When He Returns!

[bbyrd009]

you might notice it is no longer a belief, but a "truth" now?

shouldn't this "truth" be Witnessed by many, many instances of "Jesus shuvu" or "Christ shuvu" in Scripture? (Shuvu is "return" in Hebrew)
Yet ppl cannot even Quote a single one?

Similarly, if your belief is that you might attain heaven after you physically die, shouldn't you be able to Quote a soul going to heaven after they died at least a couple times, for a Witness?
Can anyone Quote a single one?

I'm talking to all the Oracles in here, who say they know; now is your chance to shine!
If you are a literalist, this should be cake for you, right, either one of these, i should be so embarrassed when i come here tomorrow i should slink away and never post again!
lol

be careful that you do not get your beliefs from worms, imo

 

[amadeus]

you might notice it is no longer a belief, but a "truth" now?

Yes, unfortunately this likely not at all unusual. Rather it is why there is hope of getting together in love. They may say they have things in common in their beliefs, but not enough to give up their "liberty". It might necessitate changing a "truth".

 

[Nancy]

shouldn't this "truth" be Witnessed by many, many instances of "Jesus shuvu" or "Christ shuvu" in Scripture?
Yet ppl cannot even Quote a single one?

Similarly, if your belief is that you might attain heaven after you physically die, shouldn't you be able to Quote a soul going to heaven after they died at least a couple times, for a Witness?
Can anyone Quote a single one?

I'm talking to all the Oracles in here, who say they know; now is your chance to shine!
If you are a literalist, this should be cake for you, right, either one of these, i should be so embarrassed when i come here tomorrow i should slink away and never post again!
lol

be careful that you do not get your beliefs from worms, imo

Sry Mark, I have no Oracle wisdom for you, lol...but a question. When you mention ""Christ shuvu", are you talking about these folks? Shuvah Yisrael Messianic Synagogue | Our Mission

 

[Naomi25]

Sin is rampant in the world! But He does not come again to save the world from sin - for He has finished it already.

You misunderstand. As He said, "the world will see me no more."

When He said "He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die." -- "Do you believe this?"

So, then, what you are seeing now is not Him delaying His coming - but you delaying your own belief in His complete ability to manage the salvation and resurrection of many yesterday, you today, and still others tomorrow. Just as Paul explained, "each in his own order."

Nonetheless, in the end you "will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory" ...that being the spiritual glory of God - not a worldly defeat of Roman, as those who crucified Him also thought.

Honestly, I disagree with you strongly on this matter, on multiple issues. But I doubt continuing the discussion or posting more verses will lead to any agreement of greater understanding between us. So...I'm just going to bow out of the conversation.

 

[Naomi25]

My superficial understanding of what you wrote seemingly puts us apart as it seems to be a key part of your explanation. I cannot accept the premise that OSAS [Once Saved Always Saved] is correct, so I we may be finished for moment as I won't discuss our differences on that point here.

Thank you for your efforts here.

 

[Naomi25]

yes, you must die at baptism and leave the world, and have Christ revealed in your heart, before you can move into God's kingdom
imo

He has put an end to death and has brought Life and Immortality to light
He has offered Himself one time to destroy sin by His sacrifice.

Either you are the Body of Christ, or you are not, and your eye is your lamp here wadr.

Ah, I'm not sure how to really say this. I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not going to reply. You and I think so differently that I honestly don't think any conversation is going to go well, or be in any way edifying for anyone. So, finally learning from my past errors, I'm just not going to go down that path again, Okay?

 

[Stumpmaster]

1Co 15:50-53
(50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[Stumpmaster]

1Th 4:14-18
(14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Rev 1:7
(7) Behold, he comes with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Stumpmaster]

1Jn 3:1-3
(1) Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
(2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(3) And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

 

[Jay Ross]

Really, @Stumpmaster, yes we are told that certain people will see and experience the power of Christ in the near future, probably 20-30 years hence, but the Coming of Christ in all of His Glory with all of the Hosts of Heaven is still around 1,000 to 1,100 years into our distant future.

How do I know this? Because that is the timeline given in the scriptures.

The end of this ages is sign marked by the wicked fallen heavenly hosts in heaven being judged in heaven at the same time that the kings of the earth are judged at the Armageddon assembly point near Jerusalem, when Christ will be seen from Jerusalem by the nation of Israel and they will seek His terms of Peace. Isa. 24:21-22, Jude 6, Luke 14:31-32. After this we will see the Wedding feast of Christ, but only fleetingly.

There will be no pre-trib rapture in our near future, but it is reserved for our distant future.

Know what I mean.

Shalom

 

[Stumpmaster]

How do I know this? Because that is the timeline given in the scriptures.

How so?

 

[Stranger]

Honestly, I disagree with you strongly on this matter, on multiple issues. But I doubt continuing the discussion or posting more verses will lead to any agreement of greater understanding between us. So...I'm just going to bow out of the conversation.

You are correct that Jesus Christ will return and to disagree with all who say otherwise. The problem always lies in the methods of interpretation. Thus it is impossible to come to any agreement.

I am amazed however that this 'spiritualizing' method of interpretation has now led some to deny the Second Coming of Christ. What is next? What will be 'spiritualized' away. Using this method many say satan is not a real being. They say he is just an allegory of evil, given to us to help us understand the fight between good and evil. But, not a real being. And of course we all know what they do with 'Israel'. God was not concerned with a literal Israel. All the believers are 'spiritual Israel'.

Indeed, using this 'spiritualizing' method one could deny most anything in the Bible. I wonder how safe the First Coming of Christ is under this method. God of love surely wouldn't send a man to the cross to die like that. That is just showing us how much God is against us doing bad things. It shows how much God hates evil and so wants us always to do good. It is a good story, but not literal. And it easier to do this when you don't consider the Bible as the Word of God as many here don't.

And,why stop there? How about Jesus Christ Himself? We can 'spiritualize' Him away just as easy. He represents the good and satan represents the evil. But neither really existed. The Hebrews simply developed these allegorical stories to show the on going fight of good and evil in the world and that we must just keep doing good. Keep being good people. (sarcasm, for those who missed it)

For any who deny the Second Coming consider these verses.

1.) The First Coming. (Heb. 9:26) " ....now once in the end of the ages hath appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

2.) Leaving and and taking His place in the Heaven. (Heb. 9:24) "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands...but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God.

3.) The Second Coming. (Heb. 9:28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him, shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1.) 'hath appeared

2. 'now to appear'

3.) 'shall appear the second time'

(Zechariah 14:4) "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives...and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof..."

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Sry Mark, I have no Oracle wisdom for you, lol...but a question. When you mention ""Christ shuvu", are you talking about these folks? Shuvah Yisrael Messianic Synagogue | Our Mission

"shuvu" is transliterated Hebrew for "return," sorry. If you click the link below it will show you in the Lex

Malachi 3:7 Lexicon: "From the days of your fathers you have turned aside from My statutes and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you," says the LORD of hosts. "But you say, 'How shall we return?'

 

[bbyrd009]

Behold, he comes with clouds

ah, this is likely the most obvious clue in those passages, deciphering what "clouds" rep

and i'm not being coy, i am just not the arbiter of your definitions, you can believe what clouds rep all by yourself i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

These ppl telling you that Christ is somewhere else, or that you are going somewhere else, they are doomed, ok, and see all you have to do is ask for a Quote and be a little bit critical and not self-serving on the interpretation--be the parent instead of the kid iow, stop looking for candy all of the time, and come down off the sugar rush already--and the worms will wiggle right off, see, or if i'm missing something here, then this is the place to bring it out, pls don't spare my feelings!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shouldn't this "truth" be Witnessed by many, many instances of "Jesus shuvu" or "Christ shuvu" in Scripture?
(Shuvu is "return" in Hebrew)
Yet ppl cannot even Quote a single one?
And when you go looking, all you can find is
Return to Me, and I will return to you

Similarly, if your belief is that you might attain heaven after you physically die, shouldn't you be able to Quote a soul going to heaven after they died at least a couple times, two different places, for a Witness?
Can anyone Quote a single one?
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man.
on earth as it is in heaven

I'm talking to all the Oracles in here, who say they know; now is your chance to shine!
If you are a literalist, this should be cake for you, right, either one of these, i should be so embarrassed when i come here tomorrow i should slink away and never post again!
lol

be careful that you do not get your beliefs from worms, imo
those little kids who do what they want despite direct orders to the contrary and then make ridiculous justifications later pretending that they did not understand, or trying to get off on a literal technicality? Remember? They all sounded cock-sure at the crime-time too, huh

 

[amadeus]

You are correct that Jesus Christ will return and to disagree with all who say otherwise. The problem always lies in the methods of interpretation. Thus it is impossible to come to any agreement.

I am amazed however that this 'spiritualizing' method of interpretation has now led some to deny the Second Coming of Christ. What is next? What will be 'spiritualized' away. Using this method many say satan is not a real being. They say he is just an allegory of evil, given to us to help us understand the fight between good and evil. But, not a real being. And of course we all know what they do with 'Israel'. God was not concerned with a literal Israel. All the believers are 'spiritual Israel'.

Indeed, using this 'spiritualizing' method one could deny most anything in the Bible. I wonder how safe the First Coming of Christ is under this method. God of love surely wouldn't send a man to the cross to die like that. That is just showing us how much God is against us doing bad things. It shows how much God hates evil and so wants us always to do good. It is a good story, but not literal. And it easier to do this when you don't consider the Bible as the Word of God as many here don't.

And,why stop there? How about Jesus Christ Himself? We can 'spiritualize' Him away just as easy. He represents the good and satan represents the evil. But neither really existed. The Hebrews simply developed these allegorical stories to show the on going fight of good and evil in the world and that we must just keep doing good. Keep being good people. (sarcasm, for those who missed it)

For any who deny the Second Coming consider these verses.

1.) The First Coming. (Heb. 9:26) " ....now once in the end of the ages hath appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

2.) Leaving and and taking His place in the Heaven. (Heb. 9:24) "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands...but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God.

3.) The Second Coming. (Heb. 9:28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him, shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1.) 'hath appeared

2. 'now to appear'

3.) 'shall appear the second time'

(Zechariah 14:4) "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives...and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof..."

Stranger

Thank you for this simple explanation with the scriptural references. As I said before I do not deny such a coming, call it second or something else, but you're the first one here who very simply explained why you believe it. I will reconsider what I have said previously in light of your words. Thank you again.

 

[ScottA]

Honestly, I disagree with you strongly on this matter, on multiple issues. But I doubt continuing the discussion or posting more verses will lead to any agreement of greater understanding between us. So...I'm just going to bow out of the conversation.

The last verse I quoted was Jesus' last word to those who did the same, and why I quoted it...but they crucified Him. Thanks for just bowing out.

 

[Stranger]

Thank you for this simple explanation with the scriptural references. As I said before I do not deny such a coming, call it second or something else, but you're the first one here who very simply explained why you believe it. I will reconsider what I have said previously in light of your words. Thank you again.

You're quite welcome.

Stranger