What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?

[Big Boy Johnson]

Is it your position that the commandments of God are the doctrines of demons?

Do YOU believe 1 Timothy 4:4,5 is a doctrine of demons???

Apparently you have not received the memo... we are NOT under the old covenant anymore... we be up under the New Covenant now with Jesus Christ as out High Priest

Did you not know and understand there are major differences between the old covenant... and the New Covenant???

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

It's sad to see those claiming we are still under the old covenant and we are supposed to be living under the Law of Moses

 

[JunChosen]

It's sad to see those claiming we are still under the old covenant and we are supposed to be living under the Law of Moses

What about the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God on two tablets of stone, are they still supposed to be obeyed, today? Seeing that you claim the Old Covenant is done away with??

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What about the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God on two tablets of stone, are they still supposed to be obeyed, today? Seeing that you claim the Old Covenant is done away with??

If you knew your Bible a little better... you would notice that 9 of the 10 are present in the New Testament under the Law of Christ... but, Saturday sabbath is not present because Jesus has provided a better REST than what was provided under the old covenant.

And, I'm not the one claiming the old covenant has been taken away... God's Word teaches this!

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Here's REST according to the New Covenant... is it's not speaking of keeping Saturday sabbath!

Hebrews 4:4-11
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6 tells us "to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief" so those living under the Law of Moses did not enter in to God's REST... even though they were observing Saturday sabbath!

What the Lord's Word is speaking of in Hebrews 4:8 is what we have under the New Covenant which is resting in faith IN Christ... not just one day a week, but ALL days.

Therefore Saturday sabbath does not meet the higher standards Jesus Christ has brought forth for His people in the New Covenant due to it';s better promises.

Maybe some day... the sabbatarians can come on over in to the New Covenant and let Jesus be their High Priest rather than trying to go back and live under Moses.

Under the Law of Moses... Saturday sabbath was a thing.

Under the Law of Christ (New Covenant), it is NOT a thing because a different rest has replaced Saturday sabbath which made it obsolete since we are IN Christ now and ... HE is out rest... HE is our sabbath 24/7/365 (Mat 11:28, Hebrews 4:9-11)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am aware that there are 613 commandments and I think that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to them as we are able. For example, the Israelites were given a number of commands that had the condition “when you enter the land…” while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so there is nothing wrong with not following laws that can’t be followed. Likewise, when the Israelites were in exile in Babylon the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which contains instructions in regard to temple practice that they couldn't follow because the temple had just been destroyed, so again God honored their obedience to what they could obey.

So do you abstain from pork? do you not mix fabrics in your clothing? Do yo unot eat scaleless fish? I can list many more of the Mosaic Law that you still can obey.

The Kingdom was not only for Jews, but the Jew first, then the Gentile, which is why the Jesus sent his disciples to the Jews first, the prophesied that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14) and he commissioned his disciples to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations (Matthew 28:16-20), and which is why Paul said that the Gospel of the Kingdom was to the Jew first, then to the nations (Romans 1:16).

The Kingdom was and still is for the benefit of Israel. The church will not be on earth for the 1000 year kingdom. Israel will be the rulers under Jesus over the earth. Gentile nations will once a year have to come to Jerusalem and give a sacrifice or their land will suffer drought for that year.

Jesus specifically commanded the Apostles to not go to the gentiles! When He gave what we call the great commission- He did not say to go and tell gentiles they can enter the kingdom, but to teach them what the church has to obey.

As for the Mosaic Law?

Galatians 3:

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The law was never given to save, make one righteous or prove righteousness. It was given to make sin exceedingly sinful

Romans 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

the law gives sin strength!

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So do you abstain from pork? do you not mix fabrics in your clothing? Do yo unot eat scaleless fish? I can list many more of the Mosaic Law that you still can obey.

Nah, they don't do none of that stuff... they pick and choose which commands they want to follow and then bark at the rest of us for not following the law.

 

[Soyeong]

Do YOU believe 1 Timothy 4:4,5 is a doctrine of demons??? View attachment 41217

Indeed, in 1 Timothy 4:1-5, Paul said described what he was speaking against as being the doctrine of demons, which should be a major clue that he was not speaking against obeying the commands of God.

Apparently you have not received the memo... we are NOT under the old covenant anymore... we be up under the New Covenant now with Jesus Christ as out High Priest

Did you not know and understand there are major differences between the old covenant... and the New Covenant???

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

It's sad to see those claiming we are still under the old covenant and we are supposed to be living under the Law of Moses View attachment 41218

I have not been suggesting that we should be under the Mosaic Covenant, but rather I have been speaking about how we should live under the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10). Those who want nothing to do with obeying the Mosaic Law want nothing to do with being under the New Covenant.

Nah, they don't do none of that stuff... they pick and choose which commands they want to follow and then bark at the rest of us for not following the law.

You don't know me. It would be to your benefit to make sure that something is true before you falsely accuse me of something. Moreover, even if I were the biggest hypocrite in the world who was living in complete disobedience to the Mosaic Law, it would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about the fact that follower of God should follow what He has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

 

[Soyeong]

So do you abstain from pork? do you not mix fabrics in your clothing? Do yo unot eat scaleless fish? I can list many more of the Mosaic Law that you still can obey.

Indeed, I abstain from eating unclean animals and from wearing cloths mixed with wool and linen.

The Kingdom was and still is for the benefit of Israel. The church will not be on earth for the 1000 year kingdom. Israel will be the rulers under Jesus over the earth. Gentile nations will once a year have to come to Jerusalem and give a sacrifice or their land will suffer drought for that year.

The New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:33), so it is only through becoming joined to Israel through faith in Christ and the Gospel of the Kingdom that Gentiles are able to partake of the New Covenant. The Greek word "ecclesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so that is when the Church began, and it is has always referred to the assembly of God's chosen people.

Jesus specifically commanded the Apostles to not go to the gentiles! When He gave what we call the great commission- He did not say to go and tell gentiles they can enter the kingdom, but to teach them what the church has to obey.

While there was an instance where Jesus only sent his disciples out to the Jews, that does not mean that he never intended his disciples to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom to all nations. There would be no point Jesus commissioning his disciples to ring the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations if the point was not for Gentiles to enter the Kingdom.

As for the Mosaic Law?

Galatians 3:

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in accordance with the promise, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

In regard to Galatians 3:20-25, someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because it was given as a gift to teach us how to know him, but it does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject everything that he taught and go back to living in sin.

In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God (1), through faith (2), in Christ (3), and bring children of Abraham and heirs to the promise (4) is directly connected with living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God (1). In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law (2). In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (3). In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him (4).

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The law was never given to save, make one righteous or prove righteousness. It was given to make sin exceedingly sinful

Romans 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

the law gives sin strength!

Can you please explain what you think it is that is intrinsic to the commands to love God and our neighbor as ourselves that gives strength to sin?

In Romans 7, Paul said that the Mosaic Law is good and that he wanted to do good, but contrasted that with the law of sin that was working in his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do. In Romans 7:7, the Mosaic Law is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then that leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, in Romans 7:5, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Mosaic Law should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin rather than to the Mosaic Law, such as Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16-18, and 1 Corinthians 15:56. It is the law of is that is the strength of sin, not the Law of God that instructs us to refrain from sin.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed the Mosaic Law, having the experience of living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not having that experience.

 

[Soyeong]

If you knew your Bible a little better... you would notice that 9 of the 10 are present in the New Testament under the Law of Christ... but, Saturday sabbath is not present because Jesus has provided a better REST than what was provided under the old covenant.

And, I'm not the one claiming the old covenant has been taken away... God's Word teaches this!

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Galatians 2:21
do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:11
No man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Here's REST according to the New Covenant... is it's not speaking of keeping Saturday sabbath!

Hebrews 4:4-11
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:6 tells us "to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief" so those living under the Law of Moses did not enter in to God's REST... even though they were observing Saturday sabbath!

What the Lord's Word is speaking of in Hebrews 4:8 is what we have under the New Covenant which is resting in faith IN Christ... not just one day a week, but ALL days.

Therefore Saturday sabbath does not meet the higher standards Jesus Christ has brought forth for His people in the New Covenant due to it';s better promises.

Maybe some day... the sabbatarians can come on over in to the New Covenant and let Jesus be their High Priest rather than trying to go back and live under Moses.

Under the Law of Moses... Saturday sabbath was a thing.

Under the Law of Christ (New Covenant), it is NOT a thing because a different rest has replaced Saturday sabbath which made it obsolete since we are IN Christ now and ... HE is out rest... HE is our sabbath 24/7/365 (Mat 11:28, Hebrews 4:9-11)

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and in Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest and to refuse to learn from his example. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but you reject it. This rest for our souls comes from having faith in God to correctly guide us in how to rightly live through the Mosaic Law, not from refusing to follow His instructions.

In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their unbelief/disobedience, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our work as God rests from His, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so you trying to use entering into that rest to justify the same sort of disobedience is exactly the opposite of what was being said. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, so those who are refusing to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law should not consider themselves to be in Christ.

 

[Jack]

They believe "It's for thee, but not for me" View attachment 41147

Bingo!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Indeed, I abstain from eating unclean animals and from wearing cloths mixed with wool and linen.

That is your privilege. But remember that both Jesus and Paul both said no foods are unclean anymore.
Which of the 613 Mosaic Laws do you feel you no longer have to obey?

The New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:33), so it is only through becoming joined to Israel through faith in Christ and the Gospel of the Kingdom that Gentiles are able to partake of the New Covenant. The Greek word "ecclesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so that is when the Church began, and it is has always referred to the assembly of God's chosen people.

Sorry, but we do not join with Israel, we join with jesus and become heirs with belieivng Israel.

Yes the New covenant is to be made with Israel, but as Paul said in romans 11 we as wild branches, are grafted onto the vine of blessing along with the natural branches, through Jesus.

Sorry the church was born at Pentecost. By using the Septuagint and then to English, you are using a translation of a translation. Maybe you should look at teh Hebrew then look at what Paul declared is the definition of the church is.

Then look at what Jesus said:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus DI*D NOT SAY: " I will continue to build my church", or " I will keep building my church", or "have been building my church".

In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so it is also true that the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in accordance with the promise, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

In regard to Galatians 3:20-25, someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because it was given as a gift to teach us how to know him, but it does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject everything that he taught and go back to living in sin.

In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God (1), through faith (2), in Christ (3), and bring children of Abraham and heirs to the promise (4) is directly connected with living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God (1). In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law (2). In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (3). In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him (4).

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

You err because you are taking a specific event and forcing it to be applied between the old and new covenants. That is an assumption not allowed by the text.

Well if you demand to keep people under the law- are you circumcised according to the rituals of the Mosaic covenant?

If married and have sons, have you had them circumcised according to teh Mosaic rituals? Which of the 613 laws do you choose not to obey? Do you still make wave offerings, peace offerings and purifying offerings? If not why not? They are part of teh Mosaic Law!

Paul told us Christ is the end of the Mosaic Law for righteousness for us who believe. And the law was a school master, but we no longer need that school master.

Also the law was added because of transgressions, not to make on e righteous as Paul said in many of his epistles.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Indeed, in 1 Timothy 4:1-5, Paul said described what he was speaking against as being the doctrine of demons, which should be a major clue that he was not speaking against obeying the commands of God.

But, the command you speak of is not applicable to those living under the New Covenant

God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds

So you slaughter animals as a sacrifice for your sins then???

If not, then you are contradicting yourself and not practicing what you preach

You don't know me. It would be to your benefit to make sure that something is true before you falsely accuse me of something. Moreover, even if I were the biggest hypocrite in the world who was living in complete disobedience to the Mosaic Law, it would just mean that I would need to repent, not that I was wrong about the fact that follower of God should follow what He has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, including keeping the Sabbath holy

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Some adherents to keeping Saturday sabbath frequently ask “where did the Lord take Saturday sabbatrh way?”
The answer can be found in Hebrews 10:9 and in Hebrews 7:12.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[Ziggy]

What is a poke chop?

Hugs

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

What is a poke chop?

Down south, that's how they say pork chop

 

[Soyeong]

That is your privilege. But remember that both Jesus and Paul both said no foods are unclean anymore.

Sin is defined as the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), which includes God's laws against eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11, Deuteronomy 14). Furthermore, in Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from God's law, so if Jesus and Paul had done as you suggest, then they were committing sin, which would also means that Jesus disqualified himself as our Savior. Furthermore, in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, the way that God instructed His children to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying His law even if they perform signs and wonders, so if Jesus and Paul had done as you suggest, then those who consider them to be false prophets for that reason would be correctly acting in accordance with what God has instructed His children to do, thankfully they did not do as you suggest did not deprive us of that aspect of salvation.

Which of the 613 Mosaic Laws do you feel you no longer have to obey?

I said that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to the Mosaic Law as we are able, not that there are laws that I feel we should no longer obey. While there are illegitimate reasons for not following certain laws, such as based on feelings, there are legitimate reasons, such as with the Israelites not following the laws that said "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years or with not following the laws in regard to temple practice after the 1st temple had been destroyed, but following them again after the 2nd temple had been constructed. Not even Jesus followed the laws in regard to have a period or to giving birth, but again he had a legitimate reason not to follow them.

Sorry, but we do not join with Israel, we join with jesus and become heirs with belieivng Israel.

Yes the New covenant is to be made with Israel, but as Paul said in romans 11 we as wild branches, are grafted onto the vine of blessing along with the natural branches, through Jesus.

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that came up out of Egypt with the Israelites, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai, and in Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there has always been Gentiles are joined to Israel through faith in the God of Israel. In Romans 9:6-8, Israel is made up of those who have faith in the promise. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time without Christ, alienated from Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having not hope, and without God in the world, but through faith in Christ all of those things are no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are now fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. In Acts 15:16-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles as being part of the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included among God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey God's laws for how to fulfill those roles. For example, it would be contradictory for a Gentile to want to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation. So indeed, Gentiles are grafted into Israel.

Sorry the church was born at Pentecost. By using the Septuagint and then to English, you are using a translation of a translation. Maybe you should look at teh Hebrew then look at what Paul declared is the definition of the church is.

The Septuagint uses "ecclesia" to refers to the assembly of God's chosen people and the NT uses "ecclesia" to refer to the assembly of God's chosen people, so I am not using a translation of a translation. If the NT authors selectively translate "ecclesia" as "church" whenever it refers to NT believers and as "assembly" everywhere else, then they create the false impression that it is referring to something brand new.

Then look at what Jesus said:

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus DI*D NOT SAY: " I will continue to build my church", or " I will keep building my church", or "have been building my church".

The word used can and arguable should be translated as "rebuild" in accordance with restoring David's fallen tents in fulfillment of prophecy.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

You err because you are taking a specific event and forcing it to be applied between the old and new covenants. That is an assumption not allowed by the text.

It remains true that a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified regardless of which covenants as being spoken about.

Well if you demand to keep people under the law- are you circumcised according to the rituals of the Mosaic covenant?
If married and have sons, have you had them circumcised according to teh Mosaic rituals? Which of the 613 laws do you choose not to obey? Do you still make wave offerings, peace offerings and purifying offerings? If not why not? They are part of teh Mosaic Law!

Indeed. I plan to if I have any sons. The ones that I am able. Not, there is no temple. Indeed.

Paul told us Christ is the end of the Mosaic Law for righteousness for us who believe. And the law was a school master, but we no longer need that school master.

Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the law, not the end of it. Someone who disregarded everything that their school master taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. Now that Christ has come we have a superior teacher, but the subject matter is still how to walk in God's way in obedience to His law. The law leads us to Christ because it was given for the purpose of teaching us how to know him, but does not lead us to Christ, so that we can then disregard everything he taught and go back to living in sin.

Also the law was added because of transgressions, not to make on e righteous as Paul said in many of his epistles.

The way to become righteous is a different issue than what it means to become righteous. In other words, the only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done a certain amount of righteous works, but someone becoming righteous through faith means that they are becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law through faith and it would be contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to it. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be doers of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31).

 

[Ziggy]

What Are Purines? | Arthritis-health​

Purines are molecules found in the cells of all living things, including humans, animals, and plants. They can be divided into endogenous and exogenous purines, and some foods have high purine concentrations. People with hyperuricemia or gout are advised to limit their intake of high-purine foods.
Foods that should be avoided on a low-purine diet include :

• Sugary foods and beverages, particularly those made with high fructose corn syrup, such as sodas
• Seafood, particularly scallops, anchovies, and herring
• Meat, particularly organ meat or “sweetmeats,” such as liver, and game meats
• Alcoholic beverages, especially beer

In addition to raising uric acid levels, alcohol can inhibit the body’s ability to process and eliminate uric acid, so people with gout are advised to avoid alcohol or drink in moderation.

Limiting the consumption of these foods and drinks may help treat hyperuricemia and reduce the risk of gout flare-ups.

When considering the dietary laws of the OT, I believe God put them in there for optimal preventitive medical advice.
Pork if not cooked fully can lead to food poisoning and DEATH.
Seafood other than fish with scales can effect arthritis and kidney disease.

We got people walking in a desert for 40 years. Would be challenging if you got food poisoning or gout.

Are the food laws required for salvation? No.
Well, depends on how healthy you want to remain in this life before old age gets ya.
God don't want us to have diseases. So he created laws to help prevent them from happening.

Same with the agricultural laws. You treat the land right it will bring forth healthy food. You treat it with pesticides and over use the land, then you have to modify the food to make it edible. Not good.
This why we have so much disease today with all the GMO's and pesticides.

Are agricultural laws required for salvation? No. But the food will be better and keep us healthy with the right nutrients and minerals the earth itself provides.

The law is two-tiered. The top layer is carnal. It has to do with day to day commonsense directions on how to live a happy and healthy lifestyle.
The second layer is spiritual. Every law has a dual meaning.
It is this second layer which is spiritual that is called the Law of Liberty in which Christians walk.

This spiritual law is based on faith.
When Paul got bit by the serpent in the fire he should of died from snake poison. But his faith in God kept him from harm.
That's not to say we should go out and eat fried clams and oysters if you have gout.
My Dad had a toe amputated from gangrene due to gout because he liked his fried clams and his liver and onions.
He has chronic kidney disease from the purine build up over many years.

Now the laws concerning animal sacrifices for the remission of sins and the levitical priesthood have been removed as Jesus is both the only sacrifice worthy to remove our since and has recieved the office of High Priest.

An eye for an eye was for retribution and being ones own judge and jury and execurioner. Even though we know God says Vengence is Mine sayeth the Lord, and we should trust him when it comes to karma. Believe me... he knows how to apply justice better than we do.
What goes around comes around. FACT.

I'm not muslim. I don't believe a woman should have to walk around hidden under shrouds of clothing from the world.
But when bikini's and short shorts and mini skirts came on the scene, rapes and unwanted pregnancies exploded.
Pornography increased, divorces increased, leaving shattered homes in it's wake.
Modesty is good.
And when you consider China when it had it's one child policy and everyone wanted a son. That made it difficult for ALL the men to find a wife and raise a family. So I think a lot of women got abused over the last 50-100 years trying to spread them around.

So Why did God create the laws? Because man is sinful and does whatever they want without direction, without accountability.
Reckless.
So God gave man laws to live by to have a happy and healthy life while we pilgramage on this earth.

Now you want to go out and eat "poke chops" , there aint no law today under the NT not to eat it.
If your invited to someones house for dinner and they set before you a nice big plate of fried clams, there aint no law against eating them.
Not eating them won't save you spiritually. It might prevent you from having a gout attack however and suffering.

The OT laws were not based on FAITH. They were based on carnal living in the flesh.
The NT laws of loving God and Neighbor as yourself and living peacably among eachother as best we can, these are the laws based on FAITH. Because in this world only by faith can you live in peace with all mankind.
Only by Faith do we have the assurance of Christ's peace in us.

The law is good if used for the right reasons. It may save you years of living with excruciating pain, sorrow, and even death.
But it won't give salvation to your spirit. Only Faith can do that.

If you choose to eat "poke chops" just make sure they are fully cooked and don't eat raw meat or organ foods like liver, kidneys, heart.
Lobster, snails, oyster, clams, bottom feeders who eat the pollution off the seafloor and are high in purine should also be avoided as much as possible. If your a male and you like your toes, all 10 of them. And you have arthritis and you don't want flareups or get kidney disease.
And if your a woman take care of your man and mind what he puts on his plate.
Tell him, it's the law of the house and in order to prevent you from getting sick and possibly dying, I'm laying down the law of the menu.

I believe that is what the OT laws were meant for.
God loves us. He always has and only wants the best for us.
And if we ignore his dietary or agricultural laws.... then you are what you eat, good or bad.
But it won't bring you salvation, just a healthier life.

Hugs

 

[Soyeong]

But, the command you speak of is not applicable to those living under the New Covenant View attachment 41317

The New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so it is applicable to those living under the New Covenant. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes reframing from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45).

So you slaughter animals as a sacrifice for your sins then???

If not, then you are contradicting yourself and not practicing what you preach View attachment 41318

I have not preached that we should do animal sacrifices, so I am not contradicting myself. The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so there is nothing wrong with not following laws that can't currently be followed. Likewise, when the Israelites were in exile in Babylon the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which contains instructions in regard to temple practice that they couldn't follow because the temple had just been destroyed, so God honored their obedience to the laws that they were able to obey. It will not surprise me if you ignore this point and go for the gotcha even though it doesn't work that way.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Likewise, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it, and this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. It would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent is ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. The way to be part of the Body of Christ is not by refusing to follow what he taught, but just the opposite.

A6nd with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Some adherents to keeping Saturday sabbath frequently ask “where did the Lord take Saturday sabbatrh way?”
The answer can be found in Hebrews 10:9 and in Hebrews 7:12.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore His laws for how to act in accordance with His righteousness are also eternal (Psalms 119:160), so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do that are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. If those instructions were to ever change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, so Hebrews 7:12 could not be referring to a change of the law in regard to its content, such as with it becoming righteous to commit murder or sinful to help the poor, but rather in context it is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change of the law in regard to its administration.

I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what he taught, rather 1 Corinthians 9:21 uses a parallel statement to equate the Mosaic Law with the Law of Christ. The Mosaic Law is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he wasn't saying about the Mosaic Law that wasn't already said in the Psalms. In Romans 7:25, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin, so the Law of God is not the law of sin.

 

[Ziggy]

New Testament

Mar 7:14
And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:
Mar 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.
Mar 7:16
If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
Mar 7:17
And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.
Mar 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mar 7:19
Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Mar 7:20
And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
Mar 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Old Testament


Lev 11:41
And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.
Lev 11:42
Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.
Lev 11:43
Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.
Lev 11:44
For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Lev 11:45
For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.
Lev 11:46
This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:
Lev 11:47
To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Lev 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
Lev 18:30
Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

creeping things..

Bugs are really good for you​

Your friends and neighbors are already munching on insects. According to a report by Global Market Insights, the US edible insect market topped $55 million in 2017 and is expected to grow to nearly $80 million by 2024.

Europe’s on track to do the same, while Asia Pacific nations are expected to eat $270 million worth of insects by the quarter of the century.

A growing demand for high quality protein, along with a movement toward sustainability and against processed foods, are a few of the reasons behind the growing popularity.

Here’s another explanation: Bugs are very good for you.

Many countries and traditions have known this for decades, even centuries. According to a 2013 report by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), at least 2 billion people worldwide eat bugs every day.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/25/health/insects-feed-save-planet-wellness/index.html

Lev 18:24
Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

Eze 8:8
Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
Eze 8:9
And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
Eze 8:10
So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
Eze 8:11
And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
Eze 8:12
Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.

So in the beginning God created all the creeping things. And yet he saved some on the ark with Noah.
Gen 8:19
Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.

The reason why God told Israel not to eat zee bugs, was so they would be seperate from the other nations around them that knew not God. They weren't only eating them, they were worshipping them and making idols out of them. And in Ezekiel chapter 8 we see even Israel turned their back on God and his laws.
They broke the covenant. That is why a new one needed to be established. God didn't break it, man did.

So should we eat zee bugs or not?

Honestly, most of the food products today on the shelf in the grocery store already have bugs incorporated in them, whether it be cricket meal instead of corn meal.
Peanut butter The 16-ounce jar of peanut butter in your pantry can contain up to 136 insect parts before it is deemed contaminated, according to the FDA's Food Defect Action Levels guide.

What made eating bugs abominable? Was it the bugs themselves or they way people relied on them instead of God to provide for them?
Some bugs are poisonous and should be avoided. Today they are experimenting with bugs and creating new ones, some they even modify their genes with malaria or other diseases and let them loose on unsuspecting people around the world.

https://www.science.org/content/article/studies-intentionally-infect-people-disease-causing-bugs-are-rise

Vaccines are very profitable. Just ask Big Pharma.
If everyone obeyed God's laws, these people would be removed from the earth as God removed the nations around Israel.

If you combine the OT with the NT, you will see the intentions behind the creeping things comes from the heart.
Mar 7:21
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

It's not the bugs. But God knew where it would eventually lead.... profits.

Hugs

 

[Soyeong]

What Are Purines? | Arthritis-health​

We got people walking in a desert for 40 years. Would be challenging if you got food poisoning or gout.

While there are certainly night and day differences between how healthy it is to eat clean or unclean animals, God associated it with His holiness, so there is more to it than that. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes refraining from eating unclean animals (Leviticus 11:44-45).

Are the food laws required for salvation? No.

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to live in sin, which means that that also must be an aspect of our salvation that we are experiencing in the present. In other words, having the experience living in obedience to God's law through faith in Jesus is intrinsically the content of the gift of him saving us from not having that experience, so Jesus saving us from not eating unclean animals intrinsically requires us to refrain from eating them. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience doing those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not having that experience, which intrinsically requires our participation.

The law is two-tiered. The top layer is carnal. It has to do with day to day commonsense directions on how to live a happy and healthy lifestyle.

The second layer is spiritual. Every law has a dual meaning.
It is this second layer which is spiritual that is called the Law of Liberty in which Christians walk.

In Romans 7:14, Paul said that God's law is spiritual, in Romans 8:4-7, he contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have carnal minds who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law, and in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as carnal works that are against the Spirit are also against God's law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Psalms 19:7, the Mosaic Law is perfect, in Psalms 119:45, it is of liberty, and in Psalms 119:1-3, it blesses those who obey it, so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Mosaic Law that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

This spiritual law is based on faith.
When Paul got bit by the serpent in the fire he should of died from snake poison. But his faith in God kept him from harm.

In Proverbs 3:5-7, we have a choice between whether we are going to lean on our own understanding of right and wrong by doing what is right in our own eyes or whether we are going to trust in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through obeying what He has instructed in all of our ways and He will make our way straight. So that is what it means to have faith, which is why Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law (Matthew 23:23).

Now the laws concerning animal sacrifices for the remission of sins and the levitical priesthood have been removed as Jesus is both the only sacrifice worthy to remove our since and has recieved the office of High Priest.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). The only way that instructions for how to be holy as God is holy can be removed is by first removing God's eternal holiness.

So God gave man laws to live by to have a happy and healthy life while we pilgramage on this earth.

Indeed, the Mosaic Law was given for our own good in order to teach us how to be blessed (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

Now you want to go out and eat "poke chops" , there aint no law today under the NT not to eat it.
If your invited to someones house for dinner and they set before you a nice big plate of fried clams, there aint no law against eating them.

The NT teaches us to repent from our sin and that it is by the Mosaic Law that we know what sin is (Romans 3:20), which includes repenting from eating unclean animals.

The OT laws were not based on FAITH. They were based on carnal living in the flesh.

It is not the case that faith wasn't important until the NT, but rather it is important in the OT too. For example, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Again, living in the flesh is living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

The NT laws of loving God and Neighbor as yourself and living peacably among eachother as best we can, these are the laws based on FAITH.

Everything that God commanded in the OT is an example of how we should love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments of the OT and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so I don't see how you can use that as the basis for claiming that the NT laws are of faith while the OT laws are not. The position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is the position that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on the, for example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for everything else commanded in the Mosaic Law.

New Testament

Mark 7:14-23

In Mark 7:1-13, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the command of God in order to establish their own traditions, so Mark 7:14-23 should not be interpreted as Jesus turning around and even more hypocritically doing what he just finished criticizing the Pharisees as being hypocrites for doing. He was having a conversation about whether we can become common by eating bread with unwashed hands (Matthew 15:20), which has nothing to do with the issue of eating. unclean animals. Yes, ritual cleansing is sanitary, but people will wash off dirt before immersing in a mikveh, so the point is not sanitation.

The mishpatim are laws in regard to righteousness and justice like the one against committing murder straightforwardly make sense why God commanded them that can commonly be found in other societies. However, the chukim are laws that do not straightforwardly make why God commanded them and do not come with an explanation, so they are almost inviting us to ponder what God is teaching us about Himself through giving. them. People have come up with many good explanations for why God commanded against eating unclean animals, though even if we don't understand why God commanded something, then that is when we have the greatest opportunity to have faith in God to correctly divide between right and wrong by obeying His instructions rather than leaning on our own understanding.

 

[Ziggy]

Mal 2:4
And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.
Mal 2:5
My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

Heb 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law, ) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

The law of hospitality:
Luk 10:3
Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
Luk 10:4
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luk 10:5
And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
Luk 10:6
And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
Luk 10:7
And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
Luk 10:8
And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Luk 10:9
And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Jesus didn't say when you come to a house make sure you only eat clean and not unclean food.
Because it's not about the food set before you, it's about hospitality that comes from the heart.

The law of Charity:

Rom 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15
But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16
Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18
For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19
Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20
For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21
It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22
Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23
And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Col 2:20
Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21
(Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22
Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

When one is baptised into Christ, the old ways are dead to us, behold , all things become new.
2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

We are translated from the law under Moses to the Law of Christ.
The law of Moses could not make anything perfect, only the law of Christ can, because it is of faith and not of works.
Now the works of the law under Moses are those which apply to the flesh and the carnal minded. Eat, drink, wash, clean/unclean...
The works of the law of the spirit of Christ are those which come from the heart. Charity, Hospitality, Kindness, Hope, Mercy.....

You can refrain from eating or drinking anything you believe is unclean. To you it is unclean, even though everything God created is pure.
So to him that has faith that whatsoever he eats is pure, then by faith it is clean.

If you come to dinner at my house and I serve you roast pork with mashed potatoes and gravy, and you say, I can't eat that because it is unclean.
Will God judge my hospitality, or your refusal to eat according to Moses law?

Now if I know that you prefer not to eat roast pork and I set it before you on purpose.
Then I will be judged for setting a stumbling block before you. Because I knew better.
But if you ate it because you didn't want to offend me, then you would be judged according to your graciousness and kindness not wanting to offend me. You would not be condemned by the lawof Moses, but pardoned by the law of liberty.

It is a higher calling to walk in the spirit and not according to the flesh.
It's not what goes into the body that defiles a man, but that which proceeds from the heart.

God looks upon the heart.

Pro 3:3
Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
Pro 3:4
So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

2 Corinthians chapter 3.
2Co 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8
How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9
For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

2Co 3:12
Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Co 3:13
And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Co 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Co 3:15
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Co 3:16
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Co 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

We walk by Faith, not by sight.
Hugs

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I said that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to the Mosaic Law as we are able, not that there are laws that I feel we should no longer obey. While there are illegitimate reasons for not following certain laws, such as based on feelings, there are legitimate reasons, such as with the Israelites not following the laws that said "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years or with not following the laws in regard to temple practice after the 1st temple had been destroyed, but following them again after the 2nd temple had been constructed. Not even Jesus followed the laws in regard to have a period or to giving birth, but again he had a legitimate reason not to follow them.

Can you show me in the bible where we are to obey God only as we are able??????????????? And as that part of the Mosaic law concerning menstruation was directed at woman, of course.

Should we list all 613 and see which ones you feel you are not able to obey? Please tell me where god said only to obey the ones we are able (outside ofcourse the direct commands to opposite sex.)

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that came up out of Egypt with the Israelites, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai, and in Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there has always been Gentiles are joined to Israel through faith in the God of Israel. In Romans 9:6-8, Israel is made up of those who have faith in the promise. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time without Christ, alienated from Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having not hope, and without God in the world, but through faith in Christ all of those things are no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are now fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. In Acts 15:16-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles as being part of the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included among God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms used to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey God's laws for how to fulfill those roles. For example, it would be contradictory for a Gentile to want to become part of a holy nation while wanting nothing to do with following God's instructions for how to live as part of a holy nation. So indeed, Gentiles are grafted into Israel.

And they had to be circumcised and commit to obey the Mosaic Law. they did not become Jews, they became proselytes

The Septuagint uses "ecclesia" to refers to the assembly of God's chosen people and the NT uses "ecclesia" to refer to the assembly of God's chosen people, so I am not using a translation of a translation. If the NT authors selectively translate "ecclesia" as "church" whenever it refers to NT believers and as "assembly" everywhere else, then they create the false impression that it is referring to something brand new.

So you believe Jesus made a mistake when He told Peter He WILL BUILD HIs church. If the church already existed, He would have said, "keep building", keep adding" or some such phrase. Jesus was not sloppy with grammar and needed our editing skills.

So by the use of the word ekklesia you believe it refers to the church. Okay so when secular greek writers wrote of ekklesia- they were always referring to the church.
.

You need to remember these things that were declared to the church:

1. 2 Corinthians 3:7
   But if the ministrationof death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2. 2 Corinthians 3:8
   How shall not the ministrationof the spirit be rather glorious?
   
   
3. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Paul said the 10 commandments did not minister life, but death.!!!!!

1 Corinthians 15:56
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Sin gets its strength to act from the law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Romans 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law makes sin exceeding sinful!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Galatians 3:10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Those who submit themselves to the Mosaic Law are under the curse!!!!!!!!

Romans 4

King James Version

​

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.


Our righteousness is not based on obeying the law, but faith alone in Jesus!!!!!!!

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If you submit to the law, you have fallen from grace!!!!!!

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

My righteousness has nothing to do with my works, but Jesus is my righteousness. And all other who trust Him and not the deeds of the law for anything.