Why I could personally never chose to be Catholic

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Helen

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No, BG - the Catholic New Testament doesn't say "different" things than Protestant Bibles.

We read in Acts 1:14 that the 120, including the Apostles and Mary, "ALL joined together CONSTANTLY in prayer."
It is implied and believed that they were ALL there at Pentecost.

Acts 2 begins with, "When the day of Pentecost came, THEY WERE ALL TOGETHER in one place."
As I showed you - this even mirrors the dedication of Solomon's Temple where 120 priests and the Ark of the Covenant were present and the Spirit of God came down as FIRE.

It's your choice not to accept the OT type and NY fulfillment that this represents - but the Scriptural evidence is ALL over it . . .

Sorry...I can see where we differ in this.
You wrote < But..Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3). >

You see I don't believe that Mary was the Ark of the New Covenant.
That is our difference.
I believe just as Noah's ark represented Jesus Christ in the OT, and The Ark within the Holy of Holies of Moses Tabernacle , represented Jesus Christ.
Then to me...Jesus Christ is the 'Ark of the New Covenant'...also. Not Mary.
But I can see where she would 'fit' the pattern as she carried the "Ark" within her for 9 months.

Bless you...H
 

BreadOfLife

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Sorry...I can see where we differ in this.
You wrote < But..Mary, the Mother of Jesus and the Ark of the NEW Covenant was also present while the Holy Spirit came down as tongues of fire (Acts 2:3). >

You see I don't believe that Mary was the Ark of the New Covenant.
That is our difference.
I believe just as Noah's ark represented Jesus Christ in the OT, and The Ark within the Holy of Holies of Moses Tabernacle , represented Jesus Christ.
Then to me...Jesus Christ is the 'Ark of the New Covenant'...also. Not Mary.
But I can see where she would 'fit' the pattern as she carried the "Ark" within her for 9 months.

Bless you...H
In Rev. 11:19, we see the Ark in Heaven. In the very next verse - that Ark is described as a WOMAN who gives birth to Christ.

The Ark didn't represent Christ. What was IN the Ark represented Him:
the Word of God (Tablets)
The Bread from Heaven (Manna)
The Power of God (Moses' staff)

the Ark was simply the purified vessel that carried these symbols of God.
 
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Helen

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In Rev. 11:19, we see the Ark in Heaven. In the very next verse - that Ark is described as a WOMAN who gives birth to Christ.

The Ark didn't represent Christ. What was IN the Ark represented Him:
the Word of God (Tablets)
The Bread from Heaven (Manna)
The Power of God (Moses' staff)

the Ark was simply the purified vessel that carried these symbols of God.

Okay...yes got it. I can see your types there. I will have to 'chew' on it a bit...
........................thumbs_up8.gif
 
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Grams

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Things are now different we are now all Gentiles .............. GOD gave us JESUS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

EPH:2
7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

mjrhealth

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Well you see BOL its like, this oh, and I wont use big bold letters so i look bigger than you,

See ill have to explain "revelation" to you which is what Christ is building His church on, but if I do you will,
1. Tell me im an idiot, a fool, that I dont know scripture and i should probably go back to primary school, or
2. Ill say its a waste of time, in which case all of number 1 comes into play but than you will add, "I thought So'

Save you teh trouble. You have chosen whom you serve and only an act of God will ever change you.

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
 

Webers_Home

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Luke 2:8-11 . . And in the same region there were some shepherds staying
out in the fields, and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel
of The Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of The Lord shone
around them; and they were terribly frightened.

. . . And the angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you
good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the
city of David there has been born for you a savior, who is Christ the Lord.

The Greek word for "savior" in that verse is soter (so-tare') which means: a
rescuer.

Rescuers typically help people who are in grave distress and/or imminent
danger of death and/or serious injury, and helpless to do anything about it;
e.g. Red Cross, Firemen, Emergency Medical teams, snow patrols, mountain
units, and the Coast Guard and National Guard.

Wouldn't it be awful if those agencies refused to assist desperate folk until
they first proved themselves deserving? Well lucky for everyone that those
agencies work on the basis of need rather than merit or many of us would
end up thrown back to the wolves.

I think quite a few people are under the impression that Christ is some sort
of probation officer; viz: if people "endure to the end" as they say; then he
grants them a clearance for heaven. But God forbid they should fail to
satisfy the conditions of their probation, because then they're out the door.

Probation can be likened to a sword of Damocles hanging over people's
heads by a slender thread easily broken by conduct unbecoming. How dare
the angel of Luke 2:8-11 describe his announcement as "good news of great
joy" if probation were actually what's meant by sozo instead of rescue.

On the other hand; if Christ is in the business of rescuing people from the
wrath of God in accordance with the humane principles underlying normal
emergency services; then yes, I fully agree with the angel that the birth of
Christ is something to get excited about.

/
 

bbyrd009

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Okay...yes got it. I can see your types there. I will have to 'chew' on it a bit...
........................View attachment 1845
prolly best perceived as the Church, not Mary
"and she delivered before she was in labor," etc illuminates this concept.

not denying any possible benefit of Deifying Mary, understand, but Catholicism just is not Protestantism.
"and your desire will be for your husband" should even be reflected upon here, imo
define Mary's office and she will become clear, i think
what is Mary's Office?
 
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BreadOfLife

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Well you see BOL its like, this oh, and I wont use big bold letters so i look bigger than you,

See ill have to explain "revelation" to you which is what Christ is building His church on, but if I do you will,
1. Tell me im an idiot, a fool, that I dont know scripture and i should probably go back to primary school, or
2. Ill say its a waste of time, in which case all of number 1 comes into play but than you will add, "I thought So'

Save you teh trouble. You have chosen whom you serve and only an act of God will ever change you.

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
How old are you, mjr?
Judging by your emotional and immature writing style - I'd say you're about 15 or 16 at the oldedst . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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prolly best perceived as the Church, not Mary
"and she delivered before she was in labor," etc illuminates this concept.

not denying any possible benefit of Deifying Mary, understand, but Catholicism just is not Protestantism.
"and your desire will be for your husband" should even be reflected upon here, imo
define Mary's office and she will become clear, i think
what is Mary's Office?
Soooo, you think that the Church is the Ark of the Covenant in Heaven?
Rev. 11:19 states very clearly that this is what is being spoken of in Rev. 12:1.

Finally - there is absolutely a problem with deifying Mary or anybody else other than God.
 

Marymog

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Reasons why I could personally never chose to be Catholic:
Baptist prospective

1st of all, comparing spiritual things with spiritual, I feel that as old as the Roman Catholic Church is; it still has not worked out it's kinks.
- 1 Corinthians 2:13 (KJV Bible)

I feel like if I'm going to partake congregationally to worship, it is a absolute must that i am 100% comfortable with the Church and its Doctrines, all elements combined.
- Galatians 1:6-7 (of Galatians 1:1-12) (KJV Bible)

It is well known most Baptist have issues with Catholicism because of the Catholic claim of: transubstantiation. Within the ritual of a catholic mass, the pope holds a piece of bread, turns his back, and while his back is turned. Proclaims that it "literally" turns into the physical flesh of Christ.

3rdly, Christ is the head of the Church, There is absolutely no need for a Pope. It is opposite of scriptural and from what Iv heard, Pagan derived.
- 1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV Bible)

God Bless you,
I have large hopes that you find a profitable King James Version Only proud and preaching Church near you & find the Bible way to Heaven.
Hi,

Why do you trust the men and the doctrines of the men who started The Baptist Church? Why aren't the men and the doctrines of the men of the Catholic Church just as valid?

Since the Baptist Church wasn't founded until 1600 years after the death of Christ, what took God so long to finally reveal to us the truth that transubstantiation wasn't biblical?

It is generally accepted that John Smyth started the Baptist church. Which Baptist church do you follow? His or one of the many breakaway Baptist? How do you know which one finally got it 'right'??

Respectfully, Mary
 

BreadOfLife

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ha well i think we disagree on the definitions of at least three of those terms lol, so...
Is it that you can't answer my question or that you're afraid to?
Do you think that it is the Church that is being spoken about in Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1?

Just give me your opinion and a reason for it.
 

tabletalk

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there is nothing to worry about since Catholics, themselves, did not choose to be Catholics, they were chosen - imho - twinc

That makes you a Catholic Calvinist...predetermination, I love it!
 

aspen

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Here’s a frustrating article by a Catholic website, which makes me cringe and understand completely why some Christians would not choose to be Catholic.

3 Powerful sacramentals to have in your car

Sacramentals should NEVER be described as invoking God or ‘calling down God’s power’ - well, unless you are a witch....

Oh the superstition ......oh the humanity!
 
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mjrhealth

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How old are you, mjr?
Judging by your emotional and immature writing style - I'd say you're about 15 or 16 at the oldedst . . .
so predictable, hate the truth kill the messenger, its a constant with you,

God bless
 

bbyrd009

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pot/kettle, seems to me bro
Is it that you can't answer my question or that you're afraid to?
Do you think that it is the Church that is being spoken about in Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1?

Just give me your opinion and a reason for it.
i'm curious BoL, do you ever pray "Holy Mary, mother of God...?"
 

Webers_Home

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POSIT: The Hail Mary (a.k.a. Ave Maria) is a biblical prayer. God gave it to
us. It's in the Bible in black and white.


RESPONSE: Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the
decade of the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the
jungle and tally the number of VC dead so that high command could
evaluate the effectiveness of heavy bombing runs.

The enemy's bodies were often ripped to pieces making the dead difficult to
count; so what the guys did was scrounge up enough body parts to
assemble a John Doe; then they could enter the man they assembled into
the log as a dead soldier. That came to be known as a kick-count.

What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing
together excerpts; in effect, scrounging up a kick-count prayer.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible
prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of
years.

Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary.

Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).

"full of grace" is fabricated.

"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to
have been fabricated by the Church itself.

Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed
from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the
Bible; viz: rather than God-given, it's a man-made supplication concocted
from plagiarized excerpts; with an ending invocation composed entirely from
somebody's imagination.

Q: What's so bad about a prayer like the Hail Mary?

A: Well; for starters, it's impersonal; viz: it's a scripted performance; thus it
fails to comply with a very straight forward command to pray from the heart.

Heb 4:15-16 . . For we do not have a high priest who is unable to
sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in
every way, yet without sin. So let us confidently approach the throne of
grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which
means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the lines of the Hail Mary is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor
out-spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than mindlessly
reading from a siddur like one of those Jews bobbing back and forth at the
Wailing Wall.

When speaking to God via the priest spoken of in Heb 4:15-16, get down to
business and tell Him exactly what's on your mind instead of wasting God's
time and insulting His intelligence like one of those mindless robocallers that
annoy everybody to no end with their pre-recorded messages.

So then, here's my recommendation.

Christ left behind no recorded instructions to contact his mom. So then, just
to be on the safe side, and to avoid a crisis of conscience, leave off on the
practice. Since it's not required; then don't.

/
 
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BreadOfLife

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pot/kettle, seems to me bro
Not at all because I answer EVERYTHING people here ask of me.
I don't hide and I don't dodge like you people do.
pot/kettle, seems to me bro
i'm curious BoL, do you ever pray "Holy Mary, mother of God...?"
Once again - you're dodging the question.
I'll ask you again:
Do you think that it is the Church that is being spoken about in Rev. 11:19 and Rev. 12:1?
 

BreadOfLife

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POSIT: The Hail Mary (a.k.a. Ave Maria) is a biblical prayer. God gave it to
us. It's in the Bible in black and white.


RESPONSE: Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the
decade of the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the
jungle and tally the number of VC dead so that high command could
evaluate the effectiveness of heavy bombing runs.

The enemy's bodies were often ripped to pieces making the dead difficult to
count; so what the guys did was scrounge up enough body parts to
assemble a John Doe; then they could enter the man they assembled into
the log as a dead soldier. That came to be known as a kick-count.

What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing
together excerpts; in effect, scrounging up a kick-count prayer.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible
prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of
years.

Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary.

Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).

"full of grace" is fabricated.

"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to
have been fabricated by the Church itself.

Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed
from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the
Bible; viz: rather than God-given, it's a man-made supplication concocted
from plagiarized excerpts; with an ending invocation composed entirely from
somebody's imagination.

Q: What's so bad about a prayer like the Hail Mary?

A: Well; for starters, it's impersonal; viz: it's a scripted performance; thus it
fails to comply with a very straight forward command to pray from the heart.

Heb 4:15-16 . . For we do not have a high priest who is unable to
sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in
every way, yet without sin. So let us confidently approach the throne of
grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which
means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the lines of the Hail Mary is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor
out-spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than mindlessly
reading from a siddur like one of those Jews bobbing back and forth at the
Wailing Wall.

When speaking to God via the priest spoken of in Heb 4:15-16, get down to
business and tell Him exactly what's on your mind instead of wasting God's
time and insulting His intelligence like one of those mindless robocallers that
annoy everybody to no end with their pre-recorded messages.

So then, here's my recommendation.

Christ left behind no recorded instructions to contact his mom. So then, just
to be on the safe side, and to avoid a crisis of conscience, leave off on the
practice. Since it's not required; then don't./
Another asinine, anti-Catholic post . . .
Soooooo your logic is that when we recite the Lord's Prayer - we're "plagiarizing"??
What utter nonsense.

Finally - as to your ridiculous closing line - with that kind of convoluted logoc, we can say the same thing about a great MANY things.
Asking your family to pray for you isn't required - so why do it??
Eating spaghetti isn't required - so why do it??

POSIT: The Hail Mary (a.k.a. Ave Maria) is a biblical prayer. God gave it to
us. It's in the Bible in black and white.


RESPONSE: Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the
decade of the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the
jungle and tally the number of VC dead so that high command could
evaluate the effectiveness of heavy bombing runs.

The enemy's bodies were often ripped to pieces making the dead difficult to
count; so what the guys did was scrounge up enough body parts to
assemble a John Doe; then they could enter the man they assembled into
the log as a dead soldier. That came to be known as a kick-count.

What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing
together excerpts; in effect, scrounging up a kick-count prayer.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible
prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of
years.

Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary.

Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke
1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).

"full of grace" is fabricated.

"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting
at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's
greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our
death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to
have been fabricated by the Church itself.

Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed
from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the
Bible; viz: rather than God-given, it's a man-made supplication concocted
from plagiarized excerpts; with an ending invocation composed entirely from
somebody's imagination.

Q: What's so bad about a prayer like the Hail Mary?

A: Well; for starters, it's impersonal; viz: it's a scripted performance; thus it
fails to comply with a very straight forward command to pray from the heart.

Heb 4:15-16 . . For we do not have a high priest who is unable to
sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in
every way, yet without sin. So let us confidently approach the throne of
grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which
means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the lines of the Hail Mary is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor
out-spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than mindlessly
reading from a siddur like one of those Jews bobbing back and forth at the
Wailing Wall.

When speaking to God via the priest spoken of in Heb 4:15-16, get down to
business and tell Him exactly what's on your mind instead of wasting God's
time and insulting His intelligence like one of those mindless robocallers that
annoy everybody to no end with their pre-recorded messages.

So then, here's my recommendation.

Christ left behind no recorded instructions to contact his mom. So then, just
to be on the safe side, and to avoid a crisis of conscience, leave off on the
practice.
Since it's not required; then don't./
Another asinine, anti-Catholic post . . .
Soooooo your logic is that when we recite the Lord's Prayer - we're "plagiarizing"??
What utter nonsense.

Finally - as to your ridiculous closing line - with that kind of convoluted logoc, we can say the same thing about a great MANY things.
Asking your family to pray for you isn't required - so why do it??
Helping your wife find her car keys isn't required - so why do it??
Eating spaghetti isn't required - so why do it??

What a complete failure to understand Scripture and prayer . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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so predictable, hate the truth kill the messenger, its a constant with you,

God bless
Well, you avoid giving answers to ALL questions and your writing style is very - shall we say, immature.
Sooooo, what?? 15? 16?