NOTE: This text settles the fact that trinitarianism is bunk. It does not say God the father but God (in his unitarian nature) AND Father of JC. See the difference? I doubt it.
Who is Jesus' Father? HS or the Father?
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NOTE: This text settles the fact that trinitarianism is bunk. It does not say God the father but God (in his unitarian nature) AND Father of JC. See the difference? I doubt it.
No matter the severity of the contradiction(s) of this subject and OP that must impact and resonate in their brain, and there are many, their output is still the same: 'Black is still White' for them.
Did you notice how carefully that statement in John 4:24 has been crafted, so that there would be no misunderstanding?
It does not say that "God is the Spirit" but rather "God is spirit" (as shown in the NASB and other translations with capitalization). This corresponds to the Greek: πνεῦμα ὁ θεός καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν.
And this is true: God the Father is spirit and the Holy Spirit is also spirit (immaterial). But no one in their right mind will say that the Father is the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the Father. They are distinct as shown in Matthew 28:19.
Playing semantic games are we? It does not have to say God the Father (in that verse) since that is a given. And other verses will confirm it (Heb 1:8,9).
You mean the corrupted text, not found in the original manuscript, which simply read, "in my name?"
What is given is AND. God and Father. This is not the same as God the Father. It is the same as God alone is the father alone.
Again, in modern parlance, Heb 1:8,9 reads you will sit forever on the throne of God. Not the same as who sits on it IS God. See the difference? I doubt it.
You know that Matt 28:19b is not in any of the earliest scriptures texts? The original ones had only 'in Jesus' or 'in his name' as in Acts and other NT scripture.
And making a fuss about adding in a definite article or not, before 'Spirit' does not alter the fact that the Father God is THE SPIRIT for the purpose of understanding of the verse for PERSONAL impact, and SPIRIT for what the FATHER is composed of.
Here is an OT scripture that says the Father is (THE) SPIRIT..
Isaiah 63:10 (NASB) But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He (YHWH) turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them. Just a note: The Father HAS/IS THE HOLY SPIRIT in this Isaiah verse for emphasis. Definite article intended here.
The New Testament, also concurs this truth:
Romans 8:11 (NASB) But if the (THE) Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Note: The Father is THE SPIRIT...and THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER dwells in me in the form of Christ's Spirit, directly!
theefaith may not have realized how he destroyed his doctrine when invoking The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not. (2 Cor 11:31). NOTE: No mention of a 3rd being, a distinct person of HS because the Apostles were not trinitarians.
Well it's obvious to you or I. Does it register with him is the question? I don't think so. He and others use their 3rd person sparingly, when they have to, or forced to, because it is their weak, really broken link, in their Triune concept of God. It is their perpetual dead weight if you will, until they realize and revitalize it and attach it to its true owner, the Father.
In the book by Rubenstein When Jesus Became God, he explains it was just a smoke screen, an after-thought to the real passion of the 4th century, the man-is-god thesis. Still true today. Few trinitarians exert much time and energy defending how there are 2 Spirits, Father and HS.
In another thread a poster pointed out how in Revelations it says God has 7 Spirits. I guess in our era of self-identification everything somehow adds up to 3.
The last part of the 7 spirits should shake up a few souls.....this is a another lead into another thread/OP...that should ensure much debate...
The symbols of numbers in scripture and outside are very popular these days and I believe the top pick is number 3...used by atheists and professing Christians alike. Actually there is a blur today. Well even on this site I see 'Christians' speaking of compromising with other religions and doctrines that value the number 3 in their divine worship....very deceptive indeed
Confusing the Father with the Holy Spirit is modalism, and not orthodox teaching. The Spirit is defined as God's presence being manifested in various places in the created universe. Although God is omnipresent He manifests Himself within the universe in various places at various times.
In other words, God is everywhere at once, and also reveals Himself in particular places in the universe at various times. God appears as two distinct Persons, in this regard.
It is the same with the Father and the Son. The Father is everywhere and uncreated, and yet He can appear in the personality of Jesus, a man. Thus, God shows Himself to exist as two persons. And if you add the Holy Spirit, you have God in 3 Persons, blessed Trinity. Page 131 in the Lutheran hymnbook.
and Jesus the Beloved Son of God is the Word of God explain how that works in your hack job.
all living things are, and have presence and express themselves in their presence. there is God, His Presence and God's Word expressed in His Presence. the first three verses in Genesis show this, but make no mistake your spoken words are from you in your presences, therefore from you, not of your presence. there is a distinction between the three that are one not without the other.
why people like this try to make God out to be some oddity, i don't know.
The best way to explain this (IMO)
I replied earlier ,that they are one .It's like this ,let's say you are a husband a father and a supervisor
When you go to work ,you are Boss
When you get home you are Daddy to your children, and you are Husband to your wife
In other words , you have three titles , but you are still one person
I replied earlier ,that they are one .It's like this ,let's say you are a husband a father and a supervisor
When you go to work ,you are Boss
When you get home you are Daddy to your children, and you are Husband to your wife
In other words , you have three titles , but you are still one person
Complete disregard for the Law of Identity. Starting with your doctrine, you can impose it onto any text since no words bind.
In your above example, you are limiting arbitrarily the title to 3. He is a brother, son, neighbor and friend. That makes 7. The list can go on and on. However, we use words to differentiate as well as connect.
When the resurrected Jesus says in John 20:17 that he is going to his God, this is language usage referring to a different being - not himself.
A far better explanation is there is only 2 beings, God and his adopted son. There is no 3rd being. God is Spirit and his Spirit is Holy. This is consistent with the OT texts, which never attempted to allocate personhood to an attribute of God. This attribute of God, his Spirit, is now also in us, his other adopted children.
Thanks for the response ,that's just the way I see it. It's like that's one of my hardest thing to comprehend in scripture.
Glad we gonna find out one day, again I like your explanation
Is it revealed to every true believer in God? I think not! I do believe in God and His Son, Jesus, but I am not a trinitarian!
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
To be frank, this is the kind of philosophical nonsense that can only be expected from trinitarians. For starters, the Holy Spirit is the power through which Christ and the Father exercise Their will. Secondly, Jhn 1:1 clearly says Christ previously existed as the God Being known as the Word and that there was only 1 other God Being that eventually became the Father. Third, that same book says nobody has ever seen the Father or heard His voice. So when you say the Father manifested Himself through Christ, you're calling John(and essentially Christ since He was the Man who made that statement) a liar.Confusing the Father with the Holy Spirit is modalism, and not orthodox teaching. The Spirit is defined as God's presence being manifested in various places in the created universe. Although God is omnipresent He manifests Himself within the universe in various places at various times.
In other words, God is everywhere at once, and also reveals Himself in particular places in the universe at various times. God appears as two distinct Persons, in this regard.
It is the same with the Father and the Son. The Father is everywhere and uncreated, and yet He can appear in the personality of Jesus, a man. Thus, God shows Himself to exist as two persons. And if you add the Holy Spirit, you have God in 3 Persons, blessed Trinity. Page 131 in the Lutheran hymnbook.
The trinity is not only unbiblical, it's a completely illogical doctrine. The fact that Romanists have contradicted and confused each other with this doctrine about a god with an identity disorder for centuries should be evidence enough that the Bible never supported it. That's without mentioning the fact that history shows a sun worshiping emperor in Constantine declaring which version of this doctrine was going to be officially taught as orthodox throughout the empire without ever consulting the Bible.
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