Why Do You Believe....

[marks]

This is a great question and one I could never answer. Unfathomable!!! It is amazing how much He loves us. I would change it to a statement, tho.

What a Maker that has a will that involves caring about human behavior!

Thank you, Lord.

If you ever want an argument against evolution, look no further than man's conscience. It does not serve the man. It does not serve the society. At least, not the way these work now. My wife's cats show the kind of behavior that serves themselves!

It's not an evolutionalry result that a man would act out of some sense of higher interest to his own hurt, or to his tribe's hurt, but that's what the conscience of man does. So the question is, where did it come from? And why is it there? It wants to make us do what we call good. And why do we consider this good and that bad? It's good to give food to others, and bad to let them starve. Why?

Because we have a Maker that cares how we act.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

@Truth OT
I began my Christian journey being taught, raised, and educated in a church environment, so I can't remember ever not having "faith". But faith that a God exists is a very different ballgame from faith that the God you believe exists is a good God and cares intimately for your welfare, loves you unconditionally, and promises to supply your every need. I cannot imagine what it's like not having any faith whatsoever. I would imagine that when you look around the world at what is going on, and the direction is heading down, you would be more than a little concerned, even worried and perhaps fearful of the future, particularly for your grandchildren. That said, I'm with @marks in that prophecy is the real deal, and the great validator of biblical truth. I think though that all atheist would be better off not knowing what the future holds on store for this planet, as they're really is no escape except through faith.
KJV Hebrews 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The second part of my journey and learning experience, the part that went beyond the faith that God simply exists, but that He actually loves me and does me good, that began at age 23. I discovered then a spiritual realm that exists outside our physical world. The Bible, which I began to read as a young adult, explained somewhat of the nature of that spiritual realm, the rest came through experience. Genuine miracles and life experiences over 45 years has taught me that God does truly care, and is willing to provide for all our needs. And that faith, that day by day living trust, is continually growing.
And the promises of the Bible, when believed, further instill and strengthen faith when those promises are met.
BTW, prophecy is valid. It not only predicts what is the the future to us, but predicted what was in the future of the writer and had long since been fulfilled, and like the book of Daniel, continued to fulfill, as it's an explanation of history, not just for Daniels and Israel's immediate future, but the future from Daniels time to the coming of Christ.
To argue against that remarkable truth is a choice in denial.

 

[prism]

@Truth OT this Bud is for you...

351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus Christ

351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus Christ | New Testament Christians.Com

 

[Brakelite]

@Truth OT this Bud is for you...

351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus Christ

351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus Christ | New Testament Christians.Com

Interesting that your link seems to step away from the most incredible prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah in all of scripture... Daniel 9:25. I saw that Daniel 9:25 was noted, but the fulfillment claimed seems to bear little direct correlation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[prism]

Interesting that your link seems to step away from the most incredible prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah in all of scripture... Daniel 9:25. I saw that Daniel 9:25 was noted, but the fulfillment claimed seems to bear little direct correlation. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The list isn’t designed to be exhaustive but sufficient.
Daniel 9:25, although applicable, I don’t believe is appropriate for one with little exposure to the Scriptures. It would take a pre knowledge of the history of Israel.

 

[Truth OT]

look at Obadiah.

book, chapter, and verses, please.

 

[Truth OT]

Let's say I quote the Bible to you, let's say it's actually God's Word, even so, you have to choose to believe.

Stop with the choosing angle. It's not about wanting or not wanting something to be true. It is about demonstrating what is true regardless of what people desire to be true. Speaking specifically for myself, I neither want to believe or don't want to believe. There is no bias towards belief preference with me, I just want to see evidence for what is most probable and likely true. My belief will be shaped by the evidence, not my preference.

 

[Truth OT]

351 Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus Christ

We can all post links someone else opines on. I'm asking YOU as an individual for your scriptural validating texts. Can you provide specific book, chapter, and verse that's meaningful to you in showing fulfilled prophecy?

365 Prophecies about Jesus

Interesting that your link seems to step away from the most incredible prophecies regarding the coming of Messiah in all of scripture... Daniel 9:25.

I like this. Daniel 2, 7 and 9 can be a focus.

 

[marks]

book, chapter, and verses, please.

Obadiah, there's only one chapter, and it's all that topic.

Like I said, you'll have to do the homework, if you care to actually know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

My belief will be shaped by the evidence, not my preference.

So you say, but I'm seeing something different. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe I'm not.

The Bible, which I believe to be true, states that the reason people don't come to Jesus is not because they lack evidence, but because they know they are in the wrong. So they want to stay hidden.

You say it's lack of evidence, and Jesus says it's the desire to hide.

Much love!

 

[Truth OT]

You say it's lack of evidence, and Jesus says it's the desire to hide.

Again, Jesus said no such thing. Men who CLAIM to speak for God said these things. Lest we forget, it is the credibility of THOSE men in question here.

look at Obadiah. But you'll need to do the work. It tells you who the terrorists around Israel are, and where they are, correctly. If you research the people and place names, that's what you'll find.

It seems to parallel greatly with Jeremiah 49:7-22 and it has lots of ambiguity. You have Edom (Esua's descendants apparently) being judged for their acts against Israel (Jacob). Those seem to be the actors here. As far as the fulfillment, ?????

 

[marks]

Again, Jesus said no such thing. Men who CLAIM to speak for God said these things. Lest we forget, it is the credibility of THOSE men in question here.

John 3:18-21 KJV
18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

If you believe, you are not condemned, but if you don't believe, you are already condemned. And what is this condemnation? Light has come, but men loved darkness . . . to hide in.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It seems to parallel greatly with Jeremiah 49:7-22 and it has lots of ambiguity. You have Edom (Esua's descendants apparently) being judged for their acts against Israel (Jacob). Those seem to be the actors here. As far as the fulfillment, ?????

Do the work. Trace the names, the historical homelands, who these peoples are, where these places are, and if you do it, you'll see it, and if you would rather just deride it, you don't have to do it.

I'm already getting a strong impression from you that you aren't really seeking here. I've got better things to do.

Much love!

 

[prism]

We can all post links someone else opines on. I'm asking YOU as an individual for your scriptural validating texts. Can you provide specific book, chapter, and verse that's meaningful to you in showing fulfilled prophecy?

365 Prophecies about Jesus

God's Word is the issue and your soul is at stake. It makes no difference what a prophetic fulfillment means to me. The fact that hundreds of prophecies from the OT were fulfilled in the NT should give you pause in the agnostic direction you are traveling.

 

[Truth OT]

God's Word is the issue and your soul is at stake.

Not quite. The issue is ACTUALLY whether or not the Bible IS God's Word. My contention is that it is NOT and I am asking those who assert that it is to back that assertion with facts.

The fact that hundreds of prophecies from the OT were fulfilled in the NT should give you pause in the agnostic direction you are traveling.

But what prophecies were ACTUALLY fulfilled? Much of what is claimed is ambiguous and non-specific. I see Daniel 2, 7, and 9 as the only potential prophecies in the OT that COULD qualify. So I am willing to hear the case for those and examine them further to see what them being prophetic could imply.

 

[marks]

God's Word is the issue and your soul is at stake. It makes no difference what a prophetic fulfillment means to me. The fact that hundreds of prophecies from the OT were fulfilled in the NT should give you pause in the agnostic direction you are traveling.

We will all be held accountable for what we choose, and God's not going to be playing the games people play here. It's going to be real, and true, and absolute.

Much love!

 

[Brakelite]

We will all be held accountable for what we choose, and God's not going to be playing the games people play here. It's going to be real, and true, and absolute.

Much love!

What we sometimes lose sight of is the fact that when we don't believe what God says, we are accusing Him of lying.

 

[Brakelite]

I like this. Daniel 2, 7 and 9 can be a focus.

And it is the focus for many discussions on every forum you could visit. And prophecy can be affirming for the Christian, but there are numerous different view points on what events, if any, the prophecies apply to. So with the variety of opinion available, prophecy may not be so affirming or convincing for the non believer.
For example. The futurist will show you a raft of prophecy and tell you, all this is going to take place soon. Well, that's not going to convince anyone as there's no real discernible evidence for it. One can point to various events and claim that the politics etc is trending in a certain direction, or point to the establishment of the nation of Israel in 1948 and claim that as a sign of the end, which out may well be but there is no specific prophecy to lay hold of that definitively affirms that interpretation.
Then there's preterism, and they claim that the second coming too place a long time ago, and most if not all prophecy has been fulfilled in the first century. There are so many holes in that idea I could reverse a truck and trailer through them without touching the sides.
But what I would share with a non believer is convincing, but it takes patience and time. And you need to understand certain ground rules and trust those rules all the way to the end. It's so very easy to get half way and jump onto some end time band wagon which operates on personal presuppositions, simply because they are popular and look good. The most important premise in understanding scripture, particularly prophecy, is that the Bible interprets itself. It gives a symbol, explains the meaning of the symbol elsewhere, and so you use that meaning everywhere. It's simple. But not many do that.

 

[Brakelite]

The list isn’t designed to be exhaustive but sufficient.
Daniel 9:25, although applicable, I don’t believe is appropriate for one with little exposure to the Scriptures. It would take a pre knowledge of the history of Israel.

It doesn't take much to explain the 70 weeks.... Where they started... Where they finished... And the waypoint at the 62 week mark. An explanation of history and the application to the scripture.

 

[Truth OT]

And it is the focus for many discussions on every forum you could visit. And prophecy can be affirming for the Christian, but there are numerous different view points on what events, if any, the prophecies apply to. So with the variety of opinion available, prophecy may not be so affirming or convincing for the non believer.

There lies the problem. A lack of specifics and definitive declarations in prophetic passages makes it difficulty to use many as foundational pillars. With Daniel, there are divisions even amongst believers whether they be Jews that apply the prophecy to Israel, premillennial Christian sects that place gaps between weeks 69 and 70, amillennial camps like I was taught in the Church of Christ, as well as the preterists you mentioned who promote the idea of all things fulfilled.