law" and that is in fact False doctrine!

Jesus specifically said He was teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (New Covenent) which is NOT teaching the Law of Moses (old covenant). You should cease from claiming Jesus lied in Luke 16:16

The Law of Moses is obsolete, debunked, and defunct... now that
Jesus Christ is our High Priest and has established the New Covenant.

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Soyeong]

You said "Jesus continue to teach how to obey the Mosaic Law" and that is in fact False doctrine!

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is what Jesus said was being preached since John, so not false doctrine.

Jesus specifically said He was teaching the Gospel of the Kingdom (New Covenent) which is NOT teaching the Law of Moses (old covenant). You should cease from claiming Jesus lied in Luke 16:16 View attachment 41381

I've just demonstrated that as false.

The Law of Moses is obsolete, debunked, and defunct...

That is still false because all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160)

now that
Jesus Christ is our High Priest and has established the New Covenant.

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33). For some reason you like to ignore Jeremiah 31:33, probably because it shows that your position is false.

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

I have not claimed that we earn our righteousness/justification as the result of having obeyed the Mosaic Law. That was never the goal of why we should obey the Mosaic Law and the fact that we do not earn our righteousness/justification as the result of obeying God does not mean that we aren't obligated to obey Him.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand

If what you said is true.. He would have actually said "repent for the Law of Moses is at hand"

I've just demonstrated that as false.

No, you just claimed Jesus Christ is a liar!

That is still false because all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160)

As we see in the New Covenant... the OT law is not applicable to Christians as we
live under the Law of Christ which is a higher standard than the Law of Moses...

So... you will continually rejecting the New Covenant as this is
what your handlers have indoctrinated you to do.

Jesus did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching by word or by example, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33). For some reason you like to ignore Jeremiah 31:33, probably because it shows that your position is false.

Did you not notice many differences between the old covenant and the New Covenant?

Jeremiah 31:33 does not say the Lord will write the Law of Moses upon their hearts... the Law of Christ is what is written upon the hearts of true believers who took the exit off of the highway to hell and now abide IN Christ following Jesus as their high priest instead of rejecting Jesus to try and have Moses as their high priest.

You want to live under the old covenant... go right ahead and see where that lands you.
It ends badly and ain't gonna be nuthin nice

I have not claimed that we earn our righteousness/justification as the result of having obeyed the Mosaic Law

You obviously believe the Lord requires you to keep the Law of Moses so you can be saved...

Galatians 5:4
Whoever are being justified in the Law, you are severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

 

[Soyeong]

If what you said is true.. He would have actually said "repent for the Law of Moses is at hand" View attachment 41389

How else do you think that his audience knew what they should be repenting from doing if not by the Mosaic Law? Do you think that Jesus was fine with them continuing to live in sin or that he wanted them to repent from sin?

As we see in the New Covenant... the OT law is not applicable to Christians as we
live under the Law of Christ which is a higher standard than the Law of Moses...

So... you will continually rejecting the New Covenant as this is
what your handlers have indoctrinated you to do.

The New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33), so you are again guilty of wha you accuse me of. You have yet to give any justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to the Mosaic Law. Even if it were true that Christ raised the bar to a higher standard than what the Law of Moses, then at the very least that would mean that we should obey the Law of Moses plus whatever else he raised the bar to.

Did you not notice many differences between the old covenant and the New Covenant?

Jeremiah 31:33 does not say the Lord will write the Law of Moses upon their hearts... the Law of Christ is what is written upon the hearts of true believers who took the exit off of the highway to hell and now abide IN Christ following Jesus as their high priest instead of rejecting Jesus to try and have Moses as their high priest.

Indeed, the New Covenant is based on better premises and has a superior mediator (Hebrews 8:6), but it still involves following the Mosaic Law (Hebrew 8:10), so that is not one of the differences. In Jeremiah 31:33, it uses to Hebrew word "Torah", which refers to the Mosaic Law, so if you'd prefer I can say that the New Covenant involves following the Torah, though either way you still reject the New Covenant. Christ set a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so those who refuse to walk in obedience to the Torah should not consider verses that speak about those who are in Christ to be referring to them.

You want to live under the old covenant... go right ahead and see where that lands you.

It ends badly and ain't gonna be nuthin nice View attachment 41391

Another false accusation.

You obviously believe the Lord requires you to keep the Law of Moses so you can be saved...

While it is not the case that we need to have first obeyed the Torah in order to earn our salvation as the result, our salvation requires us to obey it because having the experience of living in obedience to it is intrinsically part of the content of God's gift of salvation is. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Torah is how we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so having the experience of living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not having that experience. It is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation from sin while also thinking that they don't need to live in obedience to the Torah.

Galatians 5:4

Whoever are being justified in the Law, you are severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

I do not hold the position that we earn our justification as the result of obeying the Torah, which is that much more true that we do not earn it as the result of obeying works of the law. It shouldn't make sense to you to interpret parts of God's word as speaking against following other parts of God's word.

 

[Ziggy]

While it is not the case that we need to have first obeyed the Torah in order to earn our salvation as the result, our salvation requires us to obey it because having the experience of living in obedience to it is intrinsically part of the content of God's gift of salvation is. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and the Torah is how we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), so having the experience of living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically the content of the gift of Jesus saving us from not having that experience. It is contradictory for someone to think that they need salvation from sin while also thinking that they don't need to live in obedience to the Torah.

Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

You got it backwards.
The law brought Israel to faith in Christ because no one can keep all the law. The law does not justify, redeem, or save.
It condems. It kills. Because the law is not of faith it is of works. And works can't save you.
Our salvation requires us to live by faith in his sacrifice for us once and for all for all sin.
Our obedience is based on the spirit of the law written in our hearts and minds, not the law that God gave to Israel written with pen paper.
If you want to obey God then obey Jesus' commandments. This is my son, hear ye him.
And Jesus' commandments are not grevious or burdensome.

If you keep these 2 commandments: Thou shalt love God with all your heart, mind, and soul, and Love your neighbor as yourself, you have fulfilled the law.

We can't save ourselves from sin. This was proven through the law God gave Moses. Only Christ and faith in him can save us.

The Torah says... Listen to God. They didn't listen, they provoked him and made him angry. He gave them laws, they still didn't listen.
They broke the covenant many times. And still they didn't listen.
God said, I'm going to annul my covenant with Israel and install a new one. This covenant is based on FAITH and not on the LAW.

Under this new covenant God says... LISTEN. I have given my son as the ultimate sacrifice for your sins. All you need to do is believe in him and accept HIM as your savior. Walk in HIS Spirit which bares much fruit.. love, joy peace kindness, goodness, longsuffering, mercy, peace...
Walk this way.. this is the New Covenant. Let this LAW flow from your heart and your mind.

The Old law is gone it's been abolished, BEHOLD HE MAKES ALL THINGS NEW.

The reason why God gave Israel the law of Moses was so they wouldn't follow after the other idolatrous nations from which he had taken them from. They were to be seperate. A peculiar people, that the world would wonder after. Who are these people? And what are the customs that they do? It was a SIGN between God and Israel. But they kept following after the nations around them. They kept making idols for themselves. They kept forgetting God. They couldn't keep the law because they were a sinful people in their HEART.
No amount laws would be able to change their heart towards God. They only made themselves self-righteous by trying to keep what was impossible for them to keep. Because they had NO FAITH just WORKS.

I know where your coming from, I used to be where you are. Then God opened my mind and helped me understand the truth.
If you are not keeping the entire law, every jot and tittle of it, then you are guilty of ALL and condemned of ALL.
And you will never be justified by the works of the law.
You have to TRUST Jesus that he did ALL the Works for you. Your job is to believe and have faith in HIS Righteousness, not your own.

Your work is to bare good fruit. Your work is to Love God and Love your Neighbor. Your work is to be humble and greatful and loving and kind, even in the worst of times.
Your work is to trust God and not yourself.

Sin is not believing God. So Listen with your heart.
He who has ears to hear, let him hear what the spirit saith.

Only Christ can cleanse you, justify you, redeem you and save you. The law of Moses has been fulfilled in Christ.
He is our righteousness when we put our trust and faith in Him and the work he did for us.

We are to walk in Christ, not in the law of Moses.
Hugs

 

[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

And sadly you reject the Law of Christ preferring to instead live under the Law of Moses.

This ends badly... there's still time to change the road your on, but time is running out!

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

Is this how "the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)" works on people's hearts?

Yikes!

.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, I am not altering the word of God, but rather I am saying that it would be more accurate to translate the word that Jesus used into English as "rebuild" rather than as "build".

Not in the least! Jesus knows grammar and the translators knew which word Jesus was using. If rebuild was Jesus intention the Greek word would have been: "aanaoikodomeo" in the perfect active indicative, not "oikodomeo" in the future active indicative as is written. Jesus created language and the meaning of words so we could communicate. You are just wrong.

For someone to have a character trait means to a doer of that trait. That is not philosophy, but is simply what words mean. It would be contradictory to say that someone is courageous who is not a doer of courageous works in the same way that it is contradictory for someone to be righteous who is not a doer of righteous works.

Jesus expressed his righteousness by being a doer of righteous works, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us. Jesus is the embodiment of God's word, so the way that he is our righteousness is by embodying God's word through following his example. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross.

You are using philosophy instead of the bible to define righteousness. God first makes us righteous, then we learn how to walk in what God made us to be.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it or teaching others to relax it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning the same thing as abolishing it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as saying that by bearing one another's burdens we are rending the Law of Christ moot. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known through the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so after Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he then proceed to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. According to Galatians 5:4, anyone who has loved their neighbor has fulfilled the enter law, so again it refers to correctly obeying it and it refers to something that countless people of have done, not to making it moot.

YOu obviously do not know what the word fulfill means.

It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so Galatians should not be interpreted a saying when we know Jesus we have reached the goal and can now go back to living in sin. A student does not move on to algebra by disregarding everything that they were taught about addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division.

YOu are defining th enew by forcing the old upon it. that is what the Judaizers tried to do in Galatians. By saying we can go back to sin is making slanderous assumptions that are totally false.

 

[RedFan]

The law brought Israel to faith in Christ because no one can keep all the law.

Then I guess Paul lied when he claimed to be “blameless” under the Law, Phil. 3:6 – and I guess Luke was delusional when he wrote the same about Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:6).

 

[Ziggy]

Then I guess Paul lied when he claimed to be “blameless” under the Law, Phil. 3:6 – and I guess Luke was delusional when he wrote the same about Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:6).

Phl 3:2
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Phl 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Phl 3:4
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phl 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phl 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phl 3:7
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phl 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phl 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Phl 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Phl 3:18
(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phl 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Phl 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

 

[RedFan]

Phl 3:2
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
Phl 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Phl 3:4
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
Phl 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
Phl 3:6
Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Phl 3:7
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Phl 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Phl 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Phl 3:17
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Phl 3:18
(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Phl 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Phl 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Phl 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

I will trust that there is an answer to my concern in here somewhere . . . hope I can find it!

 

[Ziggy]

I will trust that there is an answer to my concern in here somewhere . . . hope I can find it!

verse 8