Who is HE?

[101G]

How does one person give something to another person when they are both the same person?
How does Jesus mediate between us and the Most High when He is the Most High?
Do you not see all the problems and contradictions this causes?

read, read, read, and then understand..... did you read Post #2 of the topic, "Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary", here is the link
Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary
well? ............. did you?

but first you question, "How does Jesus mediate between us and the Most High when He is the Most High?", ANSWER, Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." did you understand that? if not go on and rad that #2 post......

now that post #2 there answer Revelation chapter 5 . that's was one of the confirming way how I knew that the Lord Jesus was the Holy Spitiy
Let us schock you with some truth of this one God..... listen, he who sits on the throne in chapter 4 & 5 is the same one Standing before the throne in chapter 5 the LAMB....... YIKES!... say what? yes, the person who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 5 is the same one person who takes the book out of his own hand in chapter 5...... (smile)... ...... you have no clue, do you?. but read that post #2 in the topic, "Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary".
and then get back with me and then we can discuss.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

read, read, read, and then understand..... did you read Post #2 of the topic, "Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary", here is the link
Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary
well? ............. did you?

the Father spoke to David? im not understanding what your wanting me to see?

but first you question, "How does Jesus mediate between us and the Most High when He is the Most High?", ANSWER, Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." did you understand that? if not go on and rad that #2 post......

thats not a mediator, thats praying to the Most High like we have always prayed to the Most High.

now that post #2 there answer Revelation chapter 5 . that's was one of the confirming way how I knew that the Lord Jesus was the Holy Spitiy
Let us schock you with some truth of this one God..... listen, he who sits on the throne in chapter 4 & 5 is the same one Standing before the throne in chapter 5 the LAMB....... YIKES!... say what? yes, the person who sits on the throne in Revelation chapter 5 is the same one person who takes the book out of his own hand in chapter 5...... (smile)... ...... you have no clue, do you?. but read that post #2 in the topic, "Psalms 110:1 ……. contemporary".
and then get back with me and then we can discuss.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

you have me beat on the Rev passages, im not that well read on the book, its way to parable/prophetic, mystic and all the rest. and not to mention so many speakers. its full of good knowledge but the problem with the book is most of it calls for interpretations and these can go either way. im not a big fan of making my points off parables. i think the beginning is clear that the Father gave it to the Son, but after that the speakers go back and forth. i get what your saying on the passage, Jesus sent an angel, is the Father the only one with authority to command angels? isnt Michael an arch angel, wouldnt that be a higher rank of angel? Higher rank would denote authority. if Michael has that authority wouldnt Jesus?

 

[101G]

thats not a mediator, thats praying to the Most High like we have always prayed to the Most High.

Jaybird, didn't you know that the the Holy Spirit is the intercessor, as well as COMFORTER? listen, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him."

that's his, his, his, OWN ARM, who is HIM, JESUS, see Isaiah chapter 53.

i get what your saying on the passage, Jesus sent an angel, is the Father the only one with authority to command angels?

did you not read, "the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done"
NOW, Jaybird, who is the holy prophets, here that the angel speak of? ... that's right, the old testament prophets, especially them, and the New testament. the "Lord" is the Almighty. now, is not the LORD, all caps the Almighty? yes he is. so now do you have two "Almighties?" for there is only ONE "Almighty". if you do have two almighties, then you're in to polytheism by definition. and that's anti bible.

especially when you have two Gods sitting next to one another... YIKES!.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[jaybird]

Jaybird, didn't you know that the the Holy Spirit is the intercessor, as well as COMFORTER? listen, Isaiah 59:16 "And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him."

that's his, his, his, OWN ARM, who is HIM, JESUS, see Isaiah chapter 53.

the spirit is a lot of things, when Jesus walked on water, when Elijah looked down on His servant, thats the spirit.
a mediator acts between two parties.

did you not read, "the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done"
NOW, Jaybird, who is the holy prophets, here that the angel speak of? ... that's right, the old testament prophets, especially them, and the New testament. the "Lord" is the Almighty. now, is not the LORD, all caps the Almighty? yes he is. so now do you have two "Almighties?" for there is only ONE "Almighty". if you do have two almighties, then you're in to polytheism by definition. and that's anti bible.

especially when you have two Gods sitting next to one another... YIKES!.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

thats the problem, who is speaking? the speakers in Rev have been debated forever. i wouldnt know and like i said before, Rev is the last book i would ever use to make a point.
interesting what you said about the Most High, and i agree there is only one, you can not have two sitting next to each other, its interesting Jews that refuse to join the faith refuse because they claim they do not worship three gods, even more interesting that when Jesus and the 12 were teaching Jews came from all over to follow. i wonder what happened?

i am discussing with you not scripture, please dont be one of those guys that start claiming everything they say is equal to scripture.

 

[101G]

the spirit is a lot of things, when Jesus walked on water, when Elijah looked down on His servant, thats the spirit.
a mediator acts between two parties.



thats the problem, who is speaking? the speakers in Rev have been debated forever. i wouldnt know and like i said before, Rev is the last book i would ever use to make a point.
interesting what you said about the Most High, and i agree there is only one, you can not have two sitting next to each other, its interesting Jews that refuse to join the faith refuse because they claim they do not worship three gods, even more interesting that when Jesus and the 12 were teaching Jews came from all over to follow. i wonder what happened?

i am discussing with you not scripture, please dont be one of those guys that start claiming everything they say is equal to scripture.

Jaybird, you're not discussing, anything.... lol. but look, this is not for you, ok, no put down, but judging from your replies, you're not ready to accept the truth. so it's best to just leave this subject alone until you come into more knowledge....

but thanks for the conversation.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

I saw that in the atrocious idea you came up with that God, "shifted" himself. the best thing to do was say nothing.

This idea that you perceive as "atrocious" is nevertheless the very thing that you need to meditate on so that you can discover the truth about it.

What you need is a revelation of the Holy Spirit about what this idea really means; because I'm not sure that the word "shift" is completely accurate but I used it for lack of better terminology.

states, "And they shall see his face " BINGO, AND NOT SEE THEIR FACES..... because God is ONE PERSON. and NO, no one is sitting next to one another.... .. why? answer, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." if all of God is in him, then how is one sitting NEXT to someone else? do many see their error.

Because the Father is a Spirit who inhabits eternity; and the Son is the same Spirit as He dwells in a human flesh body.

JBF, see what I have in my head/mind I can understand by the Scriptures, and explain it, not some theory, that cannot be explained. the truth have no hidden deceptions. when one have the mind of Christ, they can explain what's been put in their heads...... the truth is in the OPEN for all eyes to see. but that's eyes who want to see, it's your choice.

Sometimes the truth cannot be explained in human terms. You may have an understanding of it in your mind; but to be able to relate it to someone in a way that they can understand may be beyond you. This is when it becomes necessary for the Holy Spirit to take up the slack and reveal to that person the thing that you cannot relate to them in human terms.

How does one person give something to another person when they are both the same person?

Realize, @jaybird, that this idea that the Lord "shifted" out of eternity into time does in fact explain your dilemma perfectly.

God the Father exists outside of time; He dwells in eternity. Thus, even if He were to leave eternity He would not be vacating eternity'; for since He dwells in eternity He dwells there eternally.

When He became a Man He left eternity but He did not vacate eternity.

So the Father remains in heaven while He is also incarnated on earth.

Do you see it yet?

How does Jesus mediate between us and the Most High when He is the Most High?

Jesus is distinct from the Father. He is, in fact, the same Spirit as the Father, and therefore the same Person; however, He is distinct from the Father in that He dwells in human flesh.

Is this helping you to see?

Do you not see all the problems and contradictions this causes?

I do not find any contradictions in any of these things.

 

[jaybird]

Jaybird, you're not discussing, anything.... lol. but look, this is not for you, ok, no put down, but judging from your replies, you're not ready to accept the truth. so it's best to just leave this subject alone until you come into more knowledge....

but thanks for the conversation.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

There is a discussion, its just that your arguments, with respect, are not very sound. You know a mediator is not one person speaking to another. And even if you do redefine this , now you got even more problems, now praying through (to?) a mediator is the exact same thing as praying to the Most High, which is exactly the way we were doing it before therefore what is the purpose of the teaching? It has no purpose now.

The beginning of Rev I pointed out the most simple thing, it was given to Jesus by the Most High, the Most High is the giver, Jesus is the receiver. And your response is that it only “seems” like that but if we ignore it and move on we can see where Jesus sends an angel and now we have basically laid the other scripture aside. Jesus says not to do that.

Jesus sits at His own right hand? You dont say you sit at someones right hand when the right hand is your own hand. I went into great detail explaining why this made no sense.

I explains and showed you why its a bad idea to clip scriptures together, your response was your not clipping scriptures together, Christians just have to put scriptures together? what? And I just didnt know what I was talking about because my beliefs are in such disarray and then went on to compare my beliefs to lies.

I have loved debating subjects all my life, been on msg boards the last 10 years. In the theology debates when people start with the “your not disagreeing with me, your disagreeing with Jesus / scripture” usually means they are desperate. Telling me things like im not ready for the truth sounds like sour grapes. I have been pretty patient here, have tried to be a gentleman even with your belittling commands “look” and “read read read” I am a grown man not a five year old. I am sorry your theories have so many holes in them, but to get mad and insult me for pointing them out is not right. And keep in mind. I am just a dumb country boy that turns wrenches for a living. If your getting this frustrated with me, what are you gonna do when a real theologian comes along.

No hard feelings I hope.

 

[jaybird]

Realize, @jaybird, that this idea that the Lord "shifted" out of eternity into time does in fact explain your dilemma perfectly.

God the Father exists outside of time; He dwells in eternity. Thus, even if He were to leave eternity He would not be vacating eternity'; for since He dwells in eternity He dwells there eternally.

When He became a Man He left eternity but He did not vacate eternity.

So the Father remains in heaven while He is also incarnated on earth.

Do you see it yet?

no that does not explain anything, it just causes more problems. you have kind of gone back to the "its a mystery" logic but your still refusing to see the most simple things, these teachings were given to mankind, written in the language of mankind. why in the world would the scriptures be written in terms that make no sense to mankind. and the sad thing is, the scriptures in fact do make sense, but when we add these doctrines, then start changing scripture, thats when everything gets so flip flopped.

Jesus is distinct from the Father. He is, in fact, the same Spirit as the Father, and therefore the same Person; however, He is distinct from the Father in that He dwells in human flesh.

Is this helping you to see?

i thought before you said Jesus was the Father?
if it was the same person it causes so much confusion, the baptism now is the Most High from the heavens saying this is the Most High i am pleased. the temptation, Satan is gonna try and tempt the Most High, Satan knows better than that, and then Satan, wiser than all of us, does not even know who Jesus really is? i could keep going.

I do not find any contradictions in any of these things.

there are a lot, i have pointed them out. if you want to see them, take a passage where Jesus is teaching, every time you see the name Jesus, replace with Most High, do the same with Father.
the Most High loves the Most High and does exactly what the Most High commands.
things like that.

 

[justbyfaith]

no that does not explain anything, it just causes more problems. you have kind of gone back to the "its a mystery" logic but your still refusing to see the most simple things, these teachings were given to mankind, written in the language of mankind. why in the world would the scriptures be written in terms that make no sense to mankind. and the sad thing is, the scriptures in fact do make sense, but when we add these doctrines, then start changing scripture, thats when everything gets so flip flopped.

Some things can only be revealed to a man by the power of the Holy Ghost.

We have finite human minds and cannot always comprehend the infinite.

Sometimes words cannot express the reality of infinite things in a way that we can understand; the Holy Spirit has to take you the rest of the way.

I would suggest getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39) so that you can have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Satan is gonna try and tempt the Most High, Satan knows better than that,

The devil is not as smart as you think; after all, he rebelled against the Lord in the beginning; and that was a stupid move on his part.

and then Satan, wiser than all of us, does not even know who Jesus really is? i could keep going.

Again, the devil is not as "wise" as you might think he is.

there are a lot, i have pointed them out.

Nothing you have pointed out has in any way stumbled me in my belief in the Triune nature of the Godhead.

if you want to see them, take a passage where Jesus is teaching, every time you see the name Jesus, replace with Most High, do the same with Father.
the Most High loves the Most High and does exactly what the Most High commands.
things like that.

That the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are co-equal and co-eternal should be what you keep in mind here.

They are the same Person; although Jesus is distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

 

[101G]

a poster said this, "if we get it right from the beginning, then we will end up RIGHT.

well let get the Lord correct.

Who is the Lord? the same person who is the LORD, all caps, only Diversified/Manifested in flesh.

Evidence #1. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

so who is God's OWN "ARM?" answer, read Isaiah chapter 53.

and then ask yourself, Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

In Bothe Isaiah passages, the LORD identify himself as "ME" as his "OWN ARM".

if one accept the bible as truth, one have their answer as to WHO the Lord Jesus is.... the LORD, the Father... diversified in flesh.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus is fully, all of God; He is not only God's arm; all the fulness of the Godhead dwells within Him in bodily form (Colossians 2:9).

 

[jaybird]

Some things can only be revealed to a man by the power of the Holy Ghost.

We have finite human minds and cannot always comprehend the infinite.

Sometimes words cannot express the reality of infinite things in a way that we can understand; the Holy Spirit has to take you the rest of the way.

so only those that the Most High gives the spirit can be saved?
so what happens when 2 men both claiming the spirit disagree on a doctrine?

I would suggest getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39) so that you can have the gift of the Holy Ghost.

only those that share your opinion are baptized?

The devil is not as smart as you think; after all, he rebelled against the Lord in the beginning; and that was a stupid move on his part.

Again, the devil is not as "wise" as you might think he is.

i am pretty sure that is exactly what Satan wants you to think. Jesus said we had to be wise as serpents, wonder what He meant on that.

Nothing you have pointed out has in any way stumbled me in my belief in the Triune nature of the Godhead.

if my belief had all these problems it would bother me, i would want to get it sorted out rather than ignore and hope for the best.

That the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are co-equal and co-eternal should be what you keep in mind here.

They are the same Person; although Jesus is distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

so if you read:
the Most High loves the Most High and does exactly what the Most High commands.
things like that.
that would not bother you at all? because if the exact same statement :

Jimmy loves the Jimmy and does exactly what the Jimmy commands.
was heard by most everyone else on the planet, they would think Jimmy needs serious help.

but you think this is how Jesus taught people? surely somewhere in your mind you know this is nonsense.

 

[justbyfaith]

so only those that the Most High gives the spirit can be saved?

Only those who are born again have His Spirit.

so what happens when 2 men both claiming the spirit disagree on a doctrine?

Either one or both of them either does not have the Spirit or else does not yet have the proper revelation from the Spirit.

Because we are all being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2).

only those that share your opinion are baptized?

I think it very probably true that only those who are baptized properly share my opinion.

i am pretty sure that is exactly what Satan wants you to think. Jesus said we had to be wise as serpents, wonder what He meant on that.

It most certainly behooves satan that you think of him as stupid so that you might underestimate him.

It does not change the fact that he is most definitely stupid.

if my belief had all these problems it would bother me, i would want to get it sorted out rather than ignore and hope for the best.

I don't see any problems in the doctrine of the Trinity as I believe in it.

so if you read:
the Most High loves the Most High and does exactly what the Most High commands.
things like that.
that would not bother you at all? because if the exact same statement :

Jimmy loves the Jimmy and does exactly what the Jimmy commands.
was heard by most everyone else on the planet, they would think Jimmy needs serious help.

I would say to you that God cannot be likened unto man.

but you think this is how Jesus taught people? surely somewhere in your mind you know this is nonsense.

I think of this as nonsense, nowhere in my mind.

 

[jaybird]

Only those who are born again have His Spirit.

there are a lot of people born again and the faith could not be more divided. not sure you know what the spirit is.

Either one or both of them either does not have the Spirit or else does not yet have the proper revelation from the Spirit.

and how do we know which is correct? Jesus answered this, those that produce good fruits. the trinity has lead to more deaths than any other doctrine. Jews used to follow Jesus and the 12, now Jews wont have anything to do with it, and if you ask why it has nothing to do with the trinity, it has mostly to do with the fact they are not allowed to worship three gods.
that sounds like a lot of bad fruit.

Because we are all being transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:1-2).

why does your mind only focus on manmade doctrines?

I think it very probably true that only those who are baptized properly share my opinion.

your the final authority on who is baptized properly, you ever hear of humility is a virtue?

It most certainly behooves satan that you think of him as stupid so that you might underestimate him.

It does not change the fact that he is most definitely stupid.

i am sure thats how most fools fall into his trap. good thing your smarter than the one that has been collecting knowledge and wisdom since the days of Adam.

I don't see any problems in the doctrine of the Trinity as I believe in it.

if scripture contradiction and bad fruit are not a problem, what exactly is a problem?

I would say to you that God cannot be likened unto man.

back to the "i dont know its a mystery" logic

I think of this as nonsense, nowhere in my mind.

if you see someone with mental problems, speaking nonsense, you would think thats how Jesus teaches. you really think that way of Jesus?

 

[justbyfaith]

your the final authority on who is baptized properly, you ever hear of humility is a virtue?

I am not the only one who says that one must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

i am sure thats how most fools fall into his trap. good thing your smarter than the one that has been collecting knowledge and wisdom since the days of Adam.

His head has been crushed (Genesis 3:15).

God catches the wise in their craftiness (Job 5:13).

if you see someone with mental problems, speaking nonsense, you would think thats how Jesus teaches. you really think that way of Jesus?

You might be surprised.

The person who appears to be speaking foolishness may in fact be the only one who is preaching the gospel in a proper manner.

1Co 1:18, For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19, For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20, Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22, For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23, But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24, But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25, Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26, For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27, But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28, And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29, That no flesh should glory in his presence.

 

[jaybird]

I am not the only one who says that one must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

But if they do not agree with your opinions, opinions that dont agree with scripture, logic or plain reasoning, they are not baptized and not “real” Christians. in other words you think your the final authority. when Jesus comes back i hope He agrees with you, i would hate for Him to be wrong.

His head has been crushed (Genesis 3:15).

God catches the wise in their craftiness (Job 5:13).

Satan is god of this world, and this world is not in very good shape. The governments are corrupt, half the world live in poverty, widespread suffering and dispare, 400 thousand kids go missing each year in the US alone, global child sex trafficking, and so much more.

IMO Satan is very good at his job and only a fool would think he is an idiot.

You might be surprised.

The person who appears to be speaking foolishness may in fact be the only one who is preaching the gospel in a proper manner.

1Co 1:18, For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19, For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20, Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1Co 1:22, For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23, But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24, But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25, Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Co 1:26, For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
1Co 1:27, But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1Co 1:28, And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
1Co 1:29, That no flesh should glory in his presence.

What in the world are you talking about? These passages have nothing to do with the subject at hand. when the bible uses the word "equal", it means equal, it does not mean some alternate reality "equal" where equal means something completly different, and if there was a different meaning, you would need a bible passage that says there is a different meaning, manmade doctrine does not mean we get to change the bible when it conflicts with the doctrine. When the bible speaks of Jesus being equal to the Most High He can not share the identity of the one He is equal, it proves there are two of them. Only two things can be equal to another, thats what it means.

 

[justbyfaith]

When the bible speaks of Jesus being equal to the Most High He can not share the identity of the one He is equal, it proves there are two of them.

There are two of them, there is no doubt about that. They are distinct from one another.

It is the same Spirit and therefore the same Person who both inhabits eternity and also dwells in human flesh in the Person of Jesus Christ.

But because one is a Spirit only, and the other dwells in human flesh, they are distinct from one another as Persons.

I think that you can see what I am saying.