When He Returns!

[ScottA]

So, you consider yourself with those who reject Christ and therefore Christ speaks to you in parable? Interesting.

Stranger

Keep blabbing, your criticisms give you away.

 

[Nancy]

Most of the time, conversing with you is a guessing game of what you are talking about.
Understanding the difference between carnal understanding and spiritual understanding is challenging enough without trying to cipher your meaning without an urban dictonary.

God Bless,
Taken

Hahahaha I pretty much enjoy Mark's posts. Probably not so much if they were lengthy, lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

i guess deciphering didn't help much either, as it turns out. big surprise, huh

Nah, I'll pass.

God Bless,
Taken

well you passed back at post #whatever i guess, but thanks for...the head's up then?

 

[brakelite]

if you like, sure.
Be careful imo how you ID this "future" tho, bc a belief in "Death, more abundantly" makes a very obvious statement

God has not promised an abundant death. What He has promised is a new heavens and a new earth, where the old is passed away and all things become new. The cross licences us, gives us legal title, to that new earth...sanctification and our growing in grace makes us fit for that new earth. Christ is coming again. Physically, powerfully, and visibly. All the writers of the NT, despite having Christ in them then, despite having the holy Spirit abiding within, even because they had the holy Spirit abiding within, proclaimed in unison that death is not the end. There is hope, not in death, but in the resurrection. Hope, not in the present earth with all its pollution, brutality, violence and evil, but in a new earth filled with joy and peace. Like Abraham, who recognised his ultimate goal was not an earthly city built by man, but a heavenly city built by God Himself. There is no spiritualising away the truth of the literal coming of Jesus.

 

[Taken]

Agreed, thanks for your edifying remarks.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

God has not promised an abundant death. What He has promised is a new heavens and a new earth, where the old is passed away and all things become new. The cross licences us, gives us legal title, to that new earth...sanctification and our growing in grace makes us fit for that new earth. Christ is coming again. Physically, powerfully, and visibly. All the writers of the NT, despite having Christ in them then, despite having the holy Spirit abiding within, even because they had the holy Spirit abiding within, proclaimed in unison that death is not the end. There is hope, not in death, but in the resurrection. Hope, not in the present earth with all its pollution, brutality, violence and evil, but in a new earth filled with joy and peace. Like Abraham, who recognised his ultimate goal was not an earthly city built by man, but a heavenly city built by God Himself. There is no spiritualising away the truth of the literal coming of Jesus.

Return to Me, and I will return to you plainly illuminates who needs to return i guess, so maybe God just doesn't realize who you are or something, i don't know.

 

[bbyrd009]

fwiw to you guys, i even hope that Jesus returns to save you again, and on a white horse too, i wish you the best of luck with that, or with your imminent departure, or whatever it is the cultists have convinced you of next too ok. And any time you want to actually have a discussion, like grown-ups, i can redirect you to the posts that you currently refuse to address too if you like, or you can keep pretending they don't exist, the Scriptures in them i mean, idc

 

[Nancy]

God has not promised an abundant death. What He has promised is a new heavens and a new earth, where the old is passed away and all things become new. The cross licences us, gives us legal title, to that new earth...sanctification and our growing in grace makes us fit for that new earth. Christ is coming again. Physically, powerfully, and visibly. All the writers of the NT, despite having Christ in them then, despite having the holy Spirit abiding within, even because they had the holy Spirit abiding within, proclaimed in unison that death is not the end. There is hope, not in death, but in the resurrection. Hope, not in the present earth with all its pollution, brutality, violence and evil, but in a new earth filled with joy and peace. Like Abraham, who recognised his ultimate goal was not an earthly city built by man, but a heavenly city built by God Himself. There is no spiritualising away the truth of the literal coming of Jesus.

I agree @brakelite
Sorry Mark, I'm with B.L. here.
Is not the description of the 2nd coming of Jesus exactly what the Jews were looking for when Jesus came as a suffering servant? They were expecting the King of Kings to come and free them from the oppression of Rome...it seems they were blinded to the scriptures foretelling His 1st coming, in order to bring in the New Covenant. The Jews believe that the suffering servant scriptures are referring to Israel, not a person, and certainly not "their" Messiah...who in His 2nd coming WILL come a Lord of Lords, King of Kings, He will wage war in righteousness...He will come with ALL power!

 

[Enoch111]

fwiw to you guys, i even hope that Jesus returns to save you again, and on a white horse too, i wish you the best of luck with that, or with your imminent departure, or whatever it is the cultists have convinced you of next too ok.

Another rant from bbyrd009. Do you even have a clue about what Scripture reveals, or are you focused on philosophical musings which are unprofitable?

1. Jesus does NOT return to save those who are saved "over again". He comes to judge the unrighteous and then establish His Kingdom.

2. Luck has NOTHING TO DO with the second coming of Christ. God has already planned and purposed this a long time ago.

3. It is NOT cultists but genuine Christians who look for the Rapture.

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree @brakelite
Sorry Mark, I'm with B.L. here.
Is not the description of the 2nd coming of Jesus exactly what the Jews were looking for when Jesus came as a suffering servant? They were expecting the King of Kings to come and free them from the oppression of Rome...it seems they were blinded to the scriptures foretelling His 1st coming, in order to bring in the New Covenant. The Jews believe that the suffering servant scriptures are referring to Israel, not a person, and certainly not "their" Messiah...who in His 2nd coming WILL come a Lord of Lords, King of Kings, He will wage war in righteousness...He will come with ALL power!

then maybe you would like to address the Scriptures that they will not, but tbh i have no dog in this hunt, and i know where the Body of Christ is already. bl is replying to week old posts with a sermon on nothing new to avoid day old posts that make him uncomfortable, and wadr to you both i am done here until someone actually addresses the points.

Yes, the description is exactly what those doomed ppl were looking for too, and we are already aware that we will read what we want to read, right? So keep assuredly quoting Paul as having said "absent from the body is present with the Lord," and understand that i do not even blame you ok, it was written that way on purpose. All go to the same place means you are going to the same place i am going, regardless, right? Iow i am not condemning anyone, ok, you guys are perfectly within your rights to believe that you need the whole armor of God to go to an endless party with Jesus if you want. You don't have to address any Scripture i Quote that makes you uncomfortable; there is no law for this.

i have heaven right here, i live in a world your great-grandfather would laugh and call me a liar if i could go back 100 years and describe it to him, and wadr the only hell on earth that i see is propagated by those who demand your best and brightest, and you pay taxes to; bam keep serving them. I guess in the same spot i would be desperately seeking any knowledge that might bring me some joy too.

I don't know what i will become after i physically die, and you guys seem to be really sure of what you are going to become, so maybe you are the ones people should be listening to. When you all get to heaven you can have a big day of rejoicing, and i'll be eating crow then i guess huh

 

[bbyrd009]

it seems they were blinded to the scriptures foretelling His 1st coming...who in His 2nd coming WILL come a Lord of Lords, King of Kings, He will wage war in righteousness...He will come with ALL power!

yay!

 

[bbyrd009]

Christ appears, He comes (but not back; except in English), He is revealed, but He does not return (and you cannot Quote it),
bc what is being described is a change in your perception

until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts

 

[amadeus]

I will never leave you, nor forsake you
Return to Me, and I will return to you
until the day dawns and the morning star (Christ) arises in your hearts.

run from ppl telling you that they are waiting for Jesus to return, if you know what's good for you

I have been reading back and forth through some of the posts on this thread trying to understand what people are saying and/or believing, but only occasionally getting a little daylight. @ScottA has given me a flicker, but he's often too deep for me. I am also of where you @bbyrd009 are.

I don't understand what people say they are believing about a second coming. To me Jesus came to us the first time when he was born to Mary in Bethlehem and during that first time beginning at age 30 he ministered to us. Why wouldn't the second coming be when he comes into our hearts, if he does? Why should another arrival be needed if He is in us already?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

If that is not speaking of the second coming, what is it then, a part B of the first coming?

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Heb 9:28

When do we do this looking for Him? Is that not what we did when we first heard Him calling to us? Did we not respond by repentance and He responded by filling us with Himself? What more should we look for but this which is what He told us to seek?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

If we are seeking always the first things first [God's kingdom, God's righteousness], is His promise not good? "All these things shall be added unto you."

Is He coming again tomorrow or next week or next year to us... or is He not already with us and/or in us?

"Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:11

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

What was it that they saw, those men of Galilee? What is it that we see or have seen? Without the Holy Ghost, what was it that our blind, unperceptive flesh saw? Where and what is heaven? Up? Which direction is that? Which way have we been looking, searching?
When a man repented and opened up his heart, did not Jesus come inside to have a place to lay His head? Is this not where Jesus is... within us? But then...?

"And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:62

When Jesus was "no more in the world" [John 17:11], where was He? Was He not already "in heaven"? Instead of looking here or there or wherever some man told us to look, what if we looked inside of ourselves?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

So Christ is in us sitting at the right hand of power and the power is...? Is it not God? Is not God's kingdom within us?

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

If we look within and do not see him, why can't we? Is He not there? Is our vision as through a glass darkly worse than we thought?

Without the Holy Ghost "eyes to see" have we not been blind?

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

 

[faithfulness]

I have reading back and forth through some of the posts on this thread trying to understand what people are saying and/or believing, but only occasionally getting a little daylight. @ScottA has given me a flicker, but he's often too deep for me. I am also of where you @bbyrd009 are.

I don't understand what people say they are believing about a second coming. To me Jesus came to us the first time when he was born to Mary in Bethlehem and during that first time beginning at age 30 he ministered to us. Why wouldn't the second coming be when he comes into our hearts, if he does? Why should another arrival be needed if He is in us already?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

If that is not speaking of the second coming, what is it then, a part B of the first coming?

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Heb 9:28

When do we do this looking for Him? Is that not what we did when we first heard Him calling to us? Did we not respond by repentance and He responded by filling us with Himself? What more should we look for but this which is what He told us to seek?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Matt 6:33-34

If we are seeking always the first things first [God's kingdom, God's righteousness], is His promise not good? "All these things shall be added unto you."

Is He coming again tomorrow or next week or next year to us... or is He not already with us and/or in us?

"Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Acts 1:11

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

What was it that they saw, those men of Galilee? What is it that we see or have seen? Without the Holy Ghost, what was it that our blind, unperceptive flesh saw? Where and what is heaven? Up? Which direction is that? Which way have we been looking, searching?
When a man repented and opened up his heart, did not Jesus come inside to have a place to lay His head? Is this not where Jesus is... within us? But then...?

"And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." Mark 14:62

When Jesus was "no more in the world" [John 17:11], where was He? Was He not already "in heaven"? Instead of looking here or there or wherever some man told us to look, what if we looked inside of ourselves?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

So Christ is in us sitting at the right hand of power and the power is...? Is it not God? Is not God's kingdom within us?

"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21

If we look within and do not see him, why can't we? Is He not there? Is our vision as through a glass darkly worse than we thought?

Without the Holy Ghost "eyes to see" have we not been blind?

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

To me, what little I can recite, and want to comprehend, everything has not already happened...
We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed...in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, the last trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and death and the grave shall be swallowed in victory and (God shall fill all in all). 1Cor15:52
The creation is waiting and groaning for the full manifestation of the sons of God,( a manifestation of Himself in the earth).
Wherefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end, for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. 1Peter1:4
Christ in you, the hope of glory...you in Christ, the glory.

 

[Stumpmaster]

I don't understand what people say they are believing about a second coming. To me Jesus came to us the first time when he was born to Mary in Bethlehem and during that first time beginning at age 30 he ministered to us. Why wouldn't the second coming be when he comes into our hearts, if he does? Why should another arrival be needed if He is in us already?

Hi amadeus,
The Bible clearly speaks about an event that brings this current age to an end. This event is the return of Christ. There are too many references to post but here are some. If you have any more questions you can't get answers to by searching (googling) online I can further assist. I believe it is vitally important for everyone to be aware that Christ will return to catch away His saints just as a Jewish bridegroom returned for his bride after a time of betrothal when he had made a new home ready for her. The return of Christ will set in motion a cataclysm that will destroy this fallen Creation.

Acts 1:6-11
(6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, will you at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father has put in his own power.
(8) But you shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and you shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
(9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
(10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
(11) Which also said, You men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
2Pe 3:1-4
(1) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
(2) That you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
(3) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
(4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Peter 3:10-13
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
(12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
(13) Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwells righteousness.

 

[Naomi25]

I don't understand what people say they are believing about a second coming. To me Jesus came to us the first time when he was born to Mary in Bethlehem and during that first time beginning at age 30 he ministered to us. Why wouldn't the second coming be when he comes into our hearts, if he does? Why should another arrival be needed if He is in us already?

Hi amadeus! It's a valid question and certainly an important one. While we can know, from scripture and the evidence within us, that Christ indeed lives within our hearts, we need to understand that there is a great distinction between that, and the promise of his second, and final, return.

To start with, the indwelling nature is one of the Holy Spirit, and this union makes us "in Christ". It is not always easy to understand, but in a very real sense it's about ownership. We are now heirs proper, bought and paid for by Christ, sealed and guaranteed by the presence of the Spirit. What we see and experience now, is not what we will see and experience when Christ returns...there are certain promises that have not been met and are not seen yet, that will be at that time.

There will come a time when this will be said:

Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” - Revelation 11:15

And this Kingdom will be a place where:

And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” - Revelation 21:3–4

As the world is now, with sin and death still existing, we must expect something else on the horizon, something else to do away with these things before we can move to God's Kingdom, where sin and heartache will be no more.

We know from 1 Corinthians 15 that when Christ returns (v23), it will be "the end" (v24) and ,he will put an end to death, which is the last enemy (v26).

So, we must ask ourselves...is this the sinless world we are told we can look towards? Every day in the news are more and more heartbreaking, terrifying things. The whole world burns. And yet Christ has promised us that a time will come when none of this will be. There will be no tears, no mourning, no pain, no sin.

And this is not even touching on all the passages that talk of Christ's return. All the apostles make it clear they are expecting a physical return. When we do a search for the words "appearing", "coming" "return" we find verse after verse talking about it, and they all reveal that when he does, he will bring with him this final, perfect Kingdom. A Kingdom that has been fully won and paid for, but not yet consummated. This may seem a strange notion to some, but consider: as Peter puts it, it is not slowness as some consider it, but patience. Every day the Lord delays his coming, more people are won to him. So we live in this fallen, groaning world for a while longer, looking forward to his return, but being patient for it, because every hour our Church family in Christ grows...people we don't know now, but will meet in that perfect Age when sin is no more.

 

[Enoch111]

Why wouldn't the second coming be when he comes into our hearts, if he does?

Because Christ coming into our hearts is simply for our personal salvation. It is not a "second coming" at all.

Why should another arrival be needed if He is in us already?

Because He must establish His visible, physical (and spiritual) Kingdom on earth AFTER He has destroyed all His enemies. "The whole world lieth in wickedness" (as Scripture reveals) but God desires that the whole world be established in universal righteousness and peace. So who do you think can cleanse this world, and actually establish the literal Kingdom of God on earth?

There are dozens of Scriptures to support this truth, so now it is up to you to study them. Nave's Topical Bible (KJB) could be a tremendous help.

 

[ScottA]

What we see and experience now, is not what we will see and experience when Christ returns...there are certain promises that have not been met and are not seen yet, that will be at that time.

And that is the crux of the problem.

Here we have those who have not seen and experienced all that has been promised arguing with those who have, even after Jesus has long ago said that the kingdom of God had come when He first came and then said He would come again "quickly" to those who heard Him knocking and open the door to Him. How sad it is that those who have not seen and have obviously not opened the door fully to Him according to His promises, should purpose to tell those who have seen just what is and what is not.

But I tell you - you have heard both testimonies, because both are true! For some "It is finished", and for some it is not, just as you have heard them say.

“Thou sayest.”

 

[ScottA]

Because Christ coming into our hearts is simply for our personal salvation. It is not a "second coming" at all.

Because He must establish His visible, physical (and spiritual) Kingdom on earth AFTER He has destroyed all His enemies. "The whole world lieth in wickedness" (as Scripture reveals) but God desires that the whole world be established in universal righteousness and peace. So who do you think can cleanse this world, and actually establish the literal Kingdom of God on earth?

There are dozens of Scriptures to support this truth, so now it is up to you to study them. Nave's Topical Bible (KJB) could be a tremendous help.

Your rationale and justification for your claims, is what you [don't] see in the world. But the Christ was clear, and you contradict Him: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation."

Beware! Those who have [not] seen, can only tell you what they have not seen.

 

[Enoch111]

Your rationale and justification for your claims, is what you [don't] see in the world. But the Christ was clear, and you contradict Him: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation."

It does not help you (or anyone else) to take a Scripture out of context and try and apply it to the eternal Kingdom of God on earth. At the time that these words were spoken (and even now throughout the Church Age) the Kingdom of God is "within you" (within believers). It is not presently a visible Kingdom.

But that is not how it will always be. So why don't you take some time to properly study the matter, instead of casting aspersions (e.g. "Beware") and making insinuations about those who have not seen and cannot see (which really applies to you!) And then to claim that I contradict Christ, when it is you who has been blatantly contradicting the truth about the second coming of Christ!

Let me give you a clue from Scripture.

DANIEL 7
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Christ made reference to this passage when He was being interrogated by the high priest.

MATTHEW 26
62 And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?

63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

So, instead of believing Christ and worshiping Him, these men accused Him of blasphemy because He was telling them that He is indeed the Son of God (also called the Son of Man in Daniel), and that He would establish His literal Kingdom on earth after His second coming. And now you are resisting the words of Christ and telling me that I am contradicting Him. I already quoted this from Matthew 24:30, but here it is again: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.