The NT instructs us to repent from sin and that it is by the Law of Moses that we know what sin is.
What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?
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You do struggle with English!
Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
The NT says that we are not permitted to sin (Romans 6:15). The NT also says that it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20). This is not difficult to understand.
The Mosaic Law brings us to Christ because it teaches us how to know Him, but does not bring us to him so that we can reject everything he taught again God back to doing what it reveals to be sin. Someone who disregarded everything their tutor taught them after they left would be missing the whole point of a tutor.
Do you sin?
John 1:17
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
You missed the part that says we are not under the Law. The Law that YOU don't obey!
I am not sinless, but I do repent after I have sinned.
There is no "but" in that verse in the Greek, rather John 1:16 says grace upon grace, so it is speaking about one example of grace bring added upon another. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.
The law that Romans 6:14 describes us as being not under is a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Mosaic Law, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so we are still under it an are obligated to refrain from doing what it reveals to be sin. If Romans 6:14 were referring to us not being under the Mosaic Law, then we would be permitted to sin all we want, but that would contradict Romans 6:15.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
You should really just read the Bible.
Hebrews 9
16For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
Revelation 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
God's ways are not our ways, nor are His thoughts our thoughts. With Him, all things are possible.
Including BOTH Hebrews 9:16-17 AND Revelation 13. It's what's known as a paradox.
Romans 4:17
God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;
But your theory that the New Covenant began when Christ was born is just manmade nonsense.
Romans 3:4
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.”
.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sorry but Galatians clearly teachesd that we are not under the Mosaic Law. Paul also said in Romans that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. the Mosaic Law has ended.
Galatians 3:23-25
King James Version
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
The Law of Christ is different from the Mosaic Law.
No the commands of the NT while having many things carried over is qualitatively and quantitatively different.
We have no clothing or dietary prohibitions, we have no purification laws. NO laws governing sacrifices. etc.etc.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Yes, Jesus Christ is King of Israel, and that means all 12 tribes of Israel that are saved along with believing Gentiles.
So like I said, trying to plant the title of 'King of the Jews' on Jesus Christ is an insult, for that title even EXCLUDES believing Gentiles from His future Kingdom.
It should not make sense to you to interpret the Bible as speaking against obeying what God has commanded. In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light tot he Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ sent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Galatians shouldn't be interpreted as speaking against following Christ.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. In Romans 3:27-31, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith does not abolish God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-12, so you are incorrectly identifying what Galatians is speaking against. Moreover, you are trying to abolish God's law instead of uphold it by faith inspire of the fact that Jesus also specifically said that he came not to abolish it (Matthew 5:17).
Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because it was given as a gift to teach us how to know him, but it does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject everything he taught and go back to living in sin.
Moreover, the surrounding context is in full support of obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 3:16-19, a new covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise. In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is directly connected to living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him.
I don't see a justifiable reason to think that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what he spent his ministry teaching. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which law we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses.
That is false. The author of the NT should not be interpreted as being in disagreement with what the Father has instructed, and even if they were, the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so they shouldn't be followed instead of the Father.
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so Gentiles can look at what he taught and decide whether or not to become his follower, but Gentiles can't follow him by refusing to follow what he taught.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You have forgotten that the offer of the kingdom was for Israel alone. Jesus sent His disciples to Jews only. Jesus came to pay for our sins and also make a bona fide offer of the millenial kingdom to Israel, though He foreknew they would reject HIm as Messiah.
The MOsaic Law was not given to the gentile nations but to Israel alone.
Do you eat pork? Do you square your beard? Do you not wear mixed fabrics? Do you not eel fish with no scales? Do you refrain from eating animals with cloven hoofs who chew the cud? Or do you say that part of the law is not in effect for you to obey. there are 613 commands in the Mosaic Law, not just 10.
And Romans 3 shows we are justified by the law of faith not the Mosaic Law.
Now let me ask you a question.
You wrote Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow. Do you believe you no longer sin?
The First one, to be sure proves all of the Laws to be worthy of a Christian, if not you are not worthy of a Christian at all.
Any one who bags the Commandments is of the Devil in fact !
Jesus said he came not to change one jot of such in fact !
What if Jesus said that he was going to change one ? he would of been killed directly !
What if Jesus was to say, yo dawgs, i am changing the first one ?
Just remember that Christians are not under the Law or above the Law, but by Grace covers the Law, it's changed from what it was under the Jews, that's finished with in that regard because we have Christ Jesus in fact. So the Law has changed it's spots in that regard !
If one thinks the Law is as it was under the Jews, such a one is a fool ! or does not understand who Christ Jesus truly is in fact.
Any one who bags the Commandments is of the Devil in fact !
Jesus said he came not to change one jot of such in fact !
What if Jesus said that he was going to change one ? he would of been killed directly !
What if Jesus was to say, yo dawgs, i am changing the first one ?
Just remember that Christians are not under the Law or above the Law, but by Grace covers the Law, it's changed from what it was under the Jews, that's finished with in that regard because we have Christ Jesus in fact. So the Law has changed it's spots in that regard !
If one thinks the Law is as it was under the Jews, such a one is a fool ! or does not understand who Christ Jesus truly is in fact.
The Kingdom was not only for Jews, but the Jew first, then the Gentile, which is why the Jesus sent his disciples to the Jews first, the prophesied that the Gospel of the Kingdom would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14) and he commissioned his disciples to bring the Gospel of the Kingdom to the nations (Matthew 28:16-20), and which is why Paul said that the Gospel of the Kingdom was to the Jew first, then to the nations (Romans 1:16).
While that is true, it was give to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to obey it in accordance with the promise and the Gospel of the Kingdom.
I am aware that there are 613 commandments and I think that followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to them as we are able. For example, the Israelites were given a number of commands that had the condition “when you enter the land…” while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so there is nothing wrong with not following laws that can’t be followed. Likewise, when the Israelites were in exile in Babylon the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which contains instructions in regard to temple practice that they couldn't follow because the temple had just been destroyed, so again God honored their obedience to what they could obey.
Indeed, we do not earn our justification as the result of having first obeyed the Mosaic Law because it was never given as a means of earning our justification, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't obey it for the purposes for which it was given.
No. Our goal should be to follow his example, but the only reason why someone would need to be sinless is if they are going to give themselves to pay for the sins of the world, the rest of us can have our sins forgiven.
Even if that we true, it wouldn't change the fact that follower of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.
God is sovereign, so we are all under His law and are obligated to refrain from doing what it reveals to be sin. In Romans 6:14, it describes the law that we are not under as being the law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Law of God, but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is, so again we are still under the Mosaic Law. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this is what it means to be under grace, and this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Psalms 119:160, all of God's righteous laws are eternal, so none of them will ever change.
I don't see how you can hold the position that anyone who bags God's commandments is of the devil and that Jesus did't change one jot of God's law while also arguing that God's law has been changed and His commandments have been bagged. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so he embodied the Mosaic Law by setting a perfect example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience Toit, so if one thinks that we aren't under it, then they don't understand who he truly is.
God's law used to say eating poke chops was a sin... now the Law of Christ under the New Covenant says we can munch on some poke chops and wavy gravy which are sanctified thru the Word of God, prayer and thanksgiving
1 Timothy 4:4,5
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the Word of God and prayer.
This is one of the many differences between the Law of Moses (old covenant) and the Law of Christ (New Covenant)
Is it your position that the commandments of God are the doctrines of demons? If so, then that is blasphemy against God. If not, then why are you interpreting what Paul said about the doctrine of demons as though he were speaking about the commands of God? Look, where there is a will there is a way, so people can find ways to interpret servants of God as speaking against obeying Him if they determined to, but you shouldn't need me to point out how absurd that is, but rather you should be able to have the self-awareness to recognize on your own that your interpretation must be wrong without needing my help.
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