Where is your sin?

[Ferris Bueller]

Well, the idea here is not that by trying to behave as Jesus's lifestyle, you prove you are not of the Devil.

Well, let's see.......

1 John 2:29
29If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

1 John 3:9-10
9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child

1 John 3:14
14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 3:18-19
18Little children, let’s not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will set our heart at ease before Him

1 John 3:24
24The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 4:12-13
...if we love one another, God remains in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we remain in Him and He in us
​

As we can see, we do indeed prove that we are not of the devil when we live like Jesus.

God does not accept anyone's lifestyle as their salvation...

Nobody believes it does. There's no reason to bring this up in a Christian forum.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Being born again is proof you have believed.

And a righteous life is how you know you are born again.

1 John 3:9
...he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. ​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Being born again is not something you maintain by holding unto faith, but rather its the Gift of Salvation that has been applied to you, once, and forever.
Its done.

It is through your continuing faith that you continue to have that which only needs to be applied to you once and forever.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...you can't deny Christ and still be in Christ.

...spiritual birth can't be undone by something you say, or how you behave.

He will deny you if you deny him.....

If we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
12 if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;
13 if we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13
​

You can not deny Christ in an outright rejection of Him in willful unbelief and belong to Christ at the same time. Christ rejecters do not have the benefit of that which they have rejected. Only believers have the promises of God. Not unbelievers.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've heard so many times, "Well, love will be shown by keeping the 10 commandments".

The love that shows to us that we are of the truth is something inside us, the genuine concern and desire for the wellbeing of others. The genuine desire and motions to give ourselves to others, to care for them, to improve their lives, their reward, their fruitfulness.

It's an entirely different way of looking at things.

Paul does not agree with you when you say that the love that shows you to be saved is not about keeping the law but is an entirely different way of looking at things......

Romans 13:8-10
8...whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” a and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” b 10Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.​

 

[marks]

Paul does not agree with you when you say that the love that shows you to be saved is not about keeping the law but is an entirely different way of looking at things......

Romans 13:8-10
8...whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” a and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” b 10Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.​

Nothing in this passages tells us that keeping the Law shows we are saved.

Love fulfills the Law, just like this fulfills lunch . . .

Well, even more so!

Much love!

 

[marks]

What I push against is arguing for OSAS instead of what really counts.......letting what you heard in the beginning remain in you. Solving the OSAS mystery one way or the other doesn't save you. Remaining in what you heard in the beginning does.

You push against our confidence in Christ.

And you seek to have confidence in yourself.

This is not wise.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's not the definition of the works gospel.

Define all that how you wish, I don't really use the term "works gospel".

Just the same, if it's up to you continuing to "do the right thing" in order to keep youself saved, well, call that "right thing" whatever you like. You have to keep receiving the eucharist. You have to keep believing. You have to keep doing good works. You have to keep not sinning. Whatever it is. It's on you. You are the one who's making it happen. You are the one who's qualifying yourself for salvation.

We are saved by grace through faith period. Jesus act of righteous obedience is what gives us justification. Period.

Much love!

 

[marks]

That is what I'm saying. But we're being told in this thread that believers who stop believing still get to go to heaven.

Let's define our terms.

Believers don't stop believing.

Believers believe.

You believe in Jesus, receiving Him, and God gives you rebirth.

That which is born of God sins not. So let me ask you. Is unbelief sin?

Much love!

 

[marks]

who you say should not attempt to continue to believe

Don't put words in my mouth! IF you want to quote me, quote me.

To post something I DID NOT SAY, though I know where you are getting this from, but you are taking it out of context, and making it sound like something else.

Being as you operate this way with my words, well, something to think about.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Where was Paul's statement that keeping the commandments shows you are saved? I'm not seeing that.

Love fulfills the Law, just like this fulfills lunch . . .

Well, even more so!

Much love!

You said love was 'an entirely new way of looking at things'. And yet Paul explains how love keeps the commands of God. Love is still 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'do not covet'......just like it's always been. It's not a new thing. It's new in revelation, but it is not a new thing at all.

 

[marks]

So you're using this to agree with Behold that even if you stop believing and reject Christ you are still saved and will go to heaven?

Come on! Even if even if what?

Believers don't reject Christ. Believers believe.

You assume they stop. We can stop trusting Him, in times of darkness. But that doesn't mean we stop being born again, or that the Holy Spirit left us.

God will train His children, and will produce the peaceable fruit of righteousness. But you don't think so.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You push against our confidence in Christ.

The surety of Christ's ministry is what gives us confidence to believe in him. The Bible says to not throw that confidence away!

And you seek to have confidence in yourself.

This is not wise.

Much love!

In me? That's a laugh. I can't even believe, let alone work, except that God gave me the gracious gift of faith from which I can believe the gospel.

 

[marks]

Well, @Behold , are you going to respond to this?

Let's talk about belief.

Let's talk about the person, maybe you, maybe me, who has heard the message of the Gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. You, or I, we believe, and we receive, and we are born again.

And a month later, something horrible happens, something so difficult we are caught up in a darkness of doubt, and we think God has left us alone in this mess.

We've believed, but we are not trusting Him in that matter, at that time. We've believed, and as a point of fact, God gave us birth, and we are begotten from Him.

That doubt, that distrust that God is going to just let some terrible thing happen, that's not the fruit of the Spirit, it's the work of the flesh.

Are you with me so far?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Come on! Even if even if what?

Believers don't reject Christ. Believers believe.

Don't tell me. Tell @Behold , lol!

You assume they stop. We can stop trusting Him, in times of darkness. But that doesn't mean we stop being born again, or that the Holy Spirit left us.

But you just said believers believe, believers don't reject Christ. Now you're defending believers who stop believing saying that doesn't mean they stop being born again.

 

[marks]

Can't you see that denying him and being unfaithful to him have to be two different things? Contrary to @Behold 's claim, you can't deny Christ and still be in Christ. You can be unfaithful and still belong to Christ (cheat on your taxes because you're afraid of a losing a few bucks, lose your temper when someone provokes you, etc.) but you can not deny Christ in an outright rejection of Him in willful unbelief and still belong to Christ.

Do you not see the difference between the flesh and the spirit?

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Define all that how you wish, I don't really use the term "works gospel".

Just the same, if it's up to you continuing to "do the right thing" in order to keep youself saved, well, call that "right thing" whatever you like. You have to keep receiving the eucharist. You have to keep believing. You have to keep doing good works. You have to keep not sinning. Whatever it is. It's on you. You are the one who's making it happen. You are the one who's qualifying yourself for salvation.

We are saved by grace through faith period. Jesus act of righteous obedience is what gives us justification. Period.

Much love!

You are ignorantly calling the works gospel 'anything you do to be saved', when it's quite clear in scripture that you must believe in God to be saved. How is that not doing anything to be saved? Obviously, you've misunderstood what the works gospel is. It surely doesn't include believing in God to be saved. Paul explains believing is exactly contrary and opposed to the works gospel and is in fact the very thing you are to do to be saved. Who told you the works gospel is you doing ANYTHING to be saved?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you not see the difference between the flesh and the spirit?

Much love!

Sin is of no account to the believer because the blood of Jesus forgives it, not because it's not in your spirit. When you sin you contaminate body, soul, and spirit.

2 Corinthians 7:
...let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit...​

You think you're safe because sin is outside of your inner self. No. You are safe because through your believing you are forgiven and made clean, body, soul, and spirit through Christ's ongoing ministry. Unless you are in unbelief. Then you no longer have access to Christ's completed, but ongoing intercessory ministry in heaven. Your sin is not forgiven.

 

[marks]

You said love was 'an entirely new way of looking at things'. And yet Paul explains how love keeps the commands of God. Love is still 'do not murder', 'do not steal', 'do not covet'......just like it's always been. It's not a new thing. It's new in revelation, but it is not a new thing at all.

Actually, what Paul said is that love fulfills the Law, not keeps the Law.

Love is not really, "Do not murder". Someone who loves doesn't need a prohibition.

Love fulfills the Law not by keeping the Law, but by doing the things in the Law because we love. The Law is mean for the ungodly, not the righteous man.

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Let's talk about belief.

Let's talk about the person, maybe you, maybe me, who has heard the message of the Gospel of salvation in Jesus Christ. You, or I, we believe, and we receive, and we are born again.

And a month later, something horrible happens, something so difficult we are caught up in a darkness of doubt, and we think God has left us alone in this mess.

We've believed, but we are not trusting Him in that matter, at that time. We've believed, and as a point of fact, God gave us birth, and we are begotten from Him.

That doubt, that distrust that God is going to just let some terrible thing happen, that's not the fruit of the Spirit, it's the work of the flesh.

Are you with me so far?

Much love!

I am with you so far. You are talking about doubt. I'm talking about unbelief. You can still be believing and have doubt. But you can't, by definition, be in unbelief and be believing at the same time. Unbelief means you are not trusting in the blood of Christ. Unbelief locks you out from the completed, but ongoing ministry of Christ. Whether you never really believed in it in the first place, or you stopped believing in it doesn't matter. What matters is you are in unbelief. You're going to hell if you stay in that unbelief, because unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God. That's what matters. It does not matter how you got there in unbelief. What matters is you are there. No opinion about OSAS can change that fact. You are an unbeliever. You are going to hell.