Why is God So Mean?

[Prentis]

Well, it's not really going anywhere and we've all stated our points... I guess that's it

Blessings guys

 

[Duckybill]

As Aspen and I finally agreed on, we have a different Jesus. Mine is the Jesus of the Bible. Who is your Jesus? An unknown spirit.

2 Corinthians 11:14 (ESV)
14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

 

[Duckybill]

The Bible is full of contradictions.

Lord have mercy!

 

[Rach1370]

Come on Rach... we have God telling people to kill their enemies in the old testament... and then we have Christ telling people to love their enemies in the New... you seriously gonna tell me those aren't two contradicting ideas?

You have scriptures saying an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth in the old testament and then you have Christ in the New telling us that we've heard an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth but instead to bless those that curse us and to do good to those that hate us ... you seriously gonna tell me those aren't two contradicting ideas?

You're not being real Rach... you're in denial...

I'm not in denial Robbie. I can see the vast differences between the OT and the NT...those differences are things I am thankful for, they've made it possible for me to have a direct relationship with God...for my soul to be redeemed. But they do not have to be contradictions. Surely you must acknowledge that God is so much more than we can comprehend...His attributes vast, many and complicated. Sometimes the things He tells us in scripture don't make much sense, first glance. But once we come to a deeper understanding, things mesh.
Take, for example God telling His people to go out and kill an entire people. These people were Israel's enemy, sure, but more importantly they were enemies of God...as is every person who is not safe in Jesus. The thing with this is, it has not changed. God will judge and kill His enemies, but since Jesus, He has pronounced that it will only come at the end. He no longer asks His people to be His hand of wrath...He is saving that for the end of this age. So yes, things have changed...but it is not a contradiction. Rebelling against God still carries the penalty of death. The contradiction would be if sinners got off free without Jesus.

The thing is for me... I have no problem with Christ not agreeing with the old... I don't believe in Jesus because the bible has no contradictions with Him... I believe Jesus because the Spirit has revealed to me that He is the Word of God... the perfect revelation of the Father... and as the Father commanded I hear Him alone... Moses and Elijah have vanished... and it's only Christ...

That's all great Robbie, but you need to realise something...the very God that is within you, that is within me...He wrote the Bible. Does the God you know, who lives in you...is He the kind of God who has contradictions? Because if the Bible does, so does God...the same God you know intimately. You know He doesn't...you know He is totally trust worthy. Well, so too is the book He wrote for us.

And then it's like Groundzero said in that other post about how it's OK that Solomon contradicted what Jesus made possible when those who had died did see the sun again when Solomon said that wouldn't happen because Solomon was speaking from a carnal mind... I mean isn't that a contradiction in itself? I mean if the whole bible is God's Word then how can anything in it be from a carnal mind when we know the carnal mind is at war with God? Yet even Paul Himself says in one of his letters that He's speaking as a man...

Sorry, must have missed that post...dunno what it's talking about, so I can't comment. But honestly...you bring me any 'contradiction' in scripture and I'll show you how it is not one.

So I disagree and here's the deal... I have no desire to defend religion... my only desire is to make Christ known... and even though I would maybe use the bible to do so... I don't need the bible to make Him known... because I know Him personally and if someone removes the book from my hand... they don't remove Christ from my heart... and I'm not going to deny the contradictions in the bible because once that person reads the bible for themselves and sees God in the old telling people to kill their enemies and Christ in the new telling people to love them... they're gonna look at me as someone who isn't trustworthy... because yes... that is a contradiction...

I totally agree...religion sucks. Big time. The only thing that matters, the only person that matters, is Jesus. I just can't understand how you can diss the Bible as much as you do, when the Bible is all about Jesus! Dude...it's HIS book! That's all it does, it tells us how much we need Him...and then it tells us how awesome He is, and then it tells us how we should live for Him.
As far as God the Father vs God the Son....you do realise that there are distinct personalities at work within the Trinity? God can be wrathful...He will be wrathful against His enemies. In fact the Bible tells us that when Jesus returns again, He won't be humble this time, He'll come to destroy His enemies. My point is this...God is not ALL love. He is perfect love, yes, but He has other attributes...and while they are perfect too, we do not want to be opposed to Him. When Jesus ushered in the new covenant, He made specific demands for us. We are to love. Other stuff too, but that's the basic command...love. It's not our job to be judge, jury or executioner. That's His job. And that's His right, as God and Lord of the universe. This is not a contradiction, it's His divine right. But what His right and even responsibility is, has nothing to do with what we are called to do. Not a contradiction...just a difference in job titles. Him..God, us...thankful servant.

I'd rather acknowledge those contradictions and help them to understand that we don't know God through the old dead covenant when men's hearts were hard... we know God through Christ alone... and it's only in Him alone that the veil is removed... and we can clearly see that God is love...

Again I would have to say that the big idea here is that things have changed, but they do not contradict. Read the story of Sodom again...it is usually held that 'an angel of the Lord' is just an angel, but whenever "The angel of the Lord" appears, it is Jesus Himself. He shows up all over the OT!! Jesus Himself is the one who came down to fry Sodom. He and God the Father are one, even though they are different. Really think this through Robbie. Just because the New covenant is here, does not mean the God of the OT has disappeared. It doesn't mean that Jesus didn't exist back then either. Even if you think some 'things' are contradictory, it doesn't change the fact that events did happen, in both old and new testaments, that would cancel out one of them. That just can't happen, so you have to realise that Jesus had a hand in 'unloving' destruction, and that the 'wrathful' Father had a hand in the command to love. It all has to fit, or none of it will.
I don't know if that makes sense...basically...you can't dismiss the old in light of the new without also saying that Jesus did not have a hand in the OT (which He did) and that the Father did not have a hand in the NT (which He did). The point here is that God has every right to demand the death of His enemies in the OT, but to tell us to love our enemies in the NT. It's a huge difference anyway. Read the OT..the 'enemies of God' were bad news...these people indulged in child sacrifice to pagan gods, in group rape etc. Now consider 'our enemies'. I think God is basically telling us we shouldn't call down God's wrath or pull out an uzi just because our neighbour steals our paper. Big difference in circumstances...big difference in what we have the right to expect or do...as opposed to God.

It all comes down to this Robbie...you trust the God living within you to lead and guide you without contradiction don't you? Well, the same God wrote the book you are dismissing, and just as you trust Him to lead you, so I trust Him to both lead me, and guide me through the very words He put on page. It's from exactly the same source, so as Christians, we trust and believe that it has the same honesty and reliability.

 

[Robbie]

Rach... like the religious spirit always does you're starting from the foundation that you must be right and then you interpret the scriptures to say whatever supports you being right... this is exactly what the Pharisees did...

But come on... Loving your enemies and killing your enemies isn't a contradiction? It's just things changing?That's exactly what I'm talking about... and you'll never be an effective witness if you can't live in the truth with people.

Like I said... I don't need you to convince me that there aren't contradictions in the bible because my faith is in Christ is not based on man proving the bible as infallible... my faith is in Christ and my belief in the testimonies to Jesus is based on God's Spirit in me testifying that these things are true... I can really care less about what man says.

I could care less if tomorrow the History Channel had a whole special about how the bible was made up by man... because Christ in me has already told me these things are true... and His witness is my authority... not mans...

I could also care less what Solomon says in the bible about the dead never seeing the sun again because I know thanks to Christ they have...

I could care less about the scriptures saying an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth because Christ told me to bless those who curse me...

I could care less about the scriptures talking about killing our enemies... because Christ told me to love my enemies...

So my faith is not in man testifying to the scriptures... my faith is in Christ... in God's Word in me... He is my foundation... and I give thanks for the written testimonies to Him and I love reading them... but they are not my foundation...

 

[calbhach]

I know this is a little bit late, but I have something I want to say in regards to the first post in this thread.

>>What I honestly have a hard time understanding is why it feels to me that God is hell-bent on sending me to hell?

Unfortunately, this is a feeling that a lot of people have. :\ I have problems with this sort of thing myself, really. Constant battling with the idea that God doesn’t love me for one reason or another. It isn’t true at all, though...God DOES love us. The only being that’s bent on sending us to hell is Satan. He wants to take as many of us down as he possibly can. We’re only called to do one thing...and that’s to believe in God. We may sin over and over again (and we do, of course), but if we’re saved, God will always forget those sins and we’ll have eternal life.

John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”
John 1:12 - But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

We must believe in God and that He allows everything to happen for a reason, though. And it does...God has a plan for our lives, even when things appear to be at their worst.

Jeremiah 29:11 - For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

>>You might think that I'm exaggerating when I make this statement, but I am by no means being overdramatic. I try very hard to believe that when these preachers say "God loves you but hates your sin," that they mean it. I try with everything within me to believe that these people really love me. But I have to be honest. I have never felt love coming from these preachers. I always feel that they are just saying what they have been taught to say, if they aren't just in it for the show. I do believe that some of them are genuine and sincere. But you can also be sincerely wrong.

It’s very true that preachers do say things like this that are uncaring and strictly “religious”, if that makes any sense. But again, these are the words of man, not the Words of God. Preachers proclaim the Word of God, though it’s often too harsh and overbearing. I’ve listened to people who preach like that before...and it’s not uplifting, nor does it make a person want to seek the Lord’s Will. One must always compare what they say to what God’s Word says, and make the decision of whether it’s correct or not through sincere thought, prayer, and study.

>>even all of these testimonies I have ben hearing over the years of people who died and went to hell, and were brought back to tell about it. I listen closely, and what I gather is that it is very hard to make it into Heaven. And I don;t undertand if God really wants people in Heaven, why He made it so hard to get in. It just doesn't seem right. It seems to me like He plays favorites. But why create people just to throw them in hell. It's almost like He enjoys it.

God doesn’t enjoy sending anyone to hell. God loves all of His people, and it makes him very sad to see the unsaved. It isn’t hard to “make it into Heaven” at all. All we must do is believe in Him. We must believe that He sent Jesus to die on the cross for us, and that he is a just God.

1 John 4:16 - So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
Romans 5:8 - But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

>>Even many preacher talk as if they're glad there is a hell and glad you're going. It's like if you don't live up to THEIR standard (personal hidden agenda), you can't do anything right, and for that you ARE going to hell.

If a preacher has a personal agenda, it’s probably because they aren’t truly walking in God’s Word. Again, this is the word of man, not the word of God.

Matthew 12:36 - I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak,

Scripture is the only place we can go to for absolute truth about God’s word.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:21 - For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

>>I also don;t understand why God is so hard on homosexuals when He created the very biology that made them that way. And don;t tell me that they weren't born that way, because I am one.

I know it’s hard to believe that people aren’t born with homosexual tendencies, but they aren’t. God created us inside everyone one of our mother’s wombs.

Psalm 139:13-16 - For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.

Genesis 2:7 - Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God does not create sin...rather, God allows choice. We have the choice to follow God, or follow the ways of the world.

John 14:15 - If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

And of course, we sin because of what happened in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve caused us to lose our spiritual bond to God. When they ate the forbidden fruit, that was a choice that God allowed them. But...Satan was the one who tempted Eve to do so. God never tempted man to do anything. It’s always Satan who brings us to do things wrong. We are born into a world of sin. Sin is a choice that man makes, but Satan leads us to. Because of this, Satan can also tempt homosexuality. It’s just like any other sin in our lives. Lust of any form or fashion, really. Cussing. Murder. It’s all caused by one thing; Satan’s temptations in our lives. That, of course, is why God sent Jesus to die for our sins...because there are just things that we can’t overcome on our own power.

Genesis 3 - 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You [1] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, [2] she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked. And they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loincloths.

>>Unless you have seen things through, of course, you cannot fully understand where I'm coming from, and most of this is just hot air to you. And this is another thing; Christians are poor listeners and bad at understanding. They just love to judge others so they can (secretly... and often unconsciously)feel better about themselves. I know this because I've spent my lifetime (29 years) around them. I've seen Christians of every kind, so I know what I'm talking about. But I would literally be here for a couple of days describing to you all of the contradictions I have observed throughout this exclusive belief system.

Though it’s true that Christians can be some of the most judgmental people around, I hope that I’m not coming off that way. :\ I do try to understand the issue at hand in a loving way...and in some ways, though I don’t have the same issue as you, I used to have issues with pornography and masturbation. I think that maybe in some ways there are a lot of similarities in the problems (being of sexual impurity, of course) and I want to be here to listen to you and help in any way that I can. God calls Christians to act in a loving manner, after all, and not to falsely judge.

To those on the forum who are being judgmental in an unloving way -

Matthew 7:1-5 - “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.”

In other words, you can’t judge someone’s way before you clean up your own life. :\ Please guys, try to refrain from comments like:

>>Isn't fire a homosexual? So Aspen, why do you have so many unChristian friends? "A friend of the world is the enemy of God."

>>Stop defending homosexuals Aspen. They are headed for Hell, with those who defend them.

>>YOU are the one supporting YOUR homosexual friends.

Etc. - How are these sorts of comments uplifting, loving and Christ-like? Jesus would never say those kinds of things...and as sons and daughters of Christ, He should be our main example. In real life, I know it’s hard to say the right thing all the time, but at the very least, online, we can take our time to think our what we’re going to say and then say what we’re going to say through the filter of love instead of what our gut-feeling tells us to say. :\ Remember guys -

Matthew 12:36 - I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak.

 

[Robbie]

I agree Calbhach...

I could picture a bunch of christians dragging fire7 to the feet of Jesus and saying he is deserving of condemnation and then Jesus protecting him from their condemnation the same way he did the woman caught in the act of adultery and then telling the christians that unless they're without sin they have no right to condemn anyone...

This is where christians tend to search for justification to their condemning attitudes by saying, "yeah but Jesus told the woman to go and sin no more" yeah... but before that He said, "Neither do I condemn you" and since we know Jesus is God's Word we know that was God Himself not condemning her... and second it wasn't the people who were also equally guilty who told her what to do... it was Christ... and in that same way it's up to Jesus the one Who is without sin to convict us of our sins... not those who aren't without sin...

 

[Duckybill]

Those who refuse to live by the Bible are rebels against God.

1 Samuel 15:23 (NKJV)
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king.

'Contradictions' are just an excuse to rebel against God.

 

[Rach1370]

Rach... like the religious spirit always does you're starting from the foundation that you must be right and then you interpret the scriptures to say whatever supports you being right... this is exactly what the Pharisees did...

But come on... Loving your enemies and killing your enemies isn't a contradiction? It's just things changing?That's exactly what I'm talking about... and you'll never be an effective witness if you can't live in the truth with people.

Like I said... I don't need you to convince me that there aren't contradictions in the bible because my faith is in Christ is not based on man proving the bible as infallible... my faith is in Christ and my belief in the testimonies to Jesus is based on God's Spirit in me testifying that these things are true... I can really care less about what man says.

I could care less if tomorrow the History Channel had a whole special about how the bible was made up by man... because Christ in me has already told me these things are true... and His witness is my authority... not mans...

I could also care less what Solomon says in the bible about the dead never seeing the sun again because I know thanks to Christ they have...

I could care less about the scriptures saying an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth because Christ told me to bless those who curse me...

I could care less about the scriptures talking about killing our enemies... because Christ told me to love my enemies...

So my faith is not in man testifying to the scriptures... my faith is in Christ... in God's Word in me... He is my foundation... and I give thanks for the written testimonies to Him and I love reading them... but they are not my foundation...

Okaaaay. I'm not sure you got my point.
But how about I make it a bit simpler?
You say you have God within you, and that He, with His teaching to your heart, is all you need...the bible can go jump for all you care.
Well, I too have the Holy Spirit within me. And God within me tells me, unequivocally, that the bible is a precious, reliable thing, and He steers me there daily. And once I'm reading it, the Spirit within me resonates with truth and joy over the words He Himself caused to be written. Because in the very action of reading the truth about Him, I'm giving glory to Him.
Yes, I'm coming from the position that I'm correct. And that assumption comes directly from the source that your assumption does. You can't tell me I'm an idiot and in denial when my beliefs and feeling come from the same source your defending.
That was my basic point. You can't say 'God within me is reliable, so that's all I care about'...because the God within you had the bible written. If He's reliable in you, He's reliable in scripture.
Just think for a second. You know your wife right...you trust her? Well, what if you found a letter she had written and in it she had said a lot of things that just contradicted what you knew about her. It would shake the very trust you had in her right? If you are sure of who she is, the answer comes down to two possibilities; either she didn't write it at all, or your understanding of the letter is in question. See, we know God had the Bible written for us. Why then, when we trust the Spirit living within us so very much, do we then think he's written something for us that just doesn't add up? The answer is that it does. He wrote it, and it does add up. We have to want to see what God has written to us, we have to seek it out, pray over it, study it. And do you know what I've found Robbie, in those passages that are most confusing? When the light of the truth regarding the passage hits me, it's especially freeing and wondrous. When the truth of it dawns on you, what God has truly meant to say by it, it's like a key in a lock. There's nothing like the feeling of God's truth bursting through your awareness!

 

[Robbie]

You're a liar... I never said "the bible could go take a jump for all I care"... so until you actually respond to the truth of what I say I'm over you as well as Ducky... I'm just gonna hide you guys... last thing I need is people manipulating, twisting, and making up things I never said and then responding to illusions, lies and false witnesses bared against me... not worth my time or my energy... so I'm done with the both of you...

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

If Christ is in you He will show you who is leading you astray... and yes... He won't contradict Himself... so you can use the written testimonies to Him as tools of accountability... but first off you have start by laying Christ as the foundation... you don't hold Moses or Elijah or the Law or the Prophets over the revelation that's in Christ... as the Father rebuked the disciples... He's His beloved Son... hear Him...

So when He says it's the Spirit that will teach you and someone says, "No.. it's a man reading a book to you that teaches you" You know that person is disagreeing with written testimony to the Lord...

When He says there's no way to the Father but by Me and someone says, "There's no way to the Father except through reading a book" you know that person is disagreeing with the written testimony to the Lord...

When He says no one comes to me unless the Father Himself calls them and someone says, "No one comes to Him unless someone reads them the bible" you know that person is disagreeing with the written testimony to the Lord...

Well, this explains it pretty well. I still believe that the Bible is God's word, and God breathed. However, you have a very valid point here.

 

[Rach1370]

You're a liar... I never said "the bible could go take a jump for all I care"... so until you actually respond to the truth of what I say I'm over you as well as Ducky... I'm just gonna hide you guys... last thing I need is people manipulating, twisting, and making up things I never said and then responding to illusions, lies and false witnesses bared against me... not worth my time or my energy... so I'm done with the both of you...

Whoa, Robbie, calm down! I'm not a liar, and I'm sorry If I jumped to a conclusion on what you think. I came to that conclusion based on some things you have said...mainly when you said you didn't care what Corinthians said, cause you had Christ in you. If that is not your point, I'm sorry. But maybe...please, be a little more careful at how you say things??
Now, honestly, I'm not trying to do a Ducky here (believe me, I know what he can be like). I'm just trying to actively discuss this issue. And to me, it's a fairly huge issue. I do not worship the Bible...it's is just a book with pages and writing in it. Your point about that is valid and I agree. The printed words on those pages do not contain magic or power in and of themselves. The real power is Jesus Himself, the words and deeds that He did, that He still does. But I'm asking you to think things through a little more...to follow your thoughts to their logical conclusions...
You say that the 'God within you trumps a book' (am hoping I am not leaping to conclusions again here!), and to an extent that is true.
But what if I say that 'the God within me pushes me towards the book'...that the book and the Spirit resonate with one another, because the Spirit wrote the book.
If you then say 'no, you are in denial in your dead religion, and the God within me says that'....and then I say 'well, the God within me upholds the book, so you are wrong'. Do you begin to see the problem?? The conclusion here is that we can't both be right, that the same 'God' should be in both of us, but apparently He is telling us different things.
I don't want to fight with you Robbie...I love how you love! But I also don't want you telling me I'm mired in a dead religion just because I'm following my heart and soul and the Spirit dwelling in me, and loving the word that He has given to me. Because that's what you are doing. And while I'm happy to apologise for any assumptions I may have made about you, I will not say sorry for following the Spirit's prompting...and friend, He rejoices in me reading His word. That's just how it is.

 

[Perspectives]

WOW!!!! what a load of misunderstanding. Look at God's supposed meanness this way, electricity isn't mean, but it is dangerous. A raging river isn't mean, but it too is dangerous. If we don't operate appropriately there will be consequences. Mean is simply code for wanting to do your own thing!

 

[Groundzero]

WOW!!!! what a load of misunderstanding. Look at God's supposed meanness this way, electricity isn't mean, but it is dangerous. A raging river isn't mean, but it too is dangerous. If we don't operate appropriately there will be consequences. Mean is simply code for wanting to do your own thing!

Great post! So true.

 

[Rach1370]

WOW!!!! what a load of misunderstanding. Look at God's supposed meanness this way, electricity isn't mean, but it is dangerous. A raging river isn't mean, but it too is dangerous. If we don't operate appropriately there will be consequences. Mean is simply code for wanting to do your own thing!

Nice! And so very true! Thanks for the post!

 

[FHII]

Scripture is the only place we can go to for absolute truth about God’s word.

Hey Robbie... Didn't you say you agree with Calbhach? You agree with this too? Or do you just like that he stood up for Fire 7 and homosexuals and sinners? Or is it just that he challenged Duckybill? Let me ask you.... Do you hate the Bible? And do you hate those who hold the Bible as the final authority?

Calbhach, here's the thing.... I actually agree with alot of what you said. Go through the archives. You too Fire 7! I make no bones about it.... Homsexuality is a sin. But I also make no bones about it that it is covered by grace. It is a sin of the flesh and by it you are going to hell! But if you are covered by grace, it is forgiven.

Check the archieves of this board. Duckybill and I haven't always seen eye to eye. I agree with him on the Bible being what it is, but I don't agree with him on the analysis of it.

 

[Duckybill]

Hey Robbie... Didn't you say you agree with Calbhach? You agree with this too? Or do you just like that he stood up for Fire 7 and homosexuals and sinners? Or is it just that he challenged Duckybill? Let me ask you.... Do you hate the Bible? And do you hate those who hold the Bible as the final authority?

Calbhach, here's the thing.... I actually agree with alot of what you said. Go through the archives. You too Fire 7! I make no bones about it.... Homsexuality is a sin. But I also make no bones about it that it is covered by grace. It is a sin of the flesh and by it you are going to hell! But if you are covered by grace, it is forgiven.

Check the archieves of this board. Duckybill and I haven't always seen eye to eye. I agree with him on the Bible being what it is, but I don't agree with him on the analysis of it.

Among those who are truly saved by Jesus' Blood atonement there will be MANY disagreements. There's a lot of Christian doctrines that are not matters of salvation. When anyone denies Jesus/God or that the Bible is the Word of God he is on very dangerous ground. I will never back down on these things. If the Bible is full of contradictions then we might as well pitch it in the trash. I see no middle ground on these issues.

 

[Robbie]

Rach...

Know this... it's not just you Rach I was reacting to... it was Ducky, Grounzero, etc... twisting my words and making stuff up that I never said... and then when you came along and also made something up I never said I was over it... and I don't think I overreacted... it wasn't truth... I had never said it... so you never should have said I said it... and it was a lie... but I forgive you...

So if you want to know what my opinion of the bible is why don't you ask me... then you won't have to guess... so far I've only been defending myself against Ducky saying that without the bible I can't talk to Jesus... and Groundzero saying that without the bible it's not possible to share Jesus... no one has asked me yet how I view the bible... although I have hinted to it... it's like wouldn't you rather understand me instead of just making blinding assumptions?

And I read the book every day Rach... although I stopped reading the Old Testament long ago and mainly just read the testimonies to Jesus... but I had already read the Old Testiment all the way through probably four times... I ahve no idea how many times I've read the New... probably over 20 straight through... and then there's the last couple years where I've only read the testimonies to Jesus... so trust me... I'm not against reading the bible... and I never said I was... nor would I ever tell anyone not to read the bible... what i would tell people and the point I've been getting at this whole time is you can't take away my relationship with God by taking away my bible... and if someone stuck me in a prison somewhere for my faith where there were no bibles I could still share Jesus and the people there could still believe and receive Christ... God's Living Word in themselves...

 

[Duckybill]

Rach...

Know this... it's not just you Rach I was reacting to... it was Ducky, Grounzero, etc... twisting my words and making stuff up that I never said... and then when you came along and also make something up I never said I was over it... and I don't think I overreacted... it wasn't truth... I had never said it... so you never should have said I said it... and it was a lie... but I forgive you...

You don't need us to 'twist your words' Robbie. You're doing a fine job.

 

[Robbie]

You said I said so much stuff I never said Ducky... haha... but whatever... that's on you...