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What Was The Starting Point For The 3 Days And 3 Nights Prophecy?

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by ramrod8789, May 2, 2010.

  1. ramrod8789

    ramrod8789 New Member

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    Let me start by introducing myself. I am an Athiest considering the posibility that God is real due to information found in the link referenced study as illustrated below concerning the posibility of Jesus fulfilling time specific prophecy. I currently reject the concept of God due to the differing testimonies of Christian men regarding this specific topic which men claim is not important for Salvation. If the solid truth concerning this topic is not important for salvation, then I am already saved for not believing in God due to the many differing testimonies concerning this event that the Christian world has produced over the centuries causing me to not believe in God, and there is no reason for me to belive in God or for Christians to feel the need to spread a Gospel that varies depending on the person or denomination telling the Gospel according to their imagination.

    http://www.thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/the%20death%20and%20resurrection.pdf

    The study at this link makes the best case to date I have seen for Jesus fulfilling the 4 day time specific prophecy of the Passover Lamb (Lamb Chosen on tenth day and killed on 14th day). The study then goes on to make the best case to date that I have seen for Jesus fulfilling the 3 days and 3 nights propehcy in accordence with the manner in which God defined time in the scriptures, possibly proving the scriptures of Prophecy are not open to personal interpretations. Is this study deciving me to believe in God? Are Many Christians deceived to believe in God in less than "in spirit and in truth" since the true worshippers of God are said to be "in spirit and in truth"? I only ask this question since truth from God should not vary depending on the human perception delivering the truth of God from God since those of the truth hear God's voice according to Jesus when speaking to Pilate.

    I want to present an exercise for human perception with this thread. On page 25 of the link referenced study is a page that presents all the denominational starting points for the 3 days and 3 nights Prophecy that the Christian world has shared in various denominations at various points in Christian history. If the true worshippers of God are in spirit and in truth then the truth should be solid and verifiable. Which of the starting points represented by colored arrows on the top of page 25, or the bottom time line of page 25 is the truth from God according to the Law and testimony (spirit of Prophecy)?

    Don't just make a claim to a starting point and call it truth from God; Please explain why the perception of truth you are presenting is more true than the other Christian perceptions objectively illustrated on page 25, so that the solid truth of the matter can stand out above the Error of those who claim to worship God, but apparently do so in less than "in spirit and in truth".

    If the true worhsippers of God keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus according to revelations, then they have truth about God from God and this should be a simple matter to explain with out speculations. Will there be any two testimonies from this point foward that will agree and speak according to the Law and testimony?

    I look forward to your explinations which should come from God since those of the truth according to Jesus hear his voice. Some will probably try to say the truth of this matter is not important, but the Proverbs would disagree.
    Proverbs 14:25
    A true witnesses delivers souls, But a deceitful witness speaks lies. Proverbs 6:19
    A false witnesses who speaks lies, is one who sows discord among brethren. dis·cord: (d s kôrd ) n.. 1. a. Lack of agreement among persons, groups, or things. b. Tension or strife resulting from a lack of agreement; dissension.

    If Christian men are divided due to a lack of truth, does that mean they are unintentionally dividing themselves from the spirit of truth that Jesus promised to pour out on his true followers?

    The reason many Christian percptions on this issue are divided is due to someones testimony from Christian history not telling the full truth of the matter. Is there anyone at this forum who can speak a truth that delivers souls? My soul may depend on your ability to speak the truth about God from God to solidify that God is real and Jesus did fulfill all things in the Laws of Moses, Prophets and Psalms as he claimed.

    Can you guide this lost sheep back to the shepard with truth and guiding light from the shepard? I have tried to share this study with my questions in other forums and they have simply banned my questions which are based on this study. Some forums disregard that I have asked questions based on the link referenced study and simply deleted the link from My post causing confusion as to why I would ask the questions which I have asked. It's said that God is not the author of confusion and if you are of God you would not delete a word of this post to cause confusion if truth can be established that will save my soul. I pray to the same God you all claim to serve that this will not happen since i am seeking truth from those who claim to have it. Will my questions be banned or will truth come to light by inspiration of God proving to me and many others that God is real and the true worshippers of God can receive truth about God from God, thus proving that God is real?

    I look forward to the answers of those inspired and those not inspired (even though they may think they are). For the purpose of this thread, I want to know when the start time of the 3 days and 3 nights prophecy began, and why YOUR perception should you choose to participate, is greater than the other denominational perceptions presented.

    Later or in another thread, we will discuss if this study makes a good case for Jesus fulfilling the 4 day time specific prophecy of the Passover Lamb since there is not much evidence on the internet or in the bible gospels concerning this. There is other ancient historical references used by the author to present that Jesus fulfilled the 4 day time specific prophecy of the Passover Lamb, but that is a whole new conversation all together.

    Blessings in search of the truth.
     
  2. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    ramrod8789

    I have not had the time to read the whole web site you posted but I did look over several of the charts. Take a look at the site below. I think you will discover that it agrees with much of the info on your site.

    http://www.goodnewsministry.com/appendixes/app156.htm

    Most Christian churches think Christ was Crucified on a Friday because He needed to be in the tomb before the start of the sabbath. The mistake they make is they do not realize that the sabbath being talked about was the high sabbath of Passover. There were two sabbaths that week. The high sabbath of Passover and the regular weekly sabbath.
     
  3. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    This is highly detailed in a study called The Jonah Code by Michael Rood, this can be found on youtube and is 10-12 hours long. I've only had time to watch it once, so cant quite recall what episode speaks of the high sabbath ( should be SABBATON in Greek, to distinguish from it being the weekly sabbath ) but the whole 10-12 hour study is detailing all the ways in which 3 days and 3 nights cannot ever be counted correctly according to the consensus thought.


    Edit: maybe THE best thing to add here, The Lord's Supper was NOT the passover meal, this was the institution of the Memorial ... all the events leading up to and including the crucifixion were mirroring EXACTLY the preparations for passover, with the slaughtering of the lamb occurring right as He died on the stake. The spring feasts or festivals ( moedim in Hebrew, found in Lev. 23 ) are the foretelling of Messiah's coming and the fall feasts are foretelling His return.
     
  4. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    There may very well be some variations due to the differing testimonies of Christian men regarding this specific topic.

    When you have completed your exercise ramrod8789 , you will have produced yet another variation.

    And you are asking us who causes variations?
     
  5. Martin W.

    Martin W. New Member

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    ramrod8789 If you like precise mathematics , times and dates you will be happy to know that NASA recently came up with the most precise length of a year that has ever been determined.

    Using 3000 year old bible prophecy given in Jewish years of 360 days and converting it to our Julian years according to NASA precision Jesus rode into Jerusalem at 5 pm exactly on time as predicted. This could only be proven accurately within the last 5 years or so.

    The calculation take several pages but I do not feel like reproducing it here. Besides , many people do not want the proof in the first place. It undermines their purpose.

    Martin W.
     
  6. 01CobraVortech

    01CobraVortech New Member

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    Welcome RamRod.

    I agree it should really be called Good Thursday.
     
  7. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    NASA has no way of looking back into when the barley was aviv to see which and how many of those previous years had a 13th month.
     
  8. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    Ok i have only briefly looked over your link and it seems (from what i read) to support my belief on what happened in the week of the execution of the Messiah Jesus. We on this forum have discussed this before you might be able to find the thread. But to provide a cut down view of the week as i believe it to be i give you the following day by day comentry

    PASSION WEEK

    Note: The Jewish days are night first - then day

    Tuesday day
    Jesus' disciples prepare for the Passover.
    Matt 26:17-19
    Luke 22:7-13

    Tuesday night (Jewish 4th day of the week begins)
    The Lord's Passover - 14th day of the 1st month Lev 23:5
    The last supper -
    Matt 26:20-29
    Luke 22:15-18

    Prayer in Gethsememne -
    Matt 26:36-45
    Luke 22:40-46

    Jesus arrested -
    Matt 26:50-55
    Matt 27:1-38

    Wednesday day - Jewish preparation day for High Sabbath
    (day 1 Feast of Unleaven Bread)
    Jesus crucified around 9 a.m.-
    Matt 27:31-44
    Luke 23:26-43

    Darkness covers the land at noon time-
    Matt 27:45
    Luke 23:26-43

    Jesus died around 3 p.m.-
    Matt 27:50-56
    Luke 23:45-49

    Jesus buried hastily between 3 p.m. and sunset-
    Matt 27:57-66
    Luke 23:50-56

    Wednesday night (Jewish 5th day of the week begins - 15th day of the 1st month - day 1 of the feast of unleaven bread begins - a High Sabbath)
    Jesus in tomb-
    1st night in the belly of the earth

    Thursday day
    Jesus in tomb-
    1st day in the belly of the earth

    Thursday night (Jewish 6th day of the week begins - end 15th day of the 1st month - end of the High Sabbath)
    Jesus in tomb-
    2nd night in the belly of the earth

    Friday day
    Jesus in tomb-
    2nd day in the belly of the earth

    Friday night (Jewish 7th day of the week begins - the Sabbath according to the commandment)
    Jesus in tomb-
    3rd night in the belly of the earth

    Saturday day
    Jesus in tomb-
    3rd day in the belly of the earth - final part of three days and three nights

    Jesus arose between 3 p.m. and sunset
    Two Marys go to see the tomb . . . He's not there . . . He is risen!
    Matt 28:1

    Saturday night - (Jewish 1st day of the week begins - 7th day Sabbath ends)
    Multiple trips made to the tomb - see post above.

    Sunday day
    He appeared to some of His diciples and they all gather together for fear of the Jews
    Matt 28:16-20
    Mark 16:9-14
    Luke 24:1-47
    John 20:19



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days

    PS: from studies i have seen the 14th of nissan happened on a wednesday in the years 30AD and 31AD many who have made studies of the birthdate of the Messiah Jesus support a pre year 1AD birth date many support 4/5BC time frame this would work well with the years 30AD/31AD as being good candidates as to the time of the Messiahs crucifixion. Jesus was said to be about 33 when He was killed. Although the exact age of Jesus was not known to his followers but it was said that He was about 30 when He began preaching.
     
  9. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    Oh I just had to reply to this parragraph and put you right:

    NO.... You must not place your eternal destiny in the hands of any other human being upon earth.

    IT IS NOT the work of the lowly messangers that saves the soul of anyone, and if you are depending on the work of another man for the eternal desitiantion of your soul then i trully hope that God gives you a good slap in the back of the head to make you WAKE UP and make you listen to the calling of the one that does move souls. That one being the HOLY SPIRIT.

    Philippians 2
    12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

    You take responsability for your reaction to the information that the Holy Spirit has caused you to come to. You do not need any other human being in this world to make or break your salvation.

    Look back in scriptures to the story of Noah. What if Naoh had the same thinking? What if he waited for another human being to confirim the will of God that came to Him to build the Arc? He would be drowned would he not??

    Read the Word of Jesus and understand you are living in the end times and may the Holy Spirit reveal the significance of what Jesus was saying here.

    Matthew 24
    37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

    How many true followers of God where there in the Days of Naoh ?

    Jesus also said:

    Luke 18
    8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  10. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Ad, I can go along with this time table, just remember that the Hebrew day begin at sunset and ends the next sunset. That is maybe what you meant with night. :)
     
  11. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    Yes thats what i meant with the night first and then the day. :)

    The first day of the Jewish week starts at saturday sunset and ends on sunday sunset.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  12. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    Since this goes back to the first few chapt. of Gen. wouldnt that make it a SCRIPTURAL day, rather than a Jewish one ?
     
  13. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    Correct.

    You could also call it a God Day.

    I referred to it as Jewish because it is observed by Jews who seek to be Torah compliant. You will see in isreal late on friday afternoon just before sunset these Jews in a rush to get home before the sun sets. They believe the day starts at sunset as the scriptures establish.


    Genisis 1
    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  14. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    I do not want to change the subject but just adding a thought. I agree that the day began with the evening, so why do so many believe that the Day of the Lord, at the end of this age begins in the morning. Christ returns in the morning but the day of the Lord will have all ready begun a number of hours earlier. We can move this thought to a new topic if anyone wants to discuss it more.
     
  15. Adstar

    Adstar New Member

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    I have never heard it said that people believe that Jesus will return in the morning. i would be interested to know where this belief came from.

    I have no idea what time of the day Jesus will return. If i had to make a guess it probably will be at the time He died or was resurected. Both where in the late afternoon. But as the scriptures say no one will know the hour.

    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  16. JarBreaker

    JarBreaker New Member

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    John 9:4
    As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work.

    He comes as a thief in the night, the "picture" of this has been carried on in the Hebrew/Jewish courtship/betrothal traditions ... even though they did not accept Him. The groom will go away from his bride-to-be, prepare a place for them to live, then return to "steal her away" in the dead of the night, without alerting her/her parents or anyone else,( noone knows the day or hour ).
     
  17. write2witness

    write2witness New Member

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    So you discount the existence of God based on what some people have said? That's pretty sad.

    God has provided a wonderful salvation through Christ as revealed in the Bible - all it takes is faith (belief) in Jesus Christ.

    The question of what one must do to be saved was asked long ago by the Philippian jailor in Acts 16:30. Paul and Silas had been beaten and thrown into prison in Philippi, with their feet fastened in the stocks. In this painful condition they could not sleep, so they sang praises to God. Scripture records that at midnight, as they were praying, there was an earthquake that broke them loose from their bonds and opened the prison doors. The jailor, rushing out and seeing the doors opened, assumed that the prisoners had fled. Because the law demanded that a jailor who lost prisoners should be put to death, he was about to commit suicide when Paul called out to him to do himself no harm because they were still all there. In response to this information, Scripture records that the jailor, after calling for some lights, fell down before Paul, trembling and pleading, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16:30). Paul and Silas both immediately responded as recorded in Acts 16:31, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved..."

    It's as simple as that. You see, people over complicate things, but with God it's pretty simple. Don't base your faith on what people say. Instead base it on your faith, on what God has told us concerning His Son, Jesus Christ. For it is only by believing upon Him (as Paul told the jailer) that you can experience true salvation. People can't save you, but Jesus surely can.

    Amen.

    If you would like to read more about this here is a very informative page about biblical scripture, as it pertains to being "saved" - http://bible.org/seriespage/what-must-i-do-be-saved
     
  18. brionne

    brionne Active Member

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    I had a look at that link and have to admit that I found it a bit hard to follow. I think there is a much simpler way of proving that jesus certainly did fulfill the accurate timing of his prophetic arrival, death and resurrection.

    Daniel is certainly the correct prophet for giving us the timing of the messiahs appearance and time of death.

    The prophecy is found in Daniel 9:24-27
    24 “There are seventy weeks that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, and to finish off sin, and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to imprint a seal upon vision and prophet, and to anoint the Holy of Holies.
    25 And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes‧si′ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.
    26 “And after the sixty-two weeks Mes‧si′ah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the city and the holy place the people of a leader that is coming will bring to their ruin. And the end of it will be by the flood. And until [the] end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations.
    27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. “And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, the very thing decided upon will go pouring out also upon the one lying desolate.”



    These 70 weeks are agreed by most scholars including Jewish scholars that they are infact 'weeks of years'. So these 70 weeks of years total 490 years.
    Vs 25 shows that the 490 years will begin with 'the going forth of the word to restore and rebuild Jerusalem' and will include 2 time periods. The first is 7 weeks (49yrs), the 2nd is 62 weeks (434yrs).
    Vs 27 says there will be a final time period of 1 week (7yrs) and in the middle of that final 'week' the Messiah will 'cause sacrifice and offering to cease'..

    In total we now have 70 weeks (490yrs) from the going forth of the word to restore Jerusalem. So when did that restoration happen? This is when we need other scriptures to inform us because much of the bible is actually a 'history' of the nation of isreal.

    It was Nehemiah who was given the ok to go and rebuild Jerusalem after its destruction by Babylon in the year 607bce. In Nehemiah 2:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 he presents his request to the king Artaxerxes that he be permitted to go and rebuild Jerusalem, and he is granted permission in the month Nisan in the 20th year of Artaxerxes reign.
    We know that 455bce would have been Artaxerxes 20th year because his father Xerxes died toward the end of 475bce. So Artaxerxes first 'regnal' year would begin after serving as King for 12 months, hence his 1st year would have been late in 474bce. Add 19 years to 474bce and it brings us to 455bce for a total of 20 yrs as king.

    So in the month of Nisan of 455bce the word to rebuild and restore Jerusalem went forth. Nehemiah was given financial aid & legal permission to rebuild Jerusalem. The wall was finished fairly quickly, but the rest of jerusalem took many more years to complete....that work was the first time period mentioned by Daniel....the 7 weeks. And until the arrival of Jesus in 29ce, there was exactly 483yrs.



    Now for the details of Daniels prophecy.
    Vs 25 says from the going forth of the word 'until Messiah the Leader' arrives. The calculation is this 455bce - 483yrs = 28CE + 1yr (as there is no 0 yr between bce & bc) = 29CE The very year Jesus was baptized & began preaching.

    Vs 26 says 'messiah will be cut off' This is obvioulsy refering to his death which happened on Nisan 14, 33ce. This happened 3 & 1/2 years into Jesus ministry OR according to vs 26 'the middle of the week' being 3.5 yrs after his arrival =33CE

    Vs 27 mentions the 'covenant will be kept in place for 1 week' (7yrs) but in the middle of that week he will cause sacrifices to cease. The Abrahamic covenant (Acts 3:25,26) was kept in place for the entire 7 years in order to give the Jews the first priority to become sharers in the 'new covenant'. At the end of the week, the gentiles were invited to become sharers of that new covenant arrangement for worship. The end of that 7 years saw the inclusion into the new covenant of the first gentile Cornelius. Acts 10:1,3,4,5,9,10,11,12, 13,14,15

    The 'sacrifice and gift offering' ceased in the middle of the week when Jesus laid down his life for forgiveness of sins. Hebrews 10:18

    Then came the final blow to Jerusalem as Vs 27 says that it will be “And upon the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation" this finally happened in 70ce when Rome completely destroyed Jerusalem and killed around 1 million jews by locking them inside the city of Jerusalem and slaughtering them. This proved beyond all doubt that God had done away with the mosaic law code which was administered by the levitical priesthood which was completely done away with after 70ce.
     
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