Where is your sin?

[Behold]

Trusting in God for the forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ is not a work of self righteous merit or boast. Paul said so.

Correct.
But not understanding that once you did that, God resolved all your sin, and made you eternally secure "in Christ".....is proof of "falling from Grace".
See, the legalist, can't believe that Christ keeps them saved.
THis is why they argue that they have a part in this, after they are already saved.

 

[Behold]

So you're saying John turned right around and contradicted what he just said 3 verses before. You need to seek the understanding that does not cause John to contradict himself.

I simply rightly divide.
For example... I understand that John talks to the Church, and also talks to Jews or Gentile unbelievers.
If John talks to the unbeliever, he tells them...>"if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves".
Whereas if he talks to the CHURCH , he tells them that they can "Know they have eternal life", (OSAS)(ETERNAL SECURITY)... and he tells them that they cannot sin because they are "born of God"... 1Jn 3

 

[Behold]

That's right. God does not charge sin to a believing born again person. It is charged to the person who does not believe. That's why John exhorts us to let what we heard in the beginning remain in us.

The seed that is in us, is the born again status, as a SON of GOD.
That is "incorruptible".
You can't stop being born again, so, you can't stop being a Son of God.

See, the seed isn't faith.
THe SEED is the word that has produced the NEW BIRTH, as its Spiritual Fruit.
God does that.
Thats called Salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I simply rightly divide.
For example... I understand that John talks to the Church, and also talks to Jews or Gentile unbelievers.
If John talks to the unbeliever, he tells them...>"if we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves".
Whereas if he talks to the CHURCH , he tells them that they can "Know they have eternal life", (OSAS)(ETERNAL SECURITY)... and he tells them that they cannot sin because they are "born of God"... 1Jn 3

.....and he tells them to let the word remain in them. You have yet to have a doctrine that reconciles all of John's points together. As it is now, you just ignore 1 John 2:24-25 because it doesn't fit into your personal interpretation of scripture. You're not alone. Most Christians do this with the Bible.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The seed that is in us, is the born again status, as a SON of GOD.
That is "incorruptible".
You can't stop being born again, so, you can't stop being a Son of God.

See, the seed isn't faith.
THe SEED is the word that has produced the NEW BIRTH, as its Spiritual Fruit.
God does that.
Thats called Salvation.

Think what you want about that. The important thing is that Christians understand that they must continue to really believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back. That is the important teaching that you don't believe, so you don't teach it. You've missed the thing that counts the most in your misguided effort to defend a curious but meaningless doctrine of OSAS.

 

[Behold]

.....and he tells them to let the word remain in them

Lets make a distinction , so that the people that you are confusing can escape.
'
There is the Logos, which is the word, as read, or as preached.
Then There is the Rhema word.

One is inactive, and one is spirit in action.
One is seed of the word being planted, and one is the effect of the Seed in action.

So, when I preach the Cross, or when i lift up Jesus against a heretic's self saving theology on this forum, or anywhere else, then that is the Logos, the word being given.
When This word is BELIEVED, then it has become Rhema, to that person. "faith comes by hearing"....or in this case, by reading and believing, as its the same thing.
This means the word that was heard, became a living seed inside the person's heart.
This Seed initiates God, to perform the new birth, or to cause the light of revelation to be revealed within their spiritual eyes, or the "eyes of your understanding". The "inner man".

So, all these things are working in the Spirit realm, Ferris.... as ONE.... to produce the spiritual fruit that IS BECOME a Son of God, or to produce the revealing of the Light AS Revelation knowledge.

What you have not seen yet, is that to be born again, is the COMPLETION of "Grace Through Faith".

So, your faith is....."im not quite saved till im with God, so, till that day, i keep myself saved by my faith, or i dont, and i go to hell in the end".

So, all that, is self saving theology, no matter how you try to veil it with verses you dont understand, that you keep posting.

 

[Behold]

The important thing is that Christians understand that they must continue to really believe to the very end to be saved when Jesus comes back.

That is what you believe is important, because you are tying to keep yourself saved by doing that.

However, a Christian that is not a novice, who understands that they can "KNOW they have eternal life", and are not to be found trying to prove you can't know it, or that you can lose it........realizes that the Same Blood of Jesus that SAVED them, keeps them Saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That is what you believe is important, because you are tying to keep yourself saved by doing that.

And if I don't continue to truly believe, then what?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

found trying to prove you can't know it

Who's been saying that?

 

[Behold]

And if I don't continue to truly believe, then what?

You'll backslide, Ferris.

From there, your discipleship will be found "dead"., or as James describes this discipleship as "dead faith".
You'll then start to live more carnally.
While this is happening, over time.... bad stuff will start to happen in your life, that is caused by the Devil and is caused by the sinning that is going to bring the "reaping what you have sown", to you.

Along the way, God will intervene.
Over time, He'll do it more.
Eventually, if you dont respond to the Goodness of God that should lead you to repent and go back to 1st Love, God will implement Hebrews 12:6.
If that pain does not bring you around, then you'll lose everything.
Following that, you'll die
And next.... you be with Jesus, ashamed, at the Judgement seat.

See, all that time, all those wasted years that you were not believing, you were still God's Possession, as He purchased you with the Blood of Jesus.
Understand?
You were always "bought with a price"......you were always...."not your own".....once you became God's SON.. = born again.
See, you can't stop belonging to God's eternal family, once you are BORN AGAIN into it, Ferris.

Listen..
Jesus said, that its ""GOD's WILL that He lose NONE that God gave Him.""
These are ALL the born again.
So, you can't stop God's will, because you are dumb, and get away from your discipleship, and go back into the world.
All you achieve is pain and sorrow, as that is the reality check for a backslidden "worldly" Christian.

 

[Behold]

Who's been saying that?

Every Legalist who teaches their form of "here is how you can lose your salvation".
(Thats the theology of LEGALISM).

So, everyone who teaches this deception, teaches that you can't know that you will go to heaven, until you have died making sure you kept yourself saved by "abiding" or "enduring" or "holding on to believing"..

All that is the Gospel of "do-ism", or The Gospel of self effort..... The gospel of works..

This is Galatians 1:8

 

[marks]

And if I don't let it remain? Then what?

Then you don't become born again. You don't have the Word in you, and you remain in your sins.

There are different ways to understand these things.

You are thinking, it seems, in terms of, I can only "let it remain" if it's already there, and if it's already there, then I must be born again, and if I'm already born again, and I'm to "let it remain", this must mean it might not.

Am I on the right track here?

But when God moves in He doesn't move out. We are reconciled.

If My Word remains in you . . . Let Him in, and He "lives and remains forever"

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, I didn't say that. You have to examine context and intent to see the difference between faith and believing. Like how James says even demons believe!

Ferris Bueller said: ↑

No, you won't learn much through a pure word study. Just look at how the secular world throws the terms 'faith' and 'believe' around. The Bible does the same thing.

I do not share your view that the Bible uses the same sort of sloppy jargon that people do.

And I don't share your view that you "won't learn much through a pure word study". Well, perhaps it depends on how you do a word study.

For me, it involves examining each of the forms of words that are used, so I understand the differences. Of course I rely a lot on scholarly sources. And very carefully reading every single occurance of the word, including conjoined words. Comparing parallel passages where a different word is used. Looking at notable secular uses of that era. And going back through all the passages, until I feel I have a good solid sense of how a word is used, what are the ranges of it's meaning, what other words are used in similar fashion in similar contexts.

I particularly look for any place where my understanding of a word, or concept, creates any sense of disharmony or conflict with any other place in Scripture. To the best of my ability of course!

The main thing I'm looking for is to be able to read every passage a word is used, and see the meaning of that passage incorporating the very meaning of that word, and not subtly shifting the meaning to be something else.

So that's what I mean by doing a word study. The idea is that while I may incorporate other sources to help me understand, primarily, I'm defining the words in the Bible by the Bible.

I find when I do that, things make much better sense, the doctrine is more cohesive, in harmony, difficult seeming passage fit.

So for me, I'd hardly say, you can't learn much that way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well see, thats the issue that i teach about, everywhere i go...

Its what you said....... "don't normally think this way"..

So, that is the Wrong Believing that is the wrong mind.
And when you exist there, as most Christians do, you live in a "confessing, sinning", and can't stop, issue.

And when we live our mind of Christ, we don't!

Become conscious of Jesus, and lose that consciousness of sin!

Now THAT'S Love!

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's right. Faith is from God. Whether or not you're going to retain that faith and choose to trust him is from you.

The choice is made, and we've been born again. I've repented, been converted, and God owns me. He's set His seal of ownership on me, and do you suppose I can break that? I don't. I don't see anything like that in the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The important point being, if you can't demonstrate that you are righteous in Christ then you have either never received a declaration of righteousness from God, or, for whatever the reason, you're not walking in the righteousness you have received.

What if I told you Justification is more than a declaration of righteousness?

I don't believe God plays Let's Pretend with us.



For the one dying as been justified away from the sin.

Something to notice here is that "has been justified" is the Perfect Tense, Passive Voice. We died, but justification is done to us. And this justification moves us away from sin, the direction of the preposition.

Righteoused away from sin, would be a literal way to say this.

And of course, this is frequently translated, freed from sin, that's what it does.



Later in the chapter, Paul uses another word for our freedom. Freed from sin, and enslaved to righteousness.

Romans 6:6-11
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We have been brought from death, through His death, into life, through His life.

Now we are dead to sin, and alive unto God, and, the most important part, I think, Through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We are not alive unto God by any merit or mindset, or behavior or anything. We are alive unto God through Jesus alone.

In Jesus' righteousness, we are separated from our sin, the stain of sin, the guilt of sin, the desire for sin, the power of sin. His righteousness, our freedom. In Him we live.

Again I have to ask you . . . demonstate to whom? God knows those who are His. I know He lives in me. What are we doing?

If someone doesn't have God living in them, trying to prove something by behavior is IMO worse than useless. And if someone does, stop looking at you sin, and start looking at Jesus.

Much love!

 

[The Kreisel]

Since the "wages of sin is death" it's self-evident where your sin is.
“Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.” - John 8:12

 

[Behold]

But when God moves in He doesn't move out. We are reconciled.

love!

Legalism blinds the mind so that they can't see what you just stated.
You stated, we ARE reconciled.
Why? Because Jesus has ALREADY accomplished this, on the Cross, and then by His death and Resurrection.

He is our reconciliation.
The legalist believes that doing something is the reconciliation, or keeps it.

When they read Jesus saying....>"its is FINISHED"....and he's talking about the Blood Atonement, the Legalist cannot understand the word "finished".
They refuse to believe it, and are found opposing the finished reconciliation, by trying to keep themselves saved.

A.) They are trying to finish what is already finished, 2000 yrs ago.

 

[The Kreisel]

Legalism blinds the mind so that they can't see what you just stated.
You stated, we ARE reconciled.
Why? Because Jesus has ALREADY accomplished this, on the Cross, and then by His death and Resurrection.

He is our reconciliation.
The legalist believes that doing something is the reconciliation, or keeps it.

When they read Jesus saying....>"its is FINISHED"....and he's talking about the Blood Atonement, the Legalist cannot understand the word "finished".
They refuse to believe it, and are found opposing the finished reconciliation, by trying to keep themselves saved.
A.) They are trying to finish what is already finished, 2000 yrs ago.

This take the damnationist's for a spin -
2 Corinthians 5:19 God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[Behold]

This take the damnationist's for a spin -
2 Corinthians 5:19 God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

YES !

That is the "Preaching of the Cross".

God does not count your sin's against you, if Jesus has paid for them all.
Jesus became sin of the world, John 3:16.... and this is the OFFER of "reconciliation".

Jesus became our sin and died for it 2000 yrs ago.

BUT, for this to be applied as "the gift of Righteosness", we have to be born again..
We have to give God our Faith in Christ.
When we do, God accepts it and gives us "the righteousness of God, In Christ". = "the GIFT of Salvation"....Born again.