Why did God need to give us free will, or did He need to? Do we really have it?

[bbyrd009]

Well, yes I suppose that those who take people's free will or find ways to overcome people's free will through various methods, do view those people as slaves.

doesn't the Book even?

But what I'm referring to is a very deep rabbit hole.

the old wine is better, so people keep saying. let's hear it!

Original gangster

is what i had in mind, ya, Just means someone who has been around a long while, in that (this; this is that) specific venue

 

[truthquest]

@bbyrd009 I'm not referring to that kind of slavery. There are different kinds and levels of slavery and for different purposes and with different methods to achieve the goal of taking away people's free will. And of course I guess I don't have to say that this is a very bad thing to be tampering with people's minds that way and against their will.

So I'm an Original Gangster. I think I know what you mean. My sons used to introduce their friends to me as their OG's. And one of my sons told me that I was a real gangsta, in a joking kind of way, meant in a good way because I stand up for myself and others without fear.

 

[Helen]

So when the "new heavens" and the "new earth" come to be: Shall the "new earth" rotate upon an axis, shall the earth have an orbit? Or shall the earth be "static", an "image".

Or any of the above?
Maybe it is all speaking of a different dimension a different realm.
That is more what I am thinking. ( but then I don't have as much as you to think with :) )

 

[Helen]

If I were even granted a place at the table, I would be content even with the lowest of places, or merely being the servant of the table. Otherwise, find me out back.

In my time...I have heard that or similar so many times.
It sounds 'spiritual' and correct for us 'mere Christians' to say..Yet.
But I think God is happier when we say about ourselves what He says about us! Identity.
Go for the best, the goal, as Paul said, press for the best The Prize..God Himself. Better to give it all we have got..focus on the prize ..and then maybe find out later- "Oh whoops, didn't quite make it..but on this l.o.n.g.. 'table' I may be so far down at the end, I can't see His face, but I can at least hear His voice." ( we speak typology here)

Some say- " I am a wretched person saved by grace"
Others will say:- "I am called, chosen, set free , and headed towards Home"

Some approach a stranger and try to witness by saying- "Do you know if you don't change the path you are on, you will end up locked out of heaven."

Another will approach and say-" Hey do you know how much God loves you, and He has a great plan for your life?"

I am saying this to say, When you are actually there you will not just be happy to sit on the floor by the door..or at the far end of 'the table' you will wish with everything in you to sit as close to the Lord as you can get.

That is where "I" see the 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' coming in to the picture. (It's the cry of what 'could have been'). ..these I believe are the 'rewards' that Paul wrote about....
But...this is what I have seen over the years...I used to say it as you said it...but I believe God gave me a hard Gibbs-head-smack about that, and made me change my perspective and my vision.
Not trying to change your mind. Only God can do that, it's not my business. :)
New Year hugs...H

 

[Richard_oti]

In my time...I have heard that or similar so many times.
It sounds 'spiritual' and correct for us 'mere Christians' to say..Yet.
But I think God is happier when we say about ourselves what He says about us! Identity.
Go for the best, the goal, as Paul said, press for the best The Prize..God Himself. Better to give it all we have got..focus on the prize ..and then maybe find out later- "Oh whoops, didn't quite make it..but on this l.o.n.g.. 'table' I may be so far down at the end, I can't see His face, but I can at least hear His voice." ( we speak typology here)

Some say- " I am a wretched person saved by grace"
Others will say:- "I am called, chosen, set free , and headed towards Home"

Some approach a stranger and try to witness by saying- "Do you know if you don't change the path you are on, you will end up locked out of heaven."

Another will approach and say-" Hey do you know how much God loves you, and He has a great plan for your life?"

I am saying this to say, When you are actually there you will not just be happy to sit on the floor by the door..or at the far end of 'the table' you will wish with everything in you to sit as close to the Lord as you can get.

That is where "I" see the 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' coming in to the picture. (It's the cry of what 'could have been'). ..these I believe are the 'rewards' that Paul wrote about....
But...this is what I have seen over the years...I used to say it as you said it...but I believe God gave me a hard Gibbs-head-smack about that, and made me change my perspective and my vision.
Not trying to change your mind. Only God can do that, it's not my business. :)
New Year hugs...H

I hear you. And know, that I ran the race with all that I had. I am a little slower nowadays though. You are always free to point things out to me!

2Ti 2:5 And if also a man contend in the games, he is not crowned, except he have contended lawfully.

 

[Richard_oti]

Or any of the above?
Maybe it is all speaking of a different dimension a different realm.
That is more what I am thinking. ( but then I don't have as much as you to think with :) )

That also is a possibility! One that occurred to me a long time ago as well. Truth is, it is something that we in this life just don't know and as I have slowed down in my years, I no longer care enough to try and solve the "mystery". Something which I know you also understand.

 

[Richard_oti]

According to God's word there will be no night, but everlasting day, no shadow of turning. But I would not consider it static, and would not discount the idea of image, for Christ was the image of God the Father and became glorious even in the sight of men.

Rev 21:23 And the city hath no need of the sun...

 

[Helen]

I hear you. And know, that I ran the race with all that I had. I am a little slower nowadays though. You are always free to point things out to me!

2Ti 2:5 And if also a man contend in the games, he is not crowned, except he have contended lawfully.

We all need each other as we 'run' slowly...( can you beat my 75 years? :) )

I am totally convinced that our God looks at the heart...he looks and cares if we have passion enough, love enough, for He Himself as our goal...I believe God's is wonderful presence is what gets us there...
Like Moses when he said to God.." If thy presence go not with us, take us not up hence." Moses knew the value...he knew that it was everything.
All I am saying is, don't lets settle for less than God's best.

Bless you ..H

 

[Helen]

I hear you. And know, that I ran the race with all that I had. I am a little slower nowadays though. You are always free to point things out to me!

2Ti 2:5 And if also a man contend in the games, he is not crowned, except he have contended lawfully.

You are jesting Richard...I just blather...and hope it finds a home somewhere.
I doubt I could ever point anything worth while out to anyone!
I just enjoy the fellowship on this Site. The older I get the more time I have to 'play' here with everyone...

 

[Richard_oti]

We all need each other as we 'run' slowly...( can you beat my 75 years? :) )

I am totally convinced that our God looks at the heart...he looks and cares if we have passion enough, love enough, for He Himself as our goal...I believe God's is wonderful presence is what gets us there...
Like Moses when he said to God.." If thy presence go not with us, take us not up hence." Moses knew the value...he knew that it was everything.
All I am saying is, don't lets settle for less than God's best.

Bless you ..H

No, can't beat you and likely I won't. Only a few more years until my families history of dementia catches up to me.

I do hear you though, and I appreciate your words.

I don't know if "God" has a retirement plan here in this life, but I am no longer of the desire to:

Jud 1:3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

As I once did.

 

[Richard_oti]

You are jesting Richard...I just blather...and hope it finds a home somewhere.
I doubt I could ever point anything worth while out to anyone!
I just enjoy the fellowship on this Site. The older I get the more time I have to 'play' here with everyone...

Your "blather" is better than a lot that I have heard. And I know and have seen, that it indeed finds a home. Yeah, I am here "playing" rather than "contending" amoung the "cults" as I once did. It was good, but I no longer have the energy to engage in such.

 

[Helen]

I am here "playing" rather than "contending" amoung the "cults" as I once did. It was good, but I no longer have the energy to engage in such.

Well for me, this place is much better for having your presence here with us.
It is all about "spiritual atmosphere" :)
I should also learn to 'pick my battles' better than I do...it can cause sidetracking from the more important things...
I had two brothers, no sisters, so I was a bit of a scrapper with them as a kid..I just can't keep my nose out of trouble some days...
Maybe I will turn over a new left in the New Year..( not that I really find it works! LOL )

 

[Helen]

No, can't beat you and likely I won't. Only a few more years until my families history of dementia catches up to me.

Jud 1:3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

As I once did.

BTW I sent you an INBOX ...just a lot of me 'blathering on'...as usual.

 

[mjrhealth]

Some say- " I am a wretched person saved by grace"
Others will say:- "I am called, chosen, set free , and headed towards Home"

and some will say, called and chosen wretched man that I am, saved by grace lest one should boast.

 

[Richard_oti]

BTW I sent you an INBOX ...just a lot of me 'blathering on'...as usual.

Got it and replied. Thank you.

 

[Richard_oti]

Well for me, this place is much better for having your presence here with us.
It is all about "spiritual atmosphere" :)
I should also learn to 'pick my battles' better than I do...it can cause sidetracking from the more important things...
I had two brothers, no sisters, so I was a bit of a scrapper with them as a kid..I just can't keep my nose out of trouble some days...
Maybe I will turn over a new left in the New Year..( not that I really find it works! LOL )

<chuckle> What fun would life be if we didn't manage to get ourselves in trouble now and again.

I won't hold my breath for the New Year. Never worked for me either.

 

[Richard_oti]

ha ya, it's possible "surrounded by a cloud of witnesses" might be more literal than we realize huh

Indeed.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, yes I suppose that those who take people's free will or find ways to overcome people's free will through various methods, do view those people as slaves.

doesn't the Book even?

@bbyrd009 I'm not referring to that kind of slavery.

i kind of got lost here, or it's still too early or something, could you rephrase this ty

 

[bbyrd009]

And of course I guess I don't have to say that this is a very bad thing to be tampering with people's minds that way and against their will.

not even sure these could be said to have free will, i mean if you are asleep is your will even functioning, etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

That also is a possibility! One that occurred to me a long time ago as well. Truth is, it is something that we in this life just don't know and as I have slowed down in my years, I no longer care enough to try and solve the "mystery". Something which I know you also understand.

dunno why this grabbed me, but contemplate the impact you going back 100 years or so and describing your life today to an ancestor would have on them. Assuming that they did not just kill you outright of course, after you told it.