Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?

[Mikey-for-sure]

so show us one passage where it says Judas was born again?

You are right! Having been chosen by the Messiah , an apostle fell from Grace .

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Judas had the chops to invoke your OSAS. Why does the Scripture say otherwise. So when you say you are born again, where is your name written? If Grace can only be given by God then how can your erstwhile faith mean anything. Absolutely hubris. Your faith is dead.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are right! Having been chosen by the Messiah , an apostle fell from Grace .

Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Judas had the chops to invoke your OSAS. Why does the Scripture say otherwise. So when you say you are born again, where is your name written? If Grace can only be given by God then how can your erstwhile faith mean anything. Absolutely hubris. Your faith is dead.

Actually Judas was a thief, and did not follow Jesus because he thought he was great, but because he thought Jesus would save them from Rome. the second he realized he was nto going to do that He left ...He was a theif. he stole from them continually.

I find it amazing you NOSAS people talk about living in sin and not being saved, then you use a person who continued to live in sin, showed no proof of repentance, and was called an unbeliever by Jesus himself in John 6 to prove OSAS is a lie..

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Well I don't think the devil or man can snatch people out of God's hand. But I do believe they can leave willingly.

1) Those who truly believe should really use 'the sound mind' God gives one, before making such a
statement...:

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of​

a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)​

​

2)...Searching further into All The Scriptures Reveals That 'such an one' has "A New Owner"
Who Really 'needs to be consulted First' Before believing they can 'just willingly leave', eh?...:

a) "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that The Spirit of God Dwelleth in you?"​

(1 Corinthians 3:16)​

​

b) "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of The Holy Ghost Which is in you,​

which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" (1 Corinthians 6:19)​

​

3) ...And even Further, 'such an one' should consider Rule # 5 of Bible study Rules, and

would find about 12-Dozen Passages [ All The Counsel of God! ] Confirming ​

'God's Eternal Salvation', for All 'True believers' in His All-Sufficient BLOOD!:​

​

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

Those without The New Owner, The Spirit Of God, and a sound mind, Cannot
possibly understand These Spiritual Teachings of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)

'Such ones as these' may hear, not truly believe [ 'with All the heart!' ],
and "depart willingly, still belonging to themSELVES," Correct?

Amen.

 

[dev553344]

Worth discussing.
Scripture in question pasted below.
So, does this mean that the Good Shepherd will NOT leave the ninety-nine to go after the one who wandered away?
I hope not. But look what this says. "It is impossible for those... who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance."
These two scriptures are in conflict. For those who claim this cannot be, which one will you delete?

Hebrews 6:4-6 NIV
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance.
To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again
and subjecting him to public disgrace.

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 18:12-14 NIV
“What do you think? If a man owns a hundred sheep, and one of them wanders away,
will he not leave the ninety-nine on the hills and go to look for the one that wandered off?
13 And if he finds it, truly I tell you, he is happier about that one sheep than about the ninety-nine that did not wander off.
14 In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should perish.

While I do believe people that have stumbled can be brought back, I also believe people can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God. Think of Satan and his angels, in heaven with God and rebelled and thrown out, constantly accusing the saints of evil.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

While I do believe people that have stumbled can be brought back, I also believe people can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God. Think of Satan and his angels, in heaven with God and rebelled and thrown out, constantly accusing the saints of evil.

just because they taste it does not mean they swallowed it.

 

[dev553344]

1) Those who truly believe should really use 'the sound mind' God gives one, before making such a
statement...:

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of​

a sound mind." (2 Timothy 1:7)​

​

2)...Searching further into All The Scriptures Reveals That 'such an one' has "A New Owner"
Who Really 'needs to be consulted First' Before believing they can 'just willingly leave', eh?...:

a) "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that The Spirit of God Dwelleth in you?"​

(1 Corinthians 3:16)​

​

b) "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of The Holy Ghost Which is in you,​

which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?" (1 Corinthians 6:19)​

​

3) ...And even Further, 'such an one' should consider Rule # 5 of Bible study Rules, and

would find about 12-Dozen Passages [ All The Counsel of God! ] Confirming ​

'God's Eternal Salvation', for All 'True believers' in His All-Sufficient BLOOD!:​

​

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+ Update
+
God's Eternal Assurance
+
God's Eternal Life Insurance

Conclusion:

Those without The New Owner, The Spirit Of God, and a sound mind, Cannot
possibly understand These Spiritual Teachings of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)

'Such ones as these' may hear, not truly believe [ 'with All the heart!' ],
and "depart willingly, still belonging to themSELVES," Correct?

Amen.

You sound like you're arguing against free will? People are free to choose whatever they desire. Some perhaps fall away from riches or power. Some other from hardships. The bible clearly spells out the parable of the sower Matthew 13:3-9.

 

[marks]

At the end of the debate, either one will hold that every word of Scripture is true, or is not. I'm on the side of "is true".

Here are two passages which clearly and distinctly tell us that those who have been born again (now) will be saved and with Jesus when we see Him, specifically when He appears in glory.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

There is so much more that can be brought out to show that when we are reborn, this doesn't "undo". But the simplicity of God is that He is True, and every word He speaks is True.

These passages are simply stated. Do you believe there is an issue with translation? Let's look at it. But if these are correctly translated, then that's what they say.

And in Fact, no writing from God of any kind will be in contradiction. There is no, "It doesn't really mean that because of this other verse". That's using Scripture in an attempt to negate Scripture.

If there appears to you to be a contradiction, post the passage that you think contradicts it, and how these passages don't actually mean what they say. So we're back to the translation. Even still, post the passage, and let's find the meanings that harmonize with everything, and preserve the meaning of ever part.

If this is what they really say, Why are there those who don't want to believe them?

Much love!

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Actually Judas was a thief, and did not follow Jesus because he thought he was great, but because he thought Jesus would save them from Rome. the second he realized he was nto going to do that He left ...He was a theif. he stole from them continually.

I find it amazing you NOSAS people talk about living in sin and not being saved, then you use a person who continued to live in sin, showed no proof of repentance, and was called an unbeliever by Jesus himself in John 6 to prove OSAS is a lie..

How can you say this about an apostle? Oh right because it's in the bible

You quoted John 6. Here is a head scratcher?
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

OSAS is only meant for the born-again but not the chosen. So pray tell how are you born again if you weren't necessarily chosen? Is this a woke exercise of self identification?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Actually Judas was a thief, and did not follow Jesus because he thought he was great, but because he thought Jesus would save them from Rome. the second he realized he was nto going to do that He left ...He was a theif. he stole from them continually.

I find it amazing you NOSAS people talk about living in sin and not being saved, then you use a person who continued to live in sin, showed no proof of repentance, and was called an unbeliever by Jesus himself in John 6 to prove OSAS is a lie..

Consider, you read their claims that arrive from the intellect of a sinners natural mind. Unable to comprehend the things of God. This means, they cannot see what the Bible teaches.

They reason from the heart and mind of death. Dead in their sins.

God's righteous truth is, as the passage warns us, and they prove, foolishness to them.

 

[St. SteVen]

While I do believe people that have stumbled can be brought back, I also believe people can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God. Think of Satan and his angels, in heaven with God and rebelled and thrown out, constantly accusing the saints of evil.

Do you believe that revenge is a sin?

 

[ScottA]

I know some people like to pass judgments on others that confess to be sinners. This thread is not about that. And I often wonder why people fight the OSAS idea. I also don't believe in OSAS, but I believe in a version that allows for God to save people if he desires.

John 10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

I think no one, the devil or man, can snatch God's people out of his hand. But they can reject God by free choice. Let's pray for the sinners that they are given power to overcome sin as well. As God only promotes righteousness in his word.

I'm reminded of the words of Jesus regarding people that would be jealous of God saving sinners:

Luke 18:9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Why do some people not like the idea of OSAS?​

Because they prefer their own understanding, and have rejected the fact that without question destructive doctrines have entered into the church just as it was foretold.

 

[dev553344]

Do you believe that revenge is a sin?

This thread is about OSAS and why people reject it. Does your question relate to that? If so please elaborate what you're getting at.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How can you say this about an apostle? Oh right because it's in the bible

You quoted John 6. Here is a head scratcher?
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

OSAS is only meant for the born-again but not the chosen. So pray tell how are you born again if you weren't necessarily chosen? Is this a woke exercise of self identification?

So Judas was an apostle..

He chose them to follow him.. One of them was the devil.. I guess according to you the devil is saved

 

[St. SteVen]

dev553344 said:
While I do believe people that have stumbled can be brought back, I also believe people can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God. Think of Satan and his angels, in heaven with God and rebelled and thrown out, constantly accusing the saints of evil.

Do you believe that revenge is a sin?

My question was in response to your statement about Satan and his angels.
Relating them to people who "can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God".

This thread is about OSAS and why people reject it. Does your question relate to that? If so please elaborate what you're getting at.

You seem to think revenge is in order for those who deny God. Do you believe that revenge is a sin?
If it's a sin for us, then it is a sin for God. Would God sin?

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What should God do with his enemies?
Does he hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself?

If incinerating your enemies is a moral act, then I should be able to do it.
But we know that revenge is a sin and God does not sin.

 

[BarneyFife]

If you did not confess Jesus as your Lord with your mouth and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead for your justification having turned away from your sin... they you have not been born again.

But isn't this just the same kind of ultra-literalism that causes people to cling to the eternal security doctrine? I think so.

Welcome to the forum, BTW!!

.

 

[dev553344]

dev553344 said:
While I do believe people that have stumbled can be brought back, I also believe people can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God. Think of Satan and his angels, in heaven with God and rebelled and thrown out, constantly accusing the saints of evil.

My question was in response to your statement about Satan and his angels.
Relating them to people who "can taste of the heavenly gifts and still deny God".

You seem to think revenge is in order for those who deny God. Do you believe that revenge is a sin?
If it's a sin for us, then it is a sin for God. Would God sin?

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What should God do with his enemies?
Does he hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself?

If incinerating your enemies is a moral act, then I should be able to do it.
But we know that revenge is a sin and God does not sin.

God's wrath is righteous and good. I do believe God pours out wrath at times as the bible clearly shows that from the flood to Moses and the Egyptians to Sodom and Gomorrah etc. Wrath is very similar to revenge, but I don't think you have pointed to revenge so much as wrath.

I wouldn't look at the above examples of destruction as wrath though. God protects the righteous from the wicked at times.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

 

[marks]

Does he hold us to a higher moral standard than he holds himself?

Apples and oranges.

Just think, you aren't allowed to do what courts do, does that mean courts are wrong to do so? No, only that they have an authority you don't have. When you lock someone up it's a criminal act. Not so for them.

Much love!

 

[BlessedPeace]

So Judas was an apostle..

He chose them to follow him.. One of them was the devil.. I guess according to you the devil is saved

That Greek word referring to Judas and given the context rightly translates to, a treacherous informer.

We might consider in that passage, given that proper translation, understanding, that Jesus chose Judas so to fulfill Jesus destiny.

Bible Gateway passage: John 6 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament

After this Jesus went to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (also called the Sea of Tiberias). A large crowd was following him because they saw the miraculous signs that he was performing on those who were sick. Jesus went up on the mountainside, and he sat down there with his disciples. (Now...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But isn't this just the same kind of ultra-literalism that causes people to cling to the eternal security doctrine? I think so.

Welcome to the forum, BTW!!

.

So having faith in the promise of God is a bad thing?

 

[BarneyFife]

So having faith in the promise of God is a bad thing?

Yes, having faith in the promise of God is a bad thing.



Happy?

.