Who is this Babylon chick anyways?

[Brakelite]

And that is the proper question, for we know kings don't, and can't have literal sex with a city. So the question HAS to be, "how does a king, or anybody for that matter, commit spiritual/figurative adultery with a 'city'?" Adultery is devotion and intimacy with someone else other than who you are rightfully to be devoted and intimate with. The plain message of Revelation is that the essence of this whoredom/adultery is economic. There is certainly a 'religious' element involved with this, too, for the love of this world is so often connected with the worship of demons, whom pagans credit for giving them the things of the world.

I would take it further. We are talking about the present, for in understanding the closeness of these events, we must concede they are taking place as we speak, and the culmination isn't far away. So Babylon as a city, was destroyed and was prophesied never to rise again. So the city appellation must also be figurative. So when we look elsewhere in scripture, what cities are used metaphorically, and what do they represent? There are only two. Jerusalem/Zion and Babylon. Most of the bible is a tale of two cities. Spiritual Jerusalem, the global faithful church, and spiritual Babylon, the apostate church which are both global entities, which reinforces the idea of both cities being figurative.

 

[quietthinker]

Figurative is the primary language of scripture though not exclusively.

1..Jesus parables....'the lost son', 'the lost coin', 'the lost sheep', 'drink my blood, eat my flesh' etc etc
2..Paul's expressions of 'living in a tent', 'a house'
3..Paul uses Adam as a metaphor for all humanity
4..As is already mentioned in this thread, the cities of both Jerusalem and Babylon
5..The Sanctuary system with its rituals and furniture, it's dress code for the priests, it's lay out etc.
6..The tribes of Israel (12) .....made up of a bunch of scallywags (check what the brothers did to Joseph)
7..The greater message in the story of Daniel's three mates in the fiery furnace and the surrounding story
8. Israel as a nation itself

I could go on but suffice it to say that when we do not factor in the figurative, the objective of the scriptures remains obscure.

 

[David Boyer]

The reason why it isn't literal ecologist sexual acts is because Babylon the Great isn't a literal woman. Therefore a spiritual type of formication is not only warranted, but necessary.

Must be nice to come to such a simple minded answer. If the Whore is not a real woman then she is also not a real city? If it all isn't real it can be whatever fits your narrative.

Oh it's just figurative...

The Whore is figurative... but why would the fornication then be figurative? If the Whore is just a sphere of influence, then the sphere of influence could use literal fornication between kings and daughters of the Whore (which could be physical persons) to exert influence.

 

[David Boyer]

Yes, London is the real central hub for the world's financiers.

Answer for the ship masters in chapter 18 who are upset for they have lost their number one trading partner, not financier.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Answer for the ship masters in chapter 18 who are upset for they have lost their number one trading partner, not financier.

They've lost their system of commerce.

Modern history has been the battle between Nazi style socialism and Russia/China style communism. Both seek to control and consolidate trade and put it under state control and put an end to free and open, private enterprise. Communist socialism will win and put an end to capitalism and bring the whole world into submission to centralized authority. Brutal authority that will trample the earth as the world as never seen before. The vision of which made Daniel sick for several days.

 

[David Boyer]

They've lost their system of commerce.

Modern history has been the battle between Nazi style socialism and Russia/China style communism. Both seek to control and consolidate trade and put it under state control and put an end to free and open, private enterprise. Communist socialism will win and put an end to capitalism and bring the whole world into submission to centralized authority. Brutal authority that will trample the earth as the world as never seen before. The vision of which made Daniel sick for several days.

It's so refreshing to hear the ideas of children... Like laughter in the streets.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It's so refreshing to hear the ideas of children... Like laughter in the streets.

I think you are the one being immature. Why is it you are the only one who is allowed to have an opinion about Revelation? You can't prove your views any more or less than we can. You're terribly arrogant.

You still have yet to factor in the economic factor into your literal 'sex city' theory.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Most of the bible is a tale of two cities. Spiritual Jerusalem, the global faithful church, and spiritual Babylon, the apostate church which are both global entities, which reinforces the idea of both cities being figurative.

I can't help but to always think of the 'religion' of spiritual Babylon as being pagan, not a pollution of God's true religion, like Catholicism. I just haven't been able to see Catholicism as an end-time, global religion that captures the hearts and minds of the world. In my mind a lot would have to change for that to happen. Not saying it can't. I just have a problem seeing it happening. All respect to you and your views.

 

[Brakelite]

I can't help but to always think of the 'religion' of spiritual Babylon as being pagan, not a pollution of God's true religion, like Catholicism. I just haven't been able to see Catholicism as an end-time, global religion that captures the hearts and minds of the world. In my mind a lot would have to change for that to happen. Not saying it can't. I just have a problem seeing it happening. All respect to you and your views.

I understand. We can only make judgement calls on those things we see. Allow me to perhaps open your eyes maybe just a smidgeon... Take a look at the following, consider the wide ranging and contemporary nature of the ideology behind them.

 

[David Boyer]

I think you are the one being immature. Why is it you are the only one who is allowed to have an opinion about Revelation? You can't prove your views any more or less than we can. You're terribly arrogant.

You still have yet to factor in the economic factor into your literal 'sex city' theory.

That was your theory.

Show me proofs in Revelation for your ideas and I will entertain them. Unlike others on this site.

 

[Brakelite]

Must be nice to come to such a simple minded answer. If the Whore is not a real woman then she is also not a real city? If it all isn't real it can be whatever fits your narrative.

Oh it's just figurative...

The Whore is figurative... but why would the fornication then be figurative? If the Whore is just a sphere of influence, then the sphere of influence could use literal fornication between kings and daughters of the Whore (which could be physical persons) to exert influence.

The who're is much more than just a "sphere of influence". It's a real entity, a genuine living institution that covers the entire planet incorporating under it's aegis and controlling the lives of all who submit to her authority, every facet of every day living. Our work, our home, our education, our entertainment, our trade, our finances, and most importantly of all, our religion. All prophecy, particularly apocalyptic prophecy from Daniel, the gospels, Paul, and John, points to one major coming event... The second coming of the Messiah. Leading up to that climactic event, Jesus warned there would be false prophets, false Christs, much confusion, fear, and deception. And all the above brought numerous clues that clearly identify the major players in the drama. All of it symbolic, and for a reason. If the scriptures clearly and succinctly and specifically named the prime culprits for deceiving the world and their intentions for world dominion, how long do you think the scriptures would have been made available to the general public? For example. I'm Thessalonians Paul said there was existing in his time, an entity that was holding back the appearance of the Antichrist. Paul however didn't name him/it his letter, but make it clear he had previously identified that entity when he was in Thessalonica in person. Why didn't he name it in his letter?

 

[Brakelite]

That was your theory.

Show me proofs in Revelation for your ideas and I will entertain them. Unlike others on this site.

And your contention that there's some woman globe trotting the planet having sex with all the presidents, kings, CEOs, prime ministers etc etc etc and this is what God is so bothered about that prompts the final judgements? And you accuse us of weird theories?

 

[David Boyer]

The who're is much more than just a "sphere of influence". It's a real entity, a genuine living institution that covers the entire planet incorporating under it's aegis and controlling the lives of all who submit to her authority, every facet of every day living. Our work, our home, our education, our entertainment, our trade, our finances, and most importantly of all, our religion. All prophecy, particularly apocalyptic prophecy from Daniel, the gospels, Paul, and John, points to one major coming event... The second coming of the Messiah. Leading up to that climactic event, Jesus warned there would be false prophets, false Christs, much confusion, fear, and deception. And all the above brought numerous clues that clearly identify the major players in the drama. All of it symbolic, and for a reason. If the scriptures clearly and succinctly and specifically named the prime culprits for deceiving the world and their intentions for world dominion, how long do you think the scriptures would have been made available to the general public? For example. I'm Thessalonians Paul said there was existing in his time, an entity that was holding back the appearance of the Antichrist. Paul however didn't name him/it his letter, but make it clear he had previously identified that entity when he was in Thessalonica in person. Why didn't he name it in his letter?

It is not my contention that the Whore is a "sphere of influence". That was in reference to a previous conversation.

So, who is the Whore? You say a real entity that can't be named. Voldemort?

I see that Revelation gives the general outline and we should be able to see the correlation as time gets closer. Also the reason to rely on later prophecy. The fog of time/history.

 

[David Boyer]

And your contention that there's some woman globe trotting the planet having sex with all the presidents, kings, CEOs, prime ministers etc etc etc and this is what God is so bothered about that prompts the final judgements? And you accuse is of weird theories?

WHAT????

So I see you haven't understood a single thing I have said.

 

[quietthinker]

That was your theory.

Show me proofs in Revelation for your ideas and I will entertain them. Unlike others on this site.

David, your arrogance is hidden from you!

 

[David Boyer]

David, your arrogance is hidden from you!

So show it to me.
Do you know what is in my heart?
Do you know with what attitude I come to these conversations?

Has conversations on forums ever been misinterpreted? Rough(unpolished) or a Direct style misread as Rude or Arrogant?

How many questions have you asked of me to clarify something, before you have judged me for it.
Ask me now a relevant question that actually gets to my motives or intent.

If iron sharpens iron then only a fool expects no sparks.

 

[quietthinker]

I understand. We can only make judgement calls on those things we see. Allow me to perhaps open your eyes maybe just a smidgeon... Take a look at the following, consider the wide ranging and contemporary nature of the ideology behind them. View attachment 25704 View attachment 25705 View attachment 25706 View attachment 25707 View attachment 25708

hmmmm, quiet eye opening Bl

 

[quietthinker]

So show it to me.
Do you know what is in my heart?
Do you know with what attitude I come to these conversations?

Has conversations on forums ever been misinterpreted? Rough(unpolished) or a Direct style misread as Rude or Arrogant?

How many questions have you asked of me to clarify something, before you have judged me for it.
Ask me now a relevant question that actually gets to my motives or intent.

If iron sharpens iron then only a fool expects no sparks.

Self justification entrenches the arrogance!

 

[David Boyer]

Self justification entrenches the arrogance!

That's not a question and I think you know that.
Do you not justify the claims you make?
Do you just make a claim with no proof or references and expect it not to be challenged?

Nice world you live in.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I see that Revelation gives the general outline and we should be able to see the correlation as time gets closer.

Exactly.
Observation has led me to make these connections:

The beast out of the sea (a.k.a the anti-christ): Communist socialism. The head being China.

The beast out of the land (a.k.a. the false prophet): Various nations of the western world aligned with Nazi socialism (the military-industrial complex style of business/government) but won over to or conquered by communist socialism. Led by the two horned lamb of the United States.

The whore: The free economic system of the western world and it's associated false/pagan religious beliefs and practices, symbolized and epitomized in a major city of the free world (Rome? New York City? London?). Judged and destroyed by the beast and the false prophet and replaced with communist socialism which then rules over the whole world, all according to God's plan.