Who is the AntiChrist? (Identifying Him)

[Cassandra]

Yes, you are right. I was tired at the time I made the post. And some people think the beast is Nebuchadnezzar. But that is not what @The Light wrote. He wrote Nimrod. My mistake.

I just went back and edited my post #571. And took that line out about Nebuchadnezzar.

I do the same thing when I'm tired and posting here, and my spelling becomes atrocious!!

 

[Douggg]

I do the same thing when I'm tired and posting here, and my spelling becomes atrocious!!

I hear you. I don't think I have ever made a post where I didn't have to go back and edit it for mis-spelled words, left out words, and grammar.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Not at all, it's just keeping to the actual Bible Scripture... as written:

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Verse 10 -- "seven kings" TOTAL...
"five are fallen" = five beast kings already past history
"and one is" = the 6th beast king DURING Apostle John's day!
"the other is not yet come" = the 7th beast king, still not yet come today, and will be the coming Antichrist for the end of this present world!

Verse 11 -- "the eighth" beast king.
...has to be for the future after... Christ's return, because the 7th beast king is the Antichrist for the end of this present world.

Try to stay with what is actually... written in that Bible Scripture.

Incorrect interpreation. I will response tonight.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Gog-Magog in Revelation 20 refers to that ti will be the same nations as were involved in the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39, a thousand years earlier, which takes place 7 years before Jesus's Second Coming.



Not "will come again" in the text of Revelation 17:8. But the beast that was, and is not, "and yet is." What that means is that the world will see the person alive, then he dies, and the world then sees him come back to life.

I made these two visuals of what will happen....

The beast that once was and is not, and is in the bottoless pit - is the serpent beast in the garden of eden used by Satan. The part of the verse in red. The part in blue is about the end times person - who when he becomes possessed by the spirit of the serpent beast ascending out of the bottomless - becomes the beast-king.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Before being killed the person commits the transgression of desolation act of going into the temple (to be built), sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood. Because of his audacious act, God in Ezekiel 28:1-10 has the person assassinated. And in Isaiah 14, finds his soul in hell, mocked. In Isaiah 14:18-20, God in disdain for the person, does not allow his body to be placed in an ornate tomb like other well-known kings, and cast his soul out of hell back into his lifeless body.

It will be the strong delusion that that God sends in 2Thessalonians2:11 to those who will have believe the person's initial lie of having achieved God-hood.




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One word: Ridiculous! Purely speculation. You do not even know what is God's definition of the beast. What do the heads represent? How did one of the heads get fatally wounded? How does it heal? Nothing to do with Satan possessing a human body. Silly.

 

[Davy]

Incorrect interpreation. I will response tonight.

Incorrect conversation, don't count on me reading it.

 

[The Light]

I don't think Nimrod was ever referred to as a beast - like the serpent beast.

Is it claimed that some have discovered the bones of Nimrod ?

2003.........the tomb of Gilgamesh who is Nimrod

Nimrod is the King of Babylon and the Assyrian that is described in Isaiah 14.

 

[ewq1938]

The false prophet has an image made of the beast in Revelation 13:14. The image of the beast is that of a man, as the number of the beast, 666, is also that of a man, not a kingdom, in the text of Revelation 13:18

The image is not described so you cannot say it is an image of a man with proof. Also, the ten horned beast is a kingdom in Daniel so it is also a kingdom in Revelation.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Incorrect conversation, don't count on me reading it.

Not my problem. I can see that you and Douggg are just saying things like this because you could not answer my questions honestly about God's definition of the beast, the head, the meaning of a fatal wound, and the healing of the head, etc. My response will be posted here as a public record for anyone to read why your position does not represent God's Word accurately.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Not at all, it's just keeping to the actual Bible Scripture... as written:

Sure. We both read the Scripture, but who has the correct understanding of what God is talking about? That is the question!

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Rev 17:9-10
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Here is the mind which hath wisdom. The mountain represents KINGDOM in which kings rule. The number seven in Scripture signifies complete. God speaks of 7 kings or reigns, give being fallen, one was (at the time), and one kingdom was yet to come. Again 7 = complete rule of this kingdom, the 7th, the final chapter (so to speak). Moreover, note what it says about the beast -- that he is the eighth and is of the seven! In other words, Satan's reign is part of the seven, not one apart from it. And the final clue, the 10 horns were kingdoms not realized as yet (at the time John penned this), but who would reign one hour with "THIS" beast. The 10 kings arise as part of this final rule of Satan depicted in the image. They rule for one hour (a short period) with this final manifestation of this Beast's power. So I'd say it is pretty conclusive that the beast was before John, was around at the time of John and most of the New Testament period (but restrained), and would come again (when Satan was loosed). It clearly not a beast that doesn't exist until the latter times.

THerefore, God is not talking about a particular country, empire, or a man here as the "beast." The beast is the body of Satan, making of people under his influence. No one man. Not one country. Not a resurrected European empire, etc.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Verse 10 -- "seven kings" TOTAL...
"five are fallen" = five beast kings already past history
"and one is" = the 6th beast king DURING Apostle John's day!
"the other is not yet come" = the 7th beast king, still not yet come today, and will be the coming Antichrist for the end of this present world!

Verse 11 -- "the eighth" beast king.
...has to be for the future after... Christ's return, because the 7th beast king is the Antichrist for the end of this present world.

No, the seventh beast is the body of false prophets and christs. The 8th king is Satan himself becasue the false prophets and christs agreed to rule with him for one hour and give the kingdom (Church) to him. That is when Satan, as 8th king, is revealed to the Elect, where he now rules through the false prophets and christs IN GOD'S HOUSE!

2Th 2:3-4
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Satan rules the church BECAUSE his false prophets and christs rules in the church! Nothing to do with Roman, RCC, New European Union, or New York etc. But God's New Testament congregation where she is being judged for her unfaithfulness! You are looking at the wrong place, wrong Israel, wrong interpreation of the beast, etc.

The fatal wound and healing of the head upon the beast has to do with Satan's power that has been restrained since the Cross so that Christ could build His church through his Two Witnesses UNTIL their testimony for the purpose of salvation is finished, then Satan will be loosed from the bottomless pit and be used by God to test Church's faithfulness. And becasue of false prophets and christs has deceived many in the church who believes their lies, and by this, they agreed to give their church to Satan (in exchange for a rule for one hour in the church) where Satan will finally rule and be worshipped IN THE CHURCH instead of Christ. This is how the 8th king be revealed but is OF THE SEVEN.

Selah.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Gog-Magog in Revelation 20 refers to that ti will be the same nations as were involved in the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 38-39, a thousand years earlier, which takes place 7 years before Jesus's Second Coming.

No no no. Gog and Magog have nothing to do with physical nations coming down on national Israel. You do not have a spiritual understanding of what these nations represent and WHAT THEY WEAR! You are not listening because you are blind thinking it is all about the Middle East!

Eze 38:3-6
(3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
(4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
(5) Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
(6) Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Armour
Bucklers
Shields
Swords
Helmet

Sound fimiliar? Think about what we, True Christians, wear in Ephesians 6?

God did not mention Russians, Iranians, or Libyans here. Neither did He talk about modern tanks, guns, or missiles. Instead, God is warning us about the enemies within the church who pretend to be Christians but lack Gospel Truth. These individuals are the ones we must fight against within the church. These are the very people that Satan deceives through his false prophets and christs! They are the "many people with thee." Unfortunately, many people like you are too distracted by world news and fail to understand God's prophecies. God's warning is not about the big bad red Russian bear coming down on Israel, but rather about the enemies within the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church, where Satan wants to rule! Not temple mount as you think!

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Before being killed the person commits the transgression of desolation act of going into the temple (to be built), sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

Sigh!!

Because of his audacious act, God in Ezekiel 28:1-10 has the person assassinated.

Sigh!!

And in Isaiah 14, finds his soul in hell, mocked.

his soul in hell and being mocked? Sigh!!

In Isaiah 14:18-20, God in disdain for the person, does not allow his body to be placed in an ornate tomb like other well-known kings, and cast his soul out of hell back into his lifeless body.

Huh? Sounds like a bad speculation!

It will be the strong delusion that that God sends in 2Thessalonians2:11 to those who will have believe the person's initial lie of having achieved God-hood.

(rolling eyes).

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How absurd. Totally speculation! This is NOT what God talked about at all.

 

[Douggg]

The image is not described so you cannot say it is an image of a man with proof. Also, the ten horned beast is a kingdom in Daniel so it is also a kingdom in Revelation.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is a man who will be cast into the lake of fire. The image is that of the beast - a man. In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings give their kingdom over to the beast - a man.

 

[TribulationSigns]

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is a man who will be cast into the lake of fire. The image is that of the beast - a man. In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings give their kingdom over to the beast - a man.

Wrong again. The beast is NOT "a man."

The beasts are often used in Scripture to signify the animalistic flesh driven nature of man! For example, without Christ, man is a creature of beast without conscience or wisdom, and like a beast his driving force is to get whatever it desire, to tear, to devour, without consideration for law. It is often used to represent kingdoms or individuals as a token of those who live by the flesh (carnal nature) rather than the Spirit of God's law. I also believe that Revelation chapter 13 uses this imagery to paint a portrait of the carnal kingdom of Satan, as well as the false prophets whom he empowers to devour. The carnal, rebellious, disobedient man ruled by Satan is the likness (image) of the beast. Selah!

People, let's examine the verses in context:

Revelation 13:6-7

• "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
• And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Same as Revelation 20 when Satan is loosed from the Pit to make war with the saints, or in Revelation 11 when beast comes out of bottomless pit to wage spiritual war, and to overcome and kill Two Witnesses (saints and their testimony).

Revelation 13:8-9

• "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
• If any man have an ear, let him hear."

All of those who aren't sealed of God in Israel worship the carnal, Pseudo or Antichrist instead of God. He has deceived them so that they serve him, thinking they do God's service.

Revelation 13:10-11

• "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
• And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

John sees another vision of a beast coming up from the earth. The earth signifies they come up from the world, and this beast has two horns like a lamb, but speaks as a dragon. This beast represents the body of false prophets and christs! They come LOOKING LIKE they have the power of the messenger of light (horns signify power, the number two signifies the truthful witness of the church), but what gives them away is that they speak as the Dragon, which is Satan. In other words, they appear as a messenger of light, but their gospel is false and of the adversary Satan. THat is why they are false prophets and christs!

So the FIRST beast, whom the false prophets cause men to worship, represents the antichrist, or more to the point Satan's substitute kingdom. It is the body of false worshipers. Not one man. Revelation is written this way because just as the true church is represented by the body of Christ, and the Old Testament congregation by the body of Moses, the false congregation is seen as the body of the anti (substitute) or false Christ. The false prophets are those who cause the unfaithful to depart from Scripture and worship Him. All Israel who are not sealed unto the day of redemption.

Revelation 13:12-14

• "And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
• And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
• And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

The deadly wound was given the beast who is to be worshiped at the cross. Christ dealt the adversary a death wound so that he could not deceive the nations (and the church could be built), but at this time Satan is loosed from his prison. This is spoken of as the deadly wound being healed, and the reason is so that the unfaithful people of the world might again serve him (as judgment). The false prophets, the second beast, deceive the unfaithful people of the church and seduce them into serving this antichrist kingdom by means of false miracles, signs and wonders. Remember, Christ was bound for the specific purpose of the nations not being deceived. Now that He is loosed, his false prophets AGAIN deceive the nations, in order to usher in the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 13:15-16

• " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
• And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

The false prophets give life to the likeness of the Antichrist by propagating their false teachings, which leads to them overcoming the true church and causing all the faithful therein (the two witnesses) to be killed (silenced). Those remaining as a judgment of God are said to be marked on their hand (not literally as some suppose, but spiritually) signifying their will belongs to them (right hand), and in their forehead, signifying their mind is sold out to Satan. Just as a cow is branded or marked to signify ownership, so this signifies these unsealed are slaves to Satan.

Revelation 13:17-18

• "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
• Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Not the number of "a" man as may be written in your modern "translation," but the original says it is the number "of Man," signifying the lawless man (man of sin) or man of lawlessness. The buying and selling signify the work of the church, meaning the selling and buying of the false doctrines (lying signs and wonders), and no one can do this work except those who have been spiritually marked slaves of Satan.

So the image of the beast is NOT about one man. The image is a likeness of Satan, When it speaks, it speaks the lying signs and wonders in the church that deceive many. Nothing to do with physical mark that one need to buy for physical food in order to survive or to worship a statue that can talk...which is a silly speculations on dispensationalism's part.

 

[ewq1938]

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The beast is a man who will be cast into the lake of fire.

Not a man remember Daniel? He said the ten horned beast is a kingdom not a man.

The image is that of the beast - a man. In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings give their kingdom over to the beast - a man.

Neither says a man.

 

[Timtofly]

Not Satan. He is not in the bottomless pit.

That is his home address. He is currently not bound under house arrest, yet.

I could say just as easy as you that this is talking about Satan, instead of Nimrod. Satan is the 7th head of all 3 beast: the dragon, the sea beast, and the scarlet colored beast. The other heads represent Babylon, Medes and Persians, Greece, Rome, and the ten toes. Those 5 given in Daniel 2 are fallen, dead and in the past, as of the Reformation. The 6th head is the government with the deadly wound, as there has been no empire since the Reformation. The 6th is healed by Satan, in the aftermath of the 6th Seal, which is the Second Coming. Because the Second Coming is the final harvest and Jesus and the angels are on the earth, preparing for the 7th Trumpet to sound.

Satan is the 7th head, waiting to be allowed as the 8th kingdom.

 

[Timtofly]

The false prophet has an image made of the beast in Revelation 13:14. The image of the beast is that of a man, as the number of the beast, 666, is also that of a man, not a kingdom, in the text of Revelation 13:18

The sea beast represents all of humanity, as coming out of the sea of humanity. So this 7 headed beast is from the human perspective. The image is in the likeness of the typical human. So not just an image of any particular human. The heads still represent the history of human government starting with Babylon in Daniel 2. Obviously this image is not necessarily from an ancient typical human, but a modern human of today's technological development. Nimrod would be an example of a pre-babylon and even a pre-assyrian human. Nimrod was the one world leader, but then God introduced language barriers and humans were divided.

The FP is the human spokesman of humanity at this point.

 

[Davy]

Brethren in Christ...

Do not be deceived on this matter about the coming Antichrist at the end of this world. It will be a 'man', that is, one with the 'image of man', and also a supernatural being at the same time. It will be Lucifer himself, here on earth, in our earthly dimension, in plain sight, working miracles to deceive the whole world.

Too fantastic to believe? It is for those who don't really understand what this world is about, and what it was that Lucifer did in the old world prior to this present world. And if a believer in Christ believes there will be a future world to come, then why do many brethren have difficulty understanding about the world before today's world, when Lucifer originally served God at His Throne, but then rebelled? If you don't understand this, then you likely will not understand the coming end time events for the end of this present world either.

Open your spiritual eyes and ears, quit playing religion, and listen to our Heavenly Father and His Son in His Word...

In Isaiah 14:4 through 27, God is using the titles of the "king of Babylon" and "the Assyrian" as types to point to Satan (i.e., "Lucifer").

Isa 14:12-16
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

In the above God is using Lucifer's own words against him. All that in 'green' above are Lucifer's own words with falsely claiming that he will be The GOD.

And God's answer to Lucifer's bragging...

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, "Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"
KJV

Brethren that are not yet taught by The Holy Spirit to grasp when God is giving a type parable in His Word may easily fall into their fleshy mind with thinking this isn't really about the devil, but instead about the flesh king of Babylon, or the flesh king of Assyria.

Other than the Isaiah 14:12 literally mentioning one of the devil's names, "Lucifer", which the KJV translators added, one reading that Isaiah 14:4-27 section of verses should still understand that God is literally pointing to the devil with those things, including that idea in verse 16 with those in the future that will see Lucifer locked in his future pit prison, looking at him and will say, "Is this the man...?"

The deceived of course will think about that, "Oh, God is talking about the flesh king of Babylon, or the flesh Assyrian, with that image of man." No, God is specifically talking about Lucifer there with that image of "man".

In all descriptions of angels that appeared on earth per God's Word, when their image is mentioned, it is always with the image of man. That is because God created the angels also with His Own Image also, which is the outward image of man. That is why Lucifer is also called a "man" in the Isaiah 14:16 verse.

Another point in that Isaiah 14:15 Scripture that reveals that is definitely not pointing to any flesh king, is the fact that it is declaring Lucifer's sentencing to the "pit", meaning the devil's future pit prison he will be chained and locked in on the day of Lord Jesus Christ's future return, per Revelation 20.

What does this mean for the very end of this world with the coming Antichrist-false-Messiah to Jerusalem that will play The Christ-Messiah?

It means the reason why the coming Antichrist at the end of this world will be able to work the great signs, wonders, and miracles, raining fire down to earth from heaven, is because he will be a 'supernatural' being with the image of man. It will be Lucifer himself, here on earth, with his angels, in plain sight, playing GOD. And if you don't understand this, then it means you don't understand what happened in that old world either when Lucifer first rebelled against God in coveting God's Throne (See also Ezekiel 28 for more parables about Lucifer's fall).

 

[TribulationSigns]

Do not be deceived on this matter about the coming Antichrist at the end of this world.

It is people who are deceived to believe there will be a supernatural man, possessed by Satan, who will rule the world. Totally false!

It will be a 'man'

Yes and no. Beast is not a single man. But many men make up the body of the beast.

that is, one with the 'image of man'

Image of man, where do we find in Scripture. Or is it another speculation on your part?

, and also a supernatural being at the same time.

(chuckle).

It will be Lucifer himself, here on earth, in our earthly dimension, in plain sight, working miracles to deceive the whole world.

I am sorry to say but many people got the Lucifer all wrong. They believe that Lucifer was a created angel being. That is not who God talked about. But this is a different subject to discuss later because I do not believe that you are ready to understand who Lucifer really is.

Too fantastic to believe?

No only fantastic, but false.

It is for those who don't really understand what this world is about

Huh-uh.

, and what it was that Lucifer did in the old world prior to this present world.

Exactly what is the "old world?" Show me the Scripture of your fantasy world.

And if a believer in Christ believes there will be a future world to come, then why do many brethren have difficulty understanding about the world before today's world, when Lucifer originally served God at His Throne, but then rebelled?

There was no "world" where God sat before the creation. That is another speculation on your part.

If you don't understand this, then you likely will not understand the coming end time events for the end of this present world either.

(chuckle).

Open your spiritual eyes and ears, quit playing religion, and listen to our Heavenly Father and His Son in His Word...

Hey, that is my line.

In Isaiah 14:4 through 27, God is using the titles of the "king of Babylon" and "the Assyrian" as types to point to Satan (i.e., "Lucifer").

Isa 14:12-16
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

The Lucifer that weakens or discomfits the nations is the messenger of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's word and rule by his own means. He's the sinful man, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law because he has the spirit of disobedience.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4

• "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
• Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden. Here is your Lucifer or falling star. It's the man who sins! The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. God is not talking about celestic being here! You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.

Lucifer is a word meaning bright star, and is further defined by the additional pseudonym of "Son of the morning," or Son of light or dawn which is indicating God's people. Why? God's people are called sons of the dawn because they represent Christ (Revelation 22:16). In this language and context of the king of Babylon having fallen from heaven, it is symbolic of a once fallen bright star. As I stated elsewhere, the stars in Scripture are symbols representing the sons (or children, which is the same Hebrew word) of God. In other words, his corporate congregation. In the days of Isaiah this was the congregation of Israel, in the New Testament it is the congregation of the New Testament church. Corporately we are all stars or messengers (not angels) of God and just as the children of Israel was subject to falling, so the New Testament children of God are subject to falling. Consider God's very clear declaration of that in Revelation:

Revelation 2:1

• "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"

The Lord addresses this things to the messenger (not angel) of the church of Ephesus and has a severe warning to the messenger. Please remember that in chapter one Christ Himself interprets the 7 stars of the Church as the 7 messengers of the church. With this context in mind, notice carefully what the Lord says:

Revelation 2:4-5

• "[Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
• Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

Once again, pay close attention to what the Lord specifically interpreted the candlestick as. He said it represented the church. Thus allowing the Scriptures to Interpret themselves, Christ has said to this fallen star, to repent and remember from where he had fallen or else God would remove his church out of its place. These aren't my words, this is what God specifically said in order that we might discern exactly what He is talking about. If we will receive it. Fallen stars don't represent angels, they represent messengers of God's house. The warfare in the kingdom of heaven was not the 3rd heaven, the paradise where God lives, it is in the kingdom of heaven represented on earth, God's congregation. The Kingdom of heaven which God spoke so many parables (Matthew 22:2-14) about during his ministry.

In this scenario of the ruler of Babylon being called Lucifer, a star that had fallen from heaven, it points to the stars or messenger of the Lord's congregation, just as it does in Revelation. Indeed, Babylon is a synonym for the unfaithful church as we've seen before and so it follows perfectly that this King of Babylon would be called a fallen star, and that Babylon would be used to represent the fallen church led by the sinful man, or man of sin ruled over by Satan. The language of Isaiah 14 is so framed to apply to the Babylonian king as he represents a shadow to reveal through him the great fall and destruction of those led by the spirit of Antichrist. A fall of God's congregation at the time of Christ, and a fall near the second coming of Christ when the sinful man dares to rule in God's house "as if" he were God.

There you go, your position on Lucifer has been refuted. Granted it may be hard for you to accept this truth because it is hard to undo years of teachings or indoctrination about "satan", "lucifer", or "angels" thinking God created angels in the beginning or "old world" and then fall to deceive men. That is not what Bible actually talked about. Sorry!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Not a man remember Daniel? He said the ten horned beast is a kingdom not a man.

Nope. Again, the beast is the body of Satan. All unsaved people under Satan is seen by God as "beast" because they have no mind of christ, no wisdom, no spiritual understanding... like an animal! So the beast that cast into the lake of fire really means that all unsaved people will be thrown into lake of fire. Not a man, nor a literal empire or country. Selah!

 

[ewq1938]

Nope. Again, the beast is the body of Satan. All unsaved people under Satan is seen by God as "beast" because they have no mind of christ, no wisdom, no spiritual understanding... like an animal! So the beast that cast into the lake of fire really means that all unsaved people will be thrown into lake of fire.

Except the beast is cast into the LOF a long time before the unsaved are so you are incorrect about that. The ten horned beast is an empire that isn't here yet, at least not in final form. Teh two horned beast is a man, the actual antichrist, and he doesn't present himself openly until the ten horned beast is in power.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Except the beast is cast into the LOF a long time before the unsaved are so you are incorrect about that.

Very unlikely. You believe there will be time after LOF so the beast will come out of bottomless pit. That is false. LOF is when Christ return where all unsaved (representing beast) will be thrown there. That is judgment day. There will be no 1,000 years after this.

The ten horned beast is an empire that isn't here yet, at least not in final form. Teh two horned beast is a man, the actual antichrist, and he doesn't present himself openly until the ten horned beast is in power.

Humm...you claimed the "ten horned beast":

1.) is an empire
2.) is a man.

Are you okay?