Where does evil come from...

[VictoryinJesus]

"iniquity was found IN Him"

Who is the prince of Tyrus?
Ezekiel 28:2-19 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God ; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: [3] Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: [4] With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: [5] By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches: [6] Therefore thus saith the Lord God ; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; [7] Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. [8] They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. [9] Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. [10] Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God. [11] Moreover the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, [12] Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God ; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. [13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. [14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so : thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. [15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. [16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. [17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. [18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. [19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, Isaiah 25:7-8 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. [8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

2 Corinthians 3:14-16 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

 

[Behold]

[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. .

Sin was found IN Lucifer, tho he was created "perfect".
He felt Lust, he obeyed it, and iniquity was born.
This is the fallen nature that exists as the Adamic Nature in the world.

 

[101G]

Ok. I get it: you aren't going to answer the question.

good question, and yes, God create EVIL, but as the OP stated,

God is THE Creator, but He did not create "evil", in the sense of man's carnal sinning, that is a result of Satan's nature committing deeds.

and true EVIL, is not "Sin", but when used incorrectly can cause one to sin. for God have "EVIL" angels. so evil has a used in God's ecomony. and Eve found that out when she got short changed, when she wanted to understand how to control EVIL, by becoming WISE to it.

so I start with the Garden itself, Genesis 2:8 "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." that word plant, here in verb form, is to set up or establish, well what for? to develop, shape, order, as in one's steps. also the Garden was setup to, discover, explore, and or to arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response. the reason why I say this is what God told Adam, when he put him in the Garden, Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
these two words was of INTREST, "DRESS", and "KEEP"

Dress:
H5647 עָבַד `abad (aw-ɓad') v.
1. to work (in any sense).
2. (by implication) to serve, till.
3. (causatively) to enslave, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, + husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper.

and "KEEP",
H8104 שָׁמַר shamar (shaw-mar') v.
1. (properly) to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard.
2. (generally) to protect, attend to, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: beward, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep(-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch(-man).

so the MILLION DOLLAR and 33 cent question is What was Adam to Guard and protect against while he is to, discover, explore, and or to be arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Behold]

good question, and yes, God create EVIL, but as the OP stated,

and true EVIL, is not "Sin", but when used incorrectly can cause one to sin. for God have "EVIL" angels. so evil has a used in God's ecomony. and Eve found that out when she got short changed, when she wanted to understand how to control EVIL, by becoming WISE to it.

God can use whatever He wants to use to accomplish His will.
He has used a donkey, He has used a floating axe head, He has used "the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe".
He has used this...

"""
1 Kings 22:21-23

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Sin was found IN Lucifer, tho he was created "perfect".
He felt Lust, he obeyed it, and iniquity was born.
This is the fallen nature that exists as the Adamic Nature in the world.

Are you saying the prince of Tyrus is Lucifer?

 

[101G]

Ok. I get it: you aren't going to answer the question.

good question, and yes, God create EVIL, but as the OP stated,

God is THE Creator, but He did not create "evil", in the sense of man's carnal sinning, that is a result of Satan's nature committing deeds.

and true EVIL, is not "Sin", but when used incorrectly can cause one to sin. for God have "EVIL" angels. so evil has a used in God's ecomony. and Eve found that out when she got short changed, when she wanted to understand how to control EVIL, by becoming WISE to it.

so I start with the Garden itself, Genesis 2:8 "And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." that word plant, here in verb form, is to set up or establish, well what for? to develop, shape, order, as in one's steps. also the Garden was setup to, discover, explore, and or to arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response. the reason why I say this is what God told Adam, when he put him in the Garden, Genesis 2:15 "And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it."
these two words was of INTREST, "DRESS", and "KEEP"

Dress:
H5647 עָבַד `abad (aw-ɓad') v.
1. to work (in any sense).
2. (by implication) to serve, till.
3. (causatively) to enslave, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, + husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper.

and "KEEP",
H8104 שָׁמַר shamar (shaw-mar') v.
1. (properly) to hedge about (as with thorns), i.e. guard.
2. (generally) to protect, attend to, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: beward, be circumspect, take heed (to self), keep(-er, self), mark, look narrowly, observe, preserve, regard, reserve, save (self), sure, (that lay) wait (for), watch(-man).

so the MILLION DOLLAR and 33 cent question is, "What was Adam to Guard and protect against while he WAS amoung the trees, to, discover, explore, and or to be arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response), while in the garden? NOW I HAVE AN IDEA WHAT THE GARDEN WAS FOR, but I would like to hear what you think considering you area of expertise and credentials of work qualification.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

God can use whatever He wants to use to accomplish His will.
He has used a donkey, He has used a floating axe head, He has used "the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe".
He has used this...

"""
1 Kings 22:21-23

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

yes I'm aware of this, for the spirit said, "I'll be", and NOT is a lying spirit, in their mouths. as he sent Evil angels/spirit into Egypt, to bring about his will.

I'm very aware of this.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Behold]

Are you saying the prince of Tyrus is Lucifer?

No, im saying that Lucifer was created perfect, and fell into iniquity, because He obeyed his lust.
To obey your lust is when you sin, and that happens in your mind, long before you do the deed itself.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

to dress it and to keep it."
these two words was of INTREST, "DRESS", and "KEEP"

lots to consider. “To dress it and keep it” isn’t that what Christ does?
Colossians 3:9-10 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; [10] And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

lots about “dress” or “clothed”

Dress:
H5647 עָבַד `abad (aw-ɓad') v.
1. to work (in any sense).
2. (by implication) to serve, till.
3. (causatively) to enslave, etc.
[a primitive root]
KJV: X be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, + husbandman,

John 15:1-4 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. [2] Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. [3] Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. [4] Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

so the MILLION DOLLAR and 33 cent question is What was Adam to Guard and protect against while he is to, discover, explore, and or to be arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response

What was Adam to Guard and protect against while he is to, discover, explore, and or to be arouse, as in to evoke or awaken (a feeling, emotion, or response

what was Adam to guard?
Why...be sober and watch?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

No, im saying that Lucifer was created perfect, and fell into iniquity, because He obeyed his lust.
To obey your lust is when you sin, and that happens in your mind, long before you do the deed itself.

was asking where you get this from? “Till iniquity was found in thee” What verses so I can look it up?

 

[Behold]

was asking where you get this from? “Till iniquity was found in thee” What verses so I can look it up?

Ezekiel 28:14-15

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ezekiel 28:14-15

Is the prince of tyrus not the one spoken to there? So I’m so confused in ...no the prince of tyrus is not Lucifer but the passage is about Lucifer

 

[Enoch111]

Lucifer in fact did have a fallen nature before He sinned. Had he not, then he would not have sinned.

That is COMPLETELY FALSE. As usual you love manufacturing your own theology.

 

[FHII]

God created the Tree of Good and Evil....but that is the Knowledge of it........

Well, you finally answered the question! Seriously, it shouldn't have been that hard to do because the Bible says God did it! So my planned question was, "Why did God plant it?" It really seems reasonable to me that it would've been better if he simply left it out of the Garden. I however, am not God. So he thought it good to put it there.

There are so many problems with your theory. I don't know whether to list them all at once or go into them one at a time. I suppose I will just list them all:

1. Evil cannot exist unless it is created.
2. If evil wasn't created, neither was it's counterpart: "good". So God didn't create good either.
3. God said he created evil in Isaiah 45:7.
4. God said he created the wicked for the day of evil in Proverbs 16:4
5. God said he created all things, and without him nothing was made unless he made them in John 1:3.
6. Satan was created by God, and he was a murderer from the beginning (John 8:44)
7. "Evil" can be used as an adjective as in Matthew 7:17 (evil fruit) or an adverb (I suppose, but I can't think of an example). But it can also be used as a noun as in Matthew 6:34. If evil is a noun, and thus, a person, place, thing or idea, it must be created for it to exist as such.
8. God said through Paul that he worketh ALL things after the council of HIS OWN will. This strongly suggests that evil is part of God's will.
9. Perhaps a small point that has no real bearing on the point of discussion, but Satan was not Lucifer, nor was he the Prince of Tyre. In fact, the person that actually WAS Lucifer brought down and defeated the Prince of Tyre and neither of them were Satan; they were flesh and blood men.

So overall... To put it plainly, I don't accept your theories.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Something else has occurred to me regarding Satan's fall. Angels were created to be servants to man. Angel were created before man. Perhaps Satan's first sin was envy, when he realized mankind - these little mud-people - were going to be above him?

Much love!

Well we don't know if that was the angels original purpose or it was one God planned ahead because H eknew man would fall and need ministering spirits in a fallen world.

But Techinically, Satan is not an angel but a cherub. There are three orders of spirit being. From bottom to top they are 3. angels, 2. Seraphs, and #1 Cheribs with Satan being the anointed cherub.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is COMPLETELY FALSE. As usual you love manufacturing your own theology.

Well actually, Satan before He actually committed the physcial sin, had a fallen nature. Sin always starts from within, so Satan after He was created perfect, at som epoint before He physically fell, emotionally, spiritually and mentally fell.

 

[marks]

But Techinically, Satan is not an angel but a cherub.

Bless your heart!!



I'm happy to be called on that! I knew as I was writing I was speculating, whether this description of servants would have applied to the cherubim or not. It's good to know someone is paying attention!

Psalm 104:4 "Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire"

I've likewise wondered whether the one we now call Satan was a fifth "living creature", a dragon, after who's fall the entire class of animals were declared unclean.

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Bless your heart!!



I'm happy to be called on that! I knew as I was writing I was speculating, whether this description of servants would have applied to the cherubim or not. It's good to know someone is paying attention!

Psalm 104:4 "Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire"

I've likewise wondered whether the one we now call Satan was a fifth "living creature", a dragon, after who's fall the entire class of animals were declared unclean.

Much love!

Well we know that after the fall of Adam and Eve, god cursed the serpent. From the nature of the curse it is quite possible that snakes were not belly crawlers before .
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Enoch111]

Well actually, Satan before He actually committed the physcial sin, had a fallen nature. Sin always starts from within, so Satan after He was created perfect, at som e point before He physically fell, emotionally, spiritually and mentally fell.

That is merely a rationalization. The Bible says that Lucifer was perfect in the day that he was created, yet he CHOSE to rebel. Adam and Eve were also perfect until they chose to rebel. When God said that His creation was "very good" it meant that it was perfect in every way. But that did not preclude freewill. All these sinners could have chosen to do the exact opposite of what they did.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That is merely a rationalization. The Bible says that Lucifer was perfect in the day that he was created, yet he CHOSE to rebel. Adam and Eve were also perfect until they chose to rebel. When God said that His creation was "very good" it meant that it was perfect in every way. But that did not preclude freewill. All these sinners could have chosen to do the exact opposite of what they did.

I fully agree that Lucifer was created perfect as were Adam and Eve. they were given the ability to choose against God! they chose wrong. but just remember Jesus taught that sin starts in the heart long before it comes out in action.