Where does evil come from...

[amadeus]

Is the prince of tyrus not the one spoken to there? So I’m so confused in ...no the prince of tyrus is not Lucifer but the passage is about Lucifer

The devil subject is confusing to anyone who has heard the churches traditionally believe. Add to the tradition a some verses which would support the tradition is correctly interpreted. My own ideas on it are sketchy but controversial even though I am careful not to set them in concrete. Doesn't matter to many who consider their own position an AT [Absolute Truth] even though it was some man or men that hammered out the details before any of us were born but well after the man of flesh Jesus was gone from the scene. How important is it in our walk with God to have all of the details correct... such who the "prince of Tyrus" was and how or why someone might presume that he was Lucifer [the light bearer] or satan [the adversary].

 

[amigo de christo]

Let no man say when he is tempted that He is tempted from GOD . Our evil comes from our own flesh .
OH but praise be to GOD , FOR JESUS CHRIST in WHOM we have the power to overcome the evil .
Jesus is all we need . Chastisments can come sure come from GOD . But all whom HE loves HE WILL correct and chasten .
ITS all for our good . OH known unto GOD IS EVERYTHING . AND what we know comes by HIS grace .
Be feasting on bibles and let us grow in the grace of our LORD .

 

[Renniks]

Evil is simply the absence of God. It doesn't require a creator. It's the default. God allowed evil but he didn't invent it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Evil is simply the absence of God. It doesn't require a creator. It's the default. God allowed evil but he didn't invent it.

Think on this . GOD is the ONLY ONE who has the absolute right to DESIRE to have pre eminece over all .
For any one else its evil . Thus when satan desired this , EVIL . But for GOD to desire it , ITS GOOD .
I hope that makes sense . Evil is anything that wont put GOD first . Wont heed his teachings , wont honor HIM above all
but rather feeds self .

 

[amigo de christo]

let the LORD be praised my friends . YES INDEED . OH YES INDEED , LET THE LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[dev553344]

Evil is not "created"< but it does exist.

God is THE Creator, but He did not create "evil", in the sense of man's carnal sinning, that is a result of Satan's nature committing deeds.

Let me explain.

Consider Lucifer...
"iniquity was found IN Him".....In Heaven.
"iniquity" is "sin".......and Lucifer sinned, and the Angel's sinned who followed him.
Before you were born again, you were a "sinner" because you operated in the nature of the Devil.
When you were sinning, you were simply functioning as the Devil's nature.
The Nature of the Devil, is SIN.
The devil is "fallen", and the sin nature in a person is the "Adamic FALLEN nature".
See that?
So.....If you are born again, then you are born OUT of that fallen nature and into God's Nature, which is "a new Creation in Christ".
This is why you are "ONE with God and Christ". = born again.

So, did God create "sin" in Heaven?
Not quite.
Yet a sinning Being was found there...because of his nature. = fallen.

Jesus said that Lucifer is : "a murderer from the beginning" and is the "Father of Lies".
So, to be the Father, is to be= the Creator... To be the beginning of something is to be the creator, in this case.... And so, evil is function and proof of the Satanic nature, and is in fact the "Adamic nature" which is why the Dominion of the LAW defines you as a "SINNER".
But...once you are born again, you are no longer under the Law's dominion, you are "under GRACE", which is the dominion of the Kingdom of God, and this Dominion redefines you, the born again, as a SAINT.

Evil exists, because Satan exists.
Evil is a nature, its the "sin nature"... as found in Lucifer/Satan/The Devil, and passed into us all, from Adam, because of the Fall.
Thats your EVIL, and that is why you were evil, and that is why you have to be be born again OUT OF THAT EVIL, and into God's HOLY Spirit. = That is "born again"..."One with God"...and "in Christ", and there is no evil there, and no sin ever found.

Jesus explains "evil" as being a nature, in this verse..>"you are OF your FATHER ..the devil, and the LUSTS of your FATHER= you will Do".
Who are they? They are all the lost, all those who are not born again. They are literally the Devil's children, and Hell is created for the Devil and his angels, and so, the Devil's children, the Christ Rejectors, will end up with their Father, for all eternity. = Hell then the Lake of Fire.
The Born again, end up with OUR Father, and that means with God where HE Exists, forever.

When you were not born again, , you were guilty before God, because of this situation.
John 3:36.
But. HALLELUJAH !!.....Jesus has now made you ETERNALLY INNOCENT before God, by becoming your sin and taking all the eternal judgement due you.......upon Himself.
This is the CROSS, The Blood Atonement.... and this is what it means to be "made righteous", by being given "the Gift of Righteousness", that is "THE GIFT OF SALVATION".

So....If you are born again, and not just water baptized....then you have become the "gifted" for all eternity.
=Welcome to being "born again".

So, see those "lusts". "of your FATHER" in that verse???......That is evil and where it BEGAN, and why it exists.
Its all due to Satan and his LUSTS which are SIN = EVIL.
When you perform Satan's nature, as LUST, then you are committing EVIL.
Thats where it began, and that is why it remains.

Evil is just lies and the promotion of lies normally. Killing people is a lie, because we don't know if God will restore them to life, stealing is a form of a lie because it's not the persons property. All evil is from the imagination and is nothing more than promotion of lies.

John 8:44

King James Version

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[amigo de christo]

OH man , what a beautiful reminder just hit my soul .
You know how i just said that GOD is the only one who has the right to desire to be above all , to have preemince over all .
YET look HOW JESUS walked while in the flesh on this earth . DID EVERYTHING for the sake of others , for our welfare .
TO honor the FATHER and to save all who would believe in HIM . WHAT a perfect example for how men should walk . LIKE JESUS .
AND we all KNOW WHO HE IS . yep . PRAISE THE KING my friends . PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD .

 

[n2thelight]

So.... Who made and/or planted the tree?

since that tree is satan himself ,God did ,however He did not create him evil, he, (satan)became evil

 

[Taken]

Where does evil come from?
OP ^

Isa 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Col 1:
[16] For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[n2thelight]

Are you saying the prince of Tyrus is Lucifer?

Yes the prince of Tyrus was satan

he's also the king in that same chapter

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The devil subject is confusing to anyone who has heard the churches traditionally believe. Add to the tradition a some verses which would support the tradition is correctly interpreted. My own ideas on it are sketchy but controversial even though I am careful not to set them in concrete. Doesn't matter to many who consider their own position an AT [Absolute Truth] even though it was some man or men that hammered out the details before any of us were born but well after the man of flesh Jesus was gone from the scene. How important is it in our walk with God to have all of the details correct... such who the "prince of Tyrus" was and how or why someone might presume that he was Lucifer [the light bearer] or satan [the adversary].

I’ve read some of your ideas before on satan. You came to these by (I’m assuming here) asking questions at least within yourself, yeah? Wouldn’t say I disagree with your conclusions even though they are not concrete. Agree it isn’t important other than: where does evil come from? Which has been a question I’ve asked repeatedly some days within also. What is evil and what is its source. That passage in question may seem to not matter to the topic but concerning the topic of “where does evil come from” there is also on its heel “the devil made me do it.” No, I’m not suggesting it is vital or necessary for my knowing what that passage “until sin was found in thee” means, except maybe this: that I’m not yet convinced in the application. Maybe random and unimportant but I was thinking about our grandchildren this morning. How they will use a new word and apply it to see if they have applied that new word correctly. Our granddaughter had a new really big word the other morning (can’t remember what is was); but it was impressive how she applied it to show also its meaning. Probably doesn’t make sense but one passage ...does it matter “till sin was found in thee” with “where does evil come from” with “the devil made me do it” maybe not...

 

[amadeus]

I’ve read some of your ideas before on satan. You came to these by (I’m assuming here) asking questions at least within yourself, yeah? Wouldn’t say I disagree with your conclusions even though they are not concrete. Agree it isn’t important other than: where does evil come from? Which has been a question I’ve asked repeatedly some days within also. What is evil and what is its source. That passage in question may seem to not matter to the topic but concerning the topic of “where does evil come from” there is also on its heel “the devil made me do it.” No, I’m not suggesting it is vital or necessary for my knowing what that passage “until sin was found in thee” means, except maybe this: that I’m not yet convinced in the application. Maybe random and unimportant but I was thinking about our grandchildren this morning. How they will use a new word and apply it to see if they have applied that new word correctly. Our granddaughter had a new really big word the other morning (can’t remember what is was); but it was impressive how she applied it to show also its meaning. Probably doesn’t make sense but one passage ...does it matter “till sin was found in thee” with “where does evil come from” with “the devil made me do it” maybe not...

Yes, from questions within myself from way back when... came the possibilities. Then after hearing only bits and pieces here and there from assorted ministers, the group where I was attending at the time had a large gathering in Florida with two leading ministers giving the opening presentation for the two sides. One man spoke in favor of there being a Poppa or chief devil and the other spoke against there being such an entity with the evil being man himself. Once each had used up his allotted time the discussion opened up to the floor. They touched on perhaps every verse of scripture a person could find. I was not there, but they recorded it on DVD and I watched the recording. It was one of the best discussions I have seen as the two leading ministers never spoke out against each other personally even though they strongly disagreed. No mud slinging there! I am not longer with the group so I don't have access to the DVD, but then again as with your granddaughter people are impressed and even proud of things they learned from people they have come to trust and even love. Both of those men were highly respected and knowledgeable in the Bible and they both had a good spirit about it... but they also hoped to resolve the issue once and for all. There were many people in the group/denomination [consisting of thousands nationally and internationally] but it did not happen. That people remain divided on the issue although I give them credit for not allowing it to cause them to break up into two groups...

Personally as you recall I am inclined to disbelieve in the Poppa devil position, but still there are too many arguments for the other side for me to establish an AT [Absolute Truth]. The idea of a separate devil is not just a thing from written scripture but from our own culture. Many long years before I had ever owned or read a Bible I had impressed on my mind the red fellow with horns and tail and pitchfork. Most everyone else in the USA certainly did the same so when they got themselves involved in church groups it is understandable that they found verses in scripture which seemed to support their position. Of course they usually were shown the verses by someone else who already knew about them. Did that understanding and interpretation of what is written come from God?

What is the source of evil? Everyone probably agrees that man is his own enemy. Is he his worst enemy or is the external devil entity an even greater culprit? That "devil made me do it" phrase is one of the problems with the existence of the Poppa devil... but I guess as long as a person does not try to give all of the blame to a devil and take no responsibility himself...? Well you understand my point there...

There is evil and there is good. God is the good! The evil is on the other side. Let us stay always on God's side and without knowing all the details will we not be OK for ourselves and for God?

 

[Renniks]

Yes, from questions within myself from way back when... came the possibilities. Then after hearing only bits and pieces here and there from assorted ministers, the group where I was attending at the time had a large gathering in Florida with two leading ministers giving the opening presentation for the two sides. One man spoke in favor of there being a Poppa or chief devil and the other spoke against there being such an entity with the evil being man himself. Once each had used up his allotted time the discussion opened up to the floor. They touched on perhaps every verse of scripture a person could find. I was not there, but they recorded it on DVD and I watched the recording. It was one of the best discussions I have seen as the two leading ministers never spoke out against each other personally even though they strongly disagreed. No mud slinging there! I am not longer with the group so I don't have access to the DVD, but then again as with your granddaughter people are impressed and even proud of things they learned from people they have come to trust and even love. Both of those men were highly respected and knowledgeable in the Bible and they both had a good spirit about it... but they also hoped to resolve the issue once and for all. There were many people in the group/denomination [consisting of thousands nationally and internationally] but it did not happen. That people remain divided on the issue although I give them credit for not allowing it to cause them to break up into two groups...

Personally as you recall I am inclined to disbelieve in the Poppa devil position, but still there are too many arguments for the other side for me to establish an AT [Absolute Truth]. The idea of a separate devil is not just a thing from written scripture but from our own culture. Many long years before I had ever owned or read a Bible I had impressed on my mind the red fellow with horns and tail and pitchfork. Most everyone else in the USA certainly did the same so when they got themselves involved in church groups it is understandable that they found verses in scripture which seemed to support their position. Of course they usually were shown the verses by someone else who already knew about them. Did that understanding and interpretation of what is written come from God?

What is the source of evil? Everyone probably agrees that man is his own enemy. Is he his worst enemy or is the external devil entity an even greater culprit? That "devil made me do it" phrase is one of the problems with the existence of the Poppa devil... but I guess as long as a person does not try to give all of the blame to a devil and take no responsibility himself...? Well you understand my point there...

There is evil and there is good. God is the good! The evil is on the other side. Let us stay always on God's side and without knowing all the details will we not be OK for ourselves and for God?

Have you never been attacked by an outside force? Spiritual warfare doesn't work if we are merely fighting our own nature.

 

[amadeus]

Have you never been attacked by an outside force? Spiritual warfare doesn't work if we are merely fighting our own nature.

God is still judging us according to what is in our own hearts without regard to the source of the attack. What are we to fear: The physical enemy soldier shooting at us on a battlefield?

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28

If we are on God's side, who is able to destroy both soul and body? How much power is satan shown to have against Job? Only that allowed to him by God! As long as we understand that does it matter whether the man is his own enemy alone or there is some other creature shooting poisonous darts at him?

"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" Rom 8:31

Then also read what James wrote:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1

The 'new' man versus the 'old' man!

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[Oseas]

Well, you finally answered the question! Seriously, it shouldn't have been that hard to do because the Bible says God did it!

Yes, the Bible - the LORD's book, is the Word of GOD - the Holy Scriptures - the written GOD's Word, the Word is GOD, yeah, the Word is GOD, and He - the Word - says, then LITERALLY He does it, automatically, it is written. The Word - I mean GOD - is from everlasting to everlasting. He, GOD, I mean the Word, has not beginning, neither ending, JESUS is the beginning and the ending, Alpha and Omega, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Evil is not "created"< but it does exist.

God is THE Creator, but He did not create "evil", in the sense of man's carnal sinning, that is a result of Satan's nature committing deeds.

Let me explain.

Consider Lucifer...
"iniquity was found IN Him".....In Heaven.
"iniquity" is "sin".......and Lucifer sinned, and the Angel's sinned who followed him.
Before you were born again, you were a "sinner" because you operated in the nature of the Devil.
When you were sinning, you were simply functioning as the Devil's nature.
The Nature of the Devil, is SIN.
The devil is "fallen", and the sin nature in a person is the "Adamic FALLEN nature".
See that?
So.....If you are born again, then you are born OUT of that fallen nature and into God's Nature, which is "a new Creation in Christ".
This is why you are "ONE with God and Christ". = born again.

So, did God create "sin" in Heaven?
Not quite.
Yet a sinning Being was found there...because of his nature. = fallen.

Jesus said that Lucifer is : "a murderer from the beginning" and is the "Father of Lies".
So, to be the Father, is to be= the Creator... To be the beginning of something is to be the creator, in this case.... And so, evil is function and proof of the Satanic nature, and is in fact the "Adamic nature" which is why the Dominion of the LAW defines you as a "SINNER".
But...once you are born again, you are no longer under the Law's dominion, you are "under GRACE", which is the dominion of the Kingdom of God, and this Dominion redefines you, the born again, as a SAINT.

Evil exists, because Satan exists.
Evil is a nature, its the "sin nature"... as found in Lucifer/Satan/The Devil, and passed into us all, from Adam, because of the Fall.
Thats your EVIL, and that is why you were evil, and that is why you have to be be born again OUT OF THAT EVIL, and into God's HOLY Spirit. = That is "born again"..."One with God"...and "in Christ", and there is no evil there, and no sin ever found.

Jesus explains "evil" as being a nature, in this verse..>"you are OF your FATHER ..the devil, and the LUSTS of your FATHER= you will Do".
Who are they? They are all the lost, all those who are not born again. They are literally the Devil's children, and Hell is created for the Devil and his angels, and so, the Devil's children, the Christ Rejectors, will end up with their Father, for all eternity. = Hell then the Lake of Fire.
The Born again, end up with OUR Father, and that means with God where HE Exists, forever.

When you were not born again, , you were guilty before God, because of this situation.
John 3:36.
But. HALLELUJAH !!.....Jesus has now made you ETERNALLY INNOCENT before God, by becoming your sin and taking all the eternal judgement due you.......upon Himself.
This is the CROSS, The Blood Atonement.... and this is what it means to be "made righteous", by being given "the Gift of Righteousness", that is "THE GIFT OF SALVATION".

So....If you are born again, and not just water baptized....then you have become the "gifted" for all eternity.
=Welcome to being "born again".

So, see those "lusts". "of your FATHER" in that verse???......That is evil and where it BEGAN, and why it exists.
Its all due to Satan and his LUSTS which are SIN = EVIL.
When you perform Satan's nature, as LUST, then you are committing EVIL.
Thats where it began, and that is why it remains.

God disagrees with you!
Evil is created by God. In the following translations of
ISAIAH 45:7, we see evil, calamity, woe, doom , disaster, troubles, etc., however you want to slice it.
CEB
I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

ERV
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.

ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

KJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

NASB
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

NKJV
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

NRSV
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.

WEB
I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.

YLT
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'

And to answer another question that you avoided three times, God created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and placed in the Garden BEFORE Adam and and Eve sinned.

 

[Oseas]

1 Corinthians 13:v.9-10 and 8
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

8 But whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away- Charity never faileth.

 

[Renniks]

God is still judging us according to what is in our own hearts without regard to the source of the attack. What are we to fear: The physical enemy soldier shooting at us on a battlefield?

"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matt 10:28

If we are on God's side, who is able to destroy both soul and body? How much power is satan shown to have against Job? Only that allowed to him by God! As long as we understand that does it matter whether the man is his own enemy alone or there is some other creature shooting poisonous darts at him?

"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" Rom 8:31

Then also read what James wrote:

"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?" James 4:1

The 'new' man versus the 'old' man!

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

You didn't answer the question. BTW I think perhaps Job had a similar idea as you do about how God operates, because he kept blaming God for his trouble, but he was wrong.
We are told to resist the devil. Not to blame God for his activities.

 

[Renniks]

God disagrees with you!
Evil is created by God. In the following translations of
ISAIAH 45:7, we see evil, calamity, woe, doom , disaster, troubles, etc., however you want to slice it.
CEB
I form light and create darkness, make prosperity and create doom; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

ERV
I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.

ESV
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

KJV
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

NASB
The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.

NKJV
I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

NRSV
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe; I the Lord do all these things.

WEB
I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create calamity. I am Yahweh, who does all these things.

YLT
Forming light, and preparing darkness, Making peace, and preparing evil, I [am] Jehovah, doing all these things.'

And to answer another question that you avoided three times, God created the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and placed in the Garden BEFORE Adam and and Eve sinned.

Creating calamity for an already rebellious people is not the same as creating evil.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

 

[marks]

Creating calamity for an already rebellious people is not the same as creating evil.

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5

Context is king!

Evil in the way of environmental calamity? Evil in the way of moral calamity? God does not sin, neither does He tempt man to sin.

Much love!