Whatever happened to the simple Gospel message on salvation and heaven and hell?

[Mayflower]

anyone narcissistic and useless enough is avoided by all of his fellows and cut off. He might even become a billionaire, and might possibly not even suicide, but unless he changes his mind the last part won't matter anyway. Understand I AM, and put the right context on Revelations, and the statement gets clearer imo. You are reading about an event that might happen in real-time, not in some imagined future. Happened yesterday, happening today, will happen tomorrow. "anyone who does not pursue what brings life will experience death." meaning the walking dead

I completely lost you

 

[Stranger]

I completely lost you

Don't worry. You're in a long line.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I completely lost you

Christ is not revealed to the world; Christ is revealed in you. And this last one is the proper context from which to interpret Revelations.

now i don't expect a little discourse by Some Guy on the internet to sway you here, but fwiw i got dragged to this...knowledge that brings sorrow the same way you are, bit by bit, via the preponderance of more and more bits of Scripture, over time. And i don't blame you for believing the knowledge that brings you joy either.

you might ponder how we got sold the lie that the part of us that is supposed to "die," at baptism--the ego, the part we consider "me"--might possibly get into some place in the afterlife called "heaven?" This is Mithraism/the Cult of Sol, introduced to Christianity by Rome and the Catholic church, but rampant even in Christ's era, and the Bible is even written so as to be misunderstood by Mithraists, the wise.

those phrases can all be googled for more, or as soon as you accept the possibility and start seeing it, all over Scripture.
i could give you prolly 20 vv off the top of my head
all go to the same place
the dead know nothing
don't be afraid; what do you see? i see a spirit coming up from the earth
etc
Understand I AM

 

[bbyrd009]

but look i'm pushing you off a cliff ok
your "church" is of course going to Ex you, your wife is gonna flip along with the rest of the fam, and you aRE GOING TO FIND YOURSELF WALKING DOWN oops the road with no extra shirt or shoes, heading to the next town. if you're weak you'll stop to talk to an acquaintance. etc. don't find love until you are ready ok, there's plenty to learn in a "church," even if by the left
have a nice weekend
count the cost

 

[Mayflower]

So are you saying you don't believe in Heaven?

 

[Stranger]

So are you saying you don't believe in Heaven?

He is really a muslim. He just doesn't like to say it. He is too ashamed.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

So are you saying you don't believe in Heaven?

pretty much, ya. at least as defined by the world; we are now God's children, but it is not yet clear what we shall become
the kingdom of heaven is within you




"
The words Christ (that's Greek) and Messiah (that's Hebrew) are not names reserved for one individual but rather common titles. They mean "Anointed" and were bestowed upon all prophets, (high-)priests and kings. The idea is that those officials had no earthly superior, and were thus wholly autonomous and therefore wholly responsible for their actions and the effects thereof. Despite the admirable ardor of many today, a "follower" of Jesus does not become a Christian, which is someone who pertains to the anointing, but a Christ, which is someone who partakes in the anointing (2 Corinthians 1:21, 1 John 2:20 and 2:27). The difference is not subtle. Someone who pertains to the anointing is not an anointed, is not in Christ and is a servant. Someone who partakes in the anointing is an anointed, is in Christ and is free..." http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Mary.html#.W1KY2dJKiUl

 

[Mayflower]

Now that is interesting. Are you really Muslim?

Christian actually is defined as following Christ Jesus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian

A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/ ( listen)) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. "Christian" derives from the Koine Greek word Christós (Χριστός), a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach (Biblical Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ).[7]

While there are diverse interpretations of Christianity which sometimes conflict,[8][9]they are united in believing that Jesus has a unique significance.[8] The term "Christian" is also used as an adjective to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."[10]

 

[amadeus]

Now that is interesting. Are you really Muslim?

Christian actually is defined as following Christ Jesus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian

A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/ ( listen)) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. "Christian" derives from the Koine Greek word Christós (Χριστός), a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach (Biblical Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ).[7]

While there are diverse interpretations of Christianity which sometimes conflict,[8][9]they are united in believing that Jesus has a unique significance.[8] The term "Christian" is also used as an adjective to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."[10]

Our friend is not really a muslim, but he very different than most of the followers of Christ you have ever met. Don't insist on believing all of that he believes but do pay close attention to what he is saying for sometimes, I believe, God really gives him some very good Word. You, of course, know what the Word is...

 

[Mayflower]

Our friend is not really a muslim, but he very different than most of the followers of Christ you have ever met. Don't insist on believing all of that he believes but do pay close attention to what he is saying for sometimes, I believe, God really gives him some very good Word. You, of course, know what the Word is...

I thought Stranger was being sarcastic, but I wasn't sure. Bbyrd, I really don't understand what you are talking about, but I am glad the "good news" or the Gospel is that we were lost in sin and Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins.

With the kids, colored bracelets are my favorite way to share with them the Gospel.

 

[Mayflower]

I like to tell them about Jesus rising from the dead also with the green bead. I think Jesus Christ's resurrection is just as important in the Gospel

 

[bbyrd009]

Christian actually is defined as following Christ Jesus.

Who will plainly tell you where heaven is, yes, many times, many different ways, all in Scripture, and pretty much all rejected by Christians.
Are you really a Mithraist, and don't even know it? Understand that i am ok with that, ok, you don't have to address my points if you don't wanna. I'll tell you further that listening to me is prolly only going to bring you down, ok

 

[Mayflower]

Who will plainly tell you where heaven is, yes, many times, many different ways, all in Scripture, and pretty much all rejected by Christians.
Are you really a Mithraist, and don't even know it? Understand that i am ok with that, ok, you don't have to address my points if you don't wanna. I'll tell you further that listening to me is prolly only going to bring you down, ok

I can't address your points, because I don't understand what you are saying. I am not a debater really nor knowledgeable on too much Theology. I just think it is interesting and never heard your view before. I really should just read though if I am not going to address your points though. I don't even know what a Mithraist is. But the Gospel isn't about Heaven and Hell as much as what it is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. It isn't about Theology or Religion. I have been forgiven. God bless you!

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't even know what a Mithraist is.

google can tell you. It became the Cult of Sol, which is why you go to church on Sunday, among other Roman practices

But the Gospel isn't about Heaven and Hell as much as what it is what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross.

no Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die
so i know this is hard to grasp, but Jesus did not die for your sins, at least not in the manner we are taught, wadr. God did not need Jesus to come and sacrifice Himself for you, I desire mercy, not sacrifice. i know this runs counter to...everything we are told, ok, but...God did not need Adam and Eve to have a skin to be acceptable to Him, as demonstrated by the fact that He went looking for them in the Garden, and found them, naked. They had the problem, not God, right. See, they were already forgiven, just like everyone in the world is, right now. Forgiveness does not save anyone, at least not per se. as strange as that seems. Confession leads to salvation.

 

[Mayflower]

google can tell you. It became the Cult of Sol, which is why you go to church on Sunday, among other Roman practices

Yeh, I looked that up. Just like I looked up "Christian". Wikipedia is where I posted that definition and found the one definition for this also. I go to church because I follow Jesus Christ and like to fellowship with other believers. I would go to church every day if I could. But I study at home besides just Wednesday and Sunday, because I am a follower of Christ Jesus.

no Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die

so i know this is hard to grasp, but Jesus did not die for your sins, at least not in the manner we are taught, wadr. God did not need Jesus to come and sacrifice Himself for you, I desire mercy, not sacrifice.

Where is your quote from? And no, God is all-sufficient and needs nothing. But sacrifice is what He required from us to show that sin has a price, because He is also a just God. This is why Jesus died:

And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
Philippians 2:8 NKJV

Jesus Christ was obeying the will of the Father, and it was His will for a pure spotless lamb to atone for our sins, because He is merciful. He is also a just God though. Wickedness can not go unpunished. This is why He required what He did, because God will not look upon sin.

i know this runs counter to...everything we are told, ok, but...God did not need Adam and Eve to have a skin to be acceptable to Him, as demonstrated by the fact that He went looking for them in the Garden, and found them, naked. They had the problem, not God, right.

But God covered them.
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.
Genesis 3:21 NASB

He did this, because He required sacrifice. Adam and Eve tried to sew fig leaves together and this was insufficient, because they disobeyed God. This is also why God liked their son Abel's sacrifice more then Cain's.

Sin was there problem. And God was their answer.

"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Romans 5:14‭-‬15‭, ‬21 NASB

See, they were already forgiven, just like everyone in the world is, right now. Forgiveness does not save anyone, at least not per se. as strange as that seems. Confession leads to salvation.

According to Romans 5. They were not. In fact, in Genesis, God told them if they touch the tree or eat of it, they would die. This was both a physical and spiritual death.

Also, This is what the Bible says:

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 NASB


that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Romans 10:9 NASB

Confession of sins result in sanctification.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9 NASB

This is where we have fellowship with God when we confess our sins to Him.

 

[bbyrd009]

He did this, because He required sacrifice.

or so you are told, yes
I desire mercy, not sacrifice

 

[bbyrd009]

Where is your quote from?

Matthew 9:13
Hosea 6:6

 

[Mayflower]

Okay, so here is the context of Matthew 9:13

When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, "Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?" But when Jesus heard this, He said, " It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire compassion , and not sacrifice ,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Then the disciples of John came to Him, asking, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast, but Your disciples do not fast?" And Jesus said to them, "The attendants of the bridegroom cannot mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, can they? But the days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast. But no one puts a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and a worse tear results. Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved."
Matthew 9:11‭-‬17 NASB

Meaning people will no longer be under the law, but under grace.

 

[Mayflower]

And context of Hoses 6:6...

What shall I do with you, O Ephraim? What shall I do with you, O Judah? For your loyalty is like a morning cloud And like the dew which goes away early. Therefore I have hewn them in pieces by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of My mouth; And the judgments on you are like the light that goes forth. For I delight in loyalty rather than sacrifice, And in the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. But like Adam they have transgressed the covenant; There they have dealt treacherously against Me. Gilead is a city of wrongdoers, Tracked with bloody footprints. And as raiders wait for a man, So a band of priests murder on the way to Shechem; Surely they have committed crime. In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing; Ephraim's harlotry is there, Israel has defiled itself. Also, O Judah, there is a harvest appointed for you, When I restore the fortunes of My people.
Hosea 6:4‭-‬11 NASB

God is merciful, but is also just.

 

[Helen]

Except now I am a little confused, because the Father turned His head when Jesus was on the cross...

Another one that someone told you.
There is no biblical verse for that.
Some use " Why have You forsaken me.." but it was not because God had to look away of forsook Him...

Jesus came as man..He died as a man for us ...He was our only hope of salvation ...man sinned in the Garden and caused the great divide ...only man could redeem the situation.

Jesus on the cross while dying, felt for the first time the true weight of the sins of every man. He bore it alone. We cannot even imagine.

God on the other hand SAW the travail of His soul , and was satisfied. Just the opposite of turning away.
Isaiah 53:11 " He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: ...for he shall bear their iniquities. "

Maybe God not being able to look at sin or the sinner makes good preaching.. but that doesn't mean it is true!!!!

If it were true then we would all be without hope.

~ . ~