Who is the son?

[101G]

Addressing the OP only, and to all who want to hear and see God.

God has been telling us who he is, over and over again, scripture after scripture. but none have not taken the time to hear. well let's start to hear, and see God, (not with our natural eyes, but with our REAL EYES). Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Clearly, this one single verse tell us that this CHILD, that SON is the, a. MIGHTY GOD, b. the Everlasting Father.

this is made clear as day by God in the Writing of 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen." IMMORTALITY", it means "ETERNAL LIFE"

ONLY means no one else. and if the Son is the ONLY ONE WITH ETERNAL LIFE, THEN hOW IS HE THE father, FOR ISAIAH CLEARLY STATES HE'S THE everlasting .... FATHER. so how can one person "only" have eternal life, and yet is seperater from each other? ...... well, no that's impossible. it only means that they are the SAME one Person. well how can that be? answer "Diversity"..... ... (smile).

the bible is clear, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." RIGHT THERE IN YOUR EYES AND STILL CANNOT SEE IT, (one person, two titles). well lets make it clear, see that word "with", it the same word used in John 1:1 of the "WORD" that is "with" God and is God, John 1:1c. it's right before your very own eyes. yet you cannot see it, can you? the "WORD" is WITH God and is God, one person. with do not indicate a SEPARATE PERSOIN..... NO, here in John 1:1 and in Isaiah 41:4 WITH indicate the same ONE PERSON.... BINGO. now if one cannot see that....... ????? ?? ???

I pray that the Lord Jesus open the eyes who want to see, and open ears who want to hear. this is my prayer.

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

Addressing the OP only, and to all who want to hear and see God.

oopos - clerical slip ?

The rest is , well, promoting false teaching....

 

[101G]

oopos - clerical slip ?

The rest is , well, promoting false teaching....

thanks for the reply, second, talk is cheap, as said, IF I'M IN ERROR, prove me out then, else as i have said before, if you want to just talk, that's what facebook and tweeter is for... (smile).

else speak or come with scriptures to discuss, else you will be ignored...

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

IF I'M IN ERROR, prove me out then

You did not listen to Jesus, or the Father,

or Moses either ? Why then would you listen to any poster today ?

 

[Truther]

1. The Father

2. The literally begotten Son of God who is a separate person and only began to exist from his human birth.

One of these two possibilities must be the correct answer.

#2 is semi correct.

His existence however was known of God throughout eternity because God transcends time.

He knew His only begotten son as easy as he knew Jeremiah before he was even conceived.

God is smart.

 

[101G]

what people are missing is the fact that the Son is IMMORTAL? 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

if he's the only one with ETERNAL LIFE, then he's the Father in Flesh. Dhu?

PICJAG.

 

[Joseph77]

No. That's not what is written, that's not what is truth revealed by the Father Through His Son.
i.e. duh, false.
He is not the Father in the flesh (an old , common, pitiable heresy)

 

[Taken]

Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

Isa 63:
[1] Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
[2] Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?
[3] I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
[4] For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.
[5] And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.

the question is what or "WHO" is God's ... "OWN" ARM?

No. The Question is WHO is Gods Son.
The "I" in Isa 63:5 is the same "I" in Isa 63:1, who comes from Edom, and those "LIKE him."

Are you unfamiliar with Edom?
Gods Word did not come from Edom.

metaphorically speaking, God "OWN" ARM is his POWER, (God himself). so the words that came out of God's mouth is not the Son, (but God himself, the ordinal First). for the scriptures states that the Son, the ordinal Last eminated from the Spirit who is the Holy Spirit that we call "GOD". supportive scripture,

I do not require a metaphor to TO improperly conclude who is being spoken of.

Esau the Edomite was full of fury, intent to Claim a Birth right (of his father's possessions) he no longer was entitled to possess, and even Jewish documents claim, at Jacobs burial, Esau was further enraged Jacob was being buried with his fathers.

It is Esau's jealousy of Jacob that enraged Esau. Keep reading Isa 63:1...learn how his own anger was making him an enemy of God.
Learn how no one was colluding with Esau's Anger. Learn how an angel directed Esau to reflected on Moses' teaching...Learn how Esau relented and became reconciled with God.
Isa 63:
[12] That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm ...
And Esau thereafter became reconciled with God.

Follow the Fact to arrive at the Truth.

John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father."

Not the question. Nor in Dispute.

which clearly means that which came from God is "Spirit". so that which was mad flesh is no thought, but spirit itself. to prove this, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:". here the "FORM" of God is NATURE, and God's NATURE is Spirit, for God is a Spirit. so no the Lord Jesus is no thought nor a word out of God's MOUTH.

Disagree with your understanding.
Your word out of your mouth is an express revealing of You in a verbal method.
Gods WORD out of His Mouth is an Express revealing of God in a verbal method.
Gods Sent His WORD forth out of His Mouth in a Body God Prepared.
That Body had the EXPRESS Ability to Speak Gods WORD.
That Body men were Told to Call by the Name JESUS, as God Himself Named that Body.
That Body was Manifested ON Earth (appeared and was Seen by men)...precisely according To Gods Will.
That Body was Revealed...as A Faithful, Humble Servant of God.
That Body was Revealed..."without Reputation"...For nearly 30 years!

You should have followed the Order and Discovered...When and How that Body's Reputation...Came to that Body...

Why you think ANY of Isa 63 has to do with me...is just your imagination.
I have never seen your testimony, that would reveal that would apply to you.

Nothing in that Text remotely indicates WHO the Son Is....which was precisely the question.

clearly he is "Spirit", and there is only "ONE" Spirit, and the Lord Jesus the ordinal Last is "EQUAL" with, not equal to, but EQUAL "WITH", meaning the SAME Person. and this is where "diversity" come in at...... (one might want to look into what Phil 2:6 is saying).

Clearly the Son was Not Revealed in the OT.
Clearly the Fortelling of the Word of God was to come forth out from Gods mouth and BE SENT to Where God Sends His Word.
Isa 55:11

Multiple Scriptures Reveal Gods Word, God Named Jesus. God and His Word are one in the Same. God Purposed IN Himself to reveal His Own Word to the World. Gods Word was Revealed in a Flesh Body God Prepared. Gods Word was Sent as a Humble Servant, without Reputation. The Moment The Body of Jesus was Revealed "having His Reputation Sent down from Heaven TO Earth"...was the Moment men Saw and Heard...

Luke 3
[22] And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

If you have NOT read and studied the NT, you may not Know "the Reputation" JESUS was sent to Earth "WITHOUT" ... WAS Sent To JESUS at about AGE 30...and His Reputation Revealed...IS: HE IS the Christ.
And further reading and Study Reveals Christ IS the Power of God. And the Power of God IS Gods Holy Spirit.

so we suggest you look back over your assessment, concering the Lord Jesus as simply as words out of his "own" mouth. for this is why I brought Isaiah 63:5 to your attention.

You can suggest all day long. Your suggestion Conflicts with Scripture.

God foretold His Word would come forth out of His Mouth. Scripture Verifies Gods Word did come forth out of His Mouth, in the Likeness as a man's Body God Prepared and was Manifest (Seen and Heard by men).

Jesus Himself testified ... He came forth out from God.

John 16:
[27] ... I came out from God.
[28] ... I came forth from the Father,

I have no clue how You concluded Jesus Christ IS God...by reading Isaiah 63.

Jesus' Name was not revealed in the OT.
Jesus being the Word of God was not revealed in the OT.
The Word of God, Jesus, was not Revealed in the OT He is Christ and The Power of God, who IS Spirit.

You muddy the Understanding of OT Truth ...
When you try to present OT text ... with Knowledge YOU "later received"...but that OT men DID NOT have.

Men of The Tribes of ISRAEL were to be the Beacon Leaders and Teachers To Gentile's to Lead Gentile's To God...instead many of Them were Walking away from God and mimicking Gentiles...you shoul have read All of Isa. 63...and learned One way God was reigning in those out of ISRAEL who were consumed with anger and hate for their own brother...(Esau an Edomite...enemies of his Brother Jacob and his clan).

remember this is a discussion, no put down ok, just asking you to reevaluate your assessment of "WHO IS THE SON".

Totally disagree with you Isaiah 63: is Key to understanding Jesus is the Son of God....and told you Why.

NT Scripture PLAINLY tells the Reader...
The Word of God was sent forth out from God To Earth. That the Word of God is With God, IS God, And called by the Name Jesus.

Thereafter approx 30 years of Gods Word, Jesus ON Earth...the Word of God, was Then revealed to Be Christ...who IS the Power of God.

1 Cor 1:
[24] ... Christ the power of God...

How you learned Understanding from Isa 63:..About Knowledge that had not yet been revealed is not agreeable to me.

Even the NT reveals ... He "shall be Called, the Son of God"...which falls in line with other Texts...
He was called Jesus, Lord, Teacher for 30 yrs Before it was Revealed He IS the Christ...and thereafter "Called the Son of God," BY those Who Trust to Believe.

And if you read Scriptures you will find Many WHO did NOT Believe...and did not Confess belief...but rather Grilled Him....
Are you the Son of God, are you the Christ...huh? huh? huh? Are you? Are you? Are you?.

I have Expressly stated my beliefs ... If you do Not Agree with my beliefs...challenge that.

But don't bring up some Obscure OT Text that has nothing to Do with the Topic or my claims and Try to create an unfounded dispute.

If you think Isa 63 has given you understanding of Christ Jesus being the Holy Spirit...that's you.
Isa 63 says nothing about Who the Son of God IS...which was the Question.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MattMooradian]

Or, you can just read Jesus' own words when He was confronted by the Jewish leaders about His claims of being the "son of God": "Ye are all gods, all of you, sons of the Most High."

 

[Joseph77]

Or, The Heavenly Father Reveals , (to infants/ babies)
or, The Heavenly Father Hides ... (from the educated)

 

[101G]

Thanks for the reply, second, after reading your post at the end, I will place this first.

1 Cor 1:
[24] ... Christ the power of God...

How you learned Understanding from Isa 63:..About Knowledge that had not yet been revealed is not agreeable to me.

Even the NT reveals ... He "shall be Called, the Son of God"...which falls in line with other Texts...
He was called Jesus, Lord, Teacher for 30 yrs Before it was Revealed He IS the Christ...and thereafter "Called the Son of God," BY those Who Trust to Believe.

here is the problem, christian just don't read the OT, which is the shadow of the NT to come. it reveals the NT clearly. if one just read the OT then one could understand the NT. for all the prophet spoke of the LIVING GOD to come in FLESH. that's why I brought this OT scripture to your attention. NOW if you like, you can skip what follows and go straight to #2 at the end of this post, for what you said here is the key to your not understanding what is revealed in the scriptures. so I suggest you go to #2. near the end. of this post.

#1.

No. The Question is WHO is Gods Son.
The "I" in Isa 63:5 is the same "I" in Isa 63:1, who comes from Edom, and those "LIKE him."

coming from Edom or not is not the question nor the answer. lets see God's arm, ok, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"m do you understand that?, and read verses 2-9 . now who is God's ... "OWN ARM?" the Lord JESUS, not some thought or word, but God himself in flesh.

I do not require a metaphor to TO improperly conclude who is being spoken of.

well Isaiah 53 is no metarphor.

Disagree with your understanding.
Your word out of your mouth is an express revealing of You in a verbal method.
Gods WORD out of His Mouth is an Express revealing of God in a verbal method.
Gods Sent His WORD forth out of His Mouth in a Body God Prepared.
That Body had the EXPRESS Ability to Speak Gods WORD.
That Body men were Told to Call by the Name JESUS, as God Himself Named that Body.
That Body was Manifested ON Earth (appeared and was Seen by men)...precisely according To Gods Will.
That Body was Revealed...as A Faithful, Humble Servant of God.
That Body was Revealed..."without Reputation"...For nearly 30 years!

see your error, that body is not the son, I made that clear in Isaiah 9:6. he who is in the body speak God's word which is God himself. that body was ment nothing but to house the Spirit that is in it. did you not know, the the body without the Spirit is "DEAD?"
so myour assessment of the body is in error.

NT Scripture PLAINLY tells the Reader...
The Word of God was sent forth out from God To Earth. That the Word of God is With God, IS God, And called by the Name Jesus.

yes, the word is GOD, that part you have correct, but the NAME JESUS is GOD "manifested name in the earth", not just the Son NAME, because the Son/the Word is GOD. so that is reprove.

Clearly the Son was Not Revealed in the OT.
Clearly the Fortelling of the Word of God was to come forth out from Gods mouth and BE SENT to Where God Sends His Word.
Isa 55:11

another ERROR on your part, the Son was revealed in the OT, but not MANIFESTED.... (smile). and yes, he was foretold to come, see 1 Peter 1:10 & 11. and Guess who was testifying... Christ before he came in flesh.... got that read 1 Peter 1:10 & 11.

I have no clue how You concluded Jesus Christ IS God...by reading Isaiah 63.

the clue is in the scripture itself, "MY OWN ARM", now I ask you is your own are a separate enity from you?, now read Isaiah chapter 53 and see who is GOD's "OWN", OWN, OWN ARM IS. my God that's plain as day. it's in the who's the "First", and who's the "Last", my God it's plain as day.
now to make it simple, listen, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." the ROOT is the FIRST, and the "OFFSPRING" is the LAST, if I was you I'll look up the term "OFFSPRING", and see what it means. as with the "BEGINNING", and the "END". oh it's so clear, right in front of one's eyes.

I have Expressly stated my beliefs ... If you do Not Agree with my beliefs...challenge that.

it not me not agreeing with your beliefs or anyone else, it's is your beliefs in line with the word of God?.

But don't bring up some Obscure OT Text that has nothing to Do with the Topic or my claims and Try to create an unfounded dispute.

well Isaiah is not some Obscure OT Text. have you not quoted from Isaiah? end of story.

If you think Isa 63 has given you understanding of Christ Jesus being the Holy Spirit...that's you.
Isa 63 says nothing about Who the Son of God IS...which was the Question.

Hold it right there, let's get it right, it's the Holy Spirit being the CHRIST... (smile). see the thing is this the Holy Spirit holds both title "Father", and "Son", because he diversified himself in flesh. BINGO.

so look it's not that I disagree with you, but it's just that I agree with the scriptures. and what you're posting is not agreeing with the scriptures.

#2. now at the beginning of this post you said this, "How you learned Understanding from Isa 63:..About Knowledge that had not yet been revealed is not agreeable to me". well the KNOWLEDGE have been revealed. and here it is, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" the "FORM" of God is "Spirit", and to be EQUAL "WITH" God is to be God, (because God is a Spirit, John 4:24a), make sense?. but how is Jesus EQUAL "WITH" God? it's revealed in the scripture itself, the term "Form" is the Greek word, G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
See also: G3445, G3446, G4832

so the root of this word identify the Son NATURE that is EQUAL WITH the Spirit. it is, G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).

Portion is another word for, "SHARE" that's the answer. the ARM of God is the EQUAL "Share" of his OWN, OWN, OWNself, just as Isaiah 63:5 states, (see why I posted it now). HIS, God "OWN" ARM, it's him. now can we back this up? yes, for John 16:27 states, "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God." see the word "came" here it's the Greek word, G1831 ἐξέρχομαι exerchomai (ex-er'-cho-mai) v.
to issue.
{literally or figuratively}
[from G1537 and G2064]
KJV: come (forth, out), depart (out of), escape, get out, go (abroad, away, forth, out, thence), proceed (forth), spread abroad
Root(s): G1537, G2064

to issue?. it means, "give or apportion (something) to someone as a share or task. and another word for Alloted in definition for G3313 μέρος meros is ISSUE you can google it if you like. now, remember I said that the Lord Jesus eminated from the Spirit, listen to its definiton. eminate, (of something abstract but perceptible) issue or spread out from (a source). BINGO, there is that "ISSUE", meaning that he is the EQUAL, SHARE if his OWNself. see how easy it is to understand God word when one search it out. what did the Lord Jesus say? John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." BINGO. he didn't say just search the NT scriptues only.... get it now. we must search all the scriptures so we may "RIGHTLT DIVIDE. so the Lord Jesus "eminated" from the Father.

so lets discuss the SCRIPTURES, not my beliefs, nor your belifs but the SCRIPTURES.

so I have shown you what I believe by the Scriptures, if you have any questions please ask. or if you have scriptures to support your position, then I'll respond as above in #1.

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

1. The Father

2. The literally begotten Son of God who is a separate person and only began to exist from his human birth.

One of these two possibilities must be the correct answer.

Jesus is the Father with clothes on. (Joking)
.

 

[Joseph77]

YAHWEH IS SPIRIT. (no clothes, no parts, no pieces) (Truth)

 

[Cooper]

YAHWEH IS SPIRIT. (no clothes, no parts, no pieces) (Truth)

And the Spirit of the Father became flesh.

(God in Christ.)

 

[Joseph77]

And the Spirit of the Father became flesh.

(God in Christ.)

Not according to anyone, no. (except heretics)

 

[Cooper]

Not according to anyone, no. (except heretics)

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. (2 Corinthians 5:19)

God in the flesh or God made visible.

And the Word (the creator) became flesh and dwelt among us, (John 1:14)



.

 

[CharismaticLady]

JESUS is the Father who is the ordinal "First". and JESUS is the Son who is the ordinal "LAST", meaning he, Jesus is the "First"/Father, and the "Last"/Son.

PICJAG.

I like that explanation. At the FIRST, Jesus was the Word, and was God. He had no beginning and no end. And the Last, Jesus is the embodiment of the Godhead - all three. Isaiah 9:6

 

[farouk]

Father, Son and Holy Spirit - God in Three Persons - is eminently a Scriptural, foundational doctrine.

 

[Taken]

101G

You are jumping all over the place.

I have and Do use the OT at times to support the Topic.

You post Isa 63:5 as A KEY Understanding of WHO the Son is...and made reference Isa 63:5 being a metaphor...

Then you jump to Isa 53 and say that is not a metaphor...but so what...neither did I.

Then you jump to The NT Philippians to convince me the Son of God IS God.

I don't require convincing. I am well acquainted with Gods Word (called Jesus) and
Son of God; Gods Spirit (called Power, Christ, Seed of God, Lord Jesus, Quickening spirit, Wisdom of God, God in the flesh, God with us.)

Luke 1:35
... that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

That Holy thing Born of her:

Matt 21:
[21] And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS...

BTW- understanding the Scriptures how God understands Scriptures come from God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

I like that explanation. At the FIRST, Jesus was the Word, and was God. He had no beginning and no end. And the Last, Jesus is the embodiment of the Godhead - all three. Isaiah 9:6

Father, Son and Holy Spirit - God in Three Persons - is eminently a Scriptural, foundational doctrine.

It's one person, three titles. the Holy Spirit is the only Person who is JESUS, and he Jesus the Holy Spirit holds the Titles, Father/ordinal First, and Son/ordinal Last.

PICJAG.