Why Old Eschatologies Should Be Updated

[covenantee]

Gen 12.2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you.

Fulfilled long ago.

1. Deuteronomy 4:6
   Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Deuteronomy 4:7
   For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

 

[covenantee]

Gen 17. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.

Fulfilled through natural genetic dispersion and diffusion over the millennia. Abraham's DNA is possessed by the entire human race.

Corroborated empirically by the Jewish community itself.

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Demonstrated mathematically.

Example of ancestral genetic ubiquity:

Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty

BY CARL ZIMMER

Nobody in my past was hugely famous, at least that I know of. I vaguely recall that an ancestor of mine who shipped over on the Mayflower distinguished himself by falling out of the ship and having to get fished out of the water. He might be notable, I guess, but hardly famous. It is much more fun to think that I am a bloodline descendant of Charlemagne. And in 1999, Joseph Chang gave me permission to think that way.

Chang was not a genealogist who had decided to make me his personal project. Instead, he is a statistician at Yale who likes to think of genealogy as a mathematical problem. When you draw your genealogy, you make two lines from yourself back to each of your parents. Then you have to draw two lines for each of them, back to your four grandparents. And then eight great-grandparents, sixteen great-great-grandparents, and so on. But not so on for very long. If you go back to the time of Charlemagne, forty generations or so, you should get to a generation of a trillion ancestors. That’s about two thousand times more people than existed on Earth when Charlemagne was alive.

The only way out of this paradox is to assume that our ancestors are not independent of one another. That is, if you trace their ancestry back, you loop back to a common ancestor. We’re not talking about first-cousin stuff here–more like twentieth-cousin. This means that instead of drawing a tree that fans out exponentially, we need to draw a web-like tapestry.

In a paper he published in 1999 [pdf], Chang analyzed this tapestry mathematically. If you look at the ancestry of a living population of people, he concluded, you’ll eventually find a common ancestor of all of them. That’s not to say that a single mythical woman somehow produced every European by magically laying a clutch of eggs. All this means is that as you move back through time, sooner or later some of the lines in the genealogy will cross, meeting at a single person.

As you go back further in time, more of those lines cross as you encounter more common ancestors of the living population. And then something really interesting happens. There comes a point at which, Chang wrote, “all individuals who have any descendants among the present-day individuals are actually ancestors of all present-day individuals.”

In 2002, the journalist Steven Olson wrote an article in the Atlantic about Chang’s work. To put some empirical meat on the abstract bones of Chang’s research, Olson considered a group of real people–living Europeans.

The most recent common ancestor of every European today (except for recent immigrants to the Continent) was someone who lived in Europe in the surprisingly recent past—only about 600 years ago. In other words, all Europeans alive today have among their ancestors the same man or woman who lived around 1400. Before that date, according to Chang’s model, the number of ancestors common to all Europeans today increased, until, about a thousand years ago, a peculiar situation prevailed: 20 percent of the adult Europeans alive in 1000 would turn out to be the ancestors of no one living today (that is, they had no children or all their descendants eventually died childless); each of the remaining 80 percent would turn out to be a direct ancestor of every European living today.

Suddenly, my pedigree looked classier: I am a descendant of Charlemagne. Of course, so is every other European. By the way, I’m also a descendant of Nefertiti. And so are you, and everyone else on Earth today. Chang figured that out by expanding his model from living Europeans to living humans, and getting an estimate of 3400 years instead of a thousand for the all-ancestor generation.

Things have changed a lot in the fourteen years since Chang published his first paper on ancestry. Scientists have amassed huge databases of genetic information about people all over the world. These may not be the same thing as a complete genealogy of the human race, but geneticists can still use them to tackle some of the same questions that intrigued Chang.

Recently, two geneticists, Peter Ralph of the University of Southern California and Graham Coop of the University of California at Davis, decided to look at the ancestry of Europe. They took advantage of a compilation of information about 2257 people from across the continent. Scientists had examined half a million sites in each person’s DNA, creating a distinctive list of genetic markers for each of them.

You can use this kind of genetic information to make some genealogical inferences, but you have to know what you’re dealing with. Your DNA is not a carbon copy of your parents’. Each time they made eggs or sperm, they shuffled the two copies of each of their chromosomes and put one in the cell. Just as a new deck gets more scrambled the more times you shuffle it, chromosomes get more shuffled from one generation to the next.

This means that if you compare two people’s DNA, you will find some chunks that are identical in sequence. The more closely related people are, the bigger the chunks you’ll find. This diagram shows how two first cousins share a piece of DNA that’s identical by descent (IBD for short).

Ralph and Coop identified 1.9 million of these long shared segments of DNA shared by at least two people in their study. They then used the length of each segment to estimate how long ago it arose from a common ancestor of the living Europeans.

Their results, published today in PLOS Biology, both confirm Chang’s mathematical approach and enrich it. Even within the past thousand years, Ralph and Coop found, people on opposite sides of the continent share a lot of segments in common–so many, in fact, that it’s statistically impossible for them to have gotten them all from a single ancestor. Instead, someone in Turkey and someone in England have to share a lot of ancestors. In fact, as Chang suspected, the only way to explain the DNA is to conclude that everyone who lived a thousand years ago who has any descendants today is an ancestor of every European. Charlemagne for everyone!

If you compare two people in Turkey, you’ll find bigger shared segments of DNA, which isn’t surprising. Since they live in the same country, chances are they have more recent ancestors, and more of them. But there is a rich, intriguing pattern to the number of shared segments among Europeans. People across Eastern Europe, for example, have a larger set of shared segments than people from within single countries in Western Europe. That difference may be the signature of a big expansion of the Slavs.

Ralph and Coop’s study may provide a new tool for reconstructing the history of humans on every continent, not just Europe. It will also probably keep people puzzling over the complexities of genealogy.


How does God distinguish genetic Jews from genetic Jews?

It matters not one whit.

Because God has only two covenant criteria.

Two spiritual genes.

Faith and obedience.

Abraham's Spiritual DNA.

And nothing else.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Fulfilled long ago.

1. Deuteronomy 4:6
   Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Deuteronomy 4:7
   For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

Yes, it had a partial fulfillment in the past. But as we all know, it didn't work out over the long run. And so, we are told, in the NT, that the final fulfillment is yet to happen.

I can assure you that there is nothing personal within it. It is a declaration which is found in all wills and testaments.

What does yours say?

My will is recorded with an attorney, and is not readily accessible. At any rate, I do not consider it necessary to prove a point. As I said, current law and current English use of wills do not prove anything with respect to covenant theology in the Bible.

Those who erase God's promises simply because they were given under a pre-Christian period of time are ignoring the Scriptures that declare God's promises will be fulfilled regardless. Christ can fulfill promises even when OT truth forbids that Man can claim promises he has been disqualified for.

When God promised that Israel would survive as a nation, He did not say that the promise was good only up until Israel failed in the OT era. He did not say that when Christ came all of those promises would be nullified. Look up Contract Law, and you will see that the specifics of the contract are what constitute the requirements. It is not the *form* of Contract Law that determines how any other Contract will work.

In the same way, my own personal Will cannot determine how God operates His own plan for His people to inherit the earth. Their disqualification due to sin cannot be used when He has provided Christ as an atonement for their sin. As such, the Will and the Inheritance are still in play, and will be fulfilled.

I would add that Paul argues inheritance based on the death of parents not to make an exact equivalency between Christ's death and the death of our parents. He was focusing primarily on the fact that Christ no longer held the instrument of condemnation, and died to that condemnation, in the same way that parents died and lost their ability to hold their own property.

 

[covenantee]

Yes, it had a partial fulfillment in the past. But as we all know, it didn't work out over the long run. And so, we are told, in the NT, that the final fulfillment is yet to happen.

There's nothing partial about what God said in the verses I cited. The literal fulfillment of the promise was complete then. The NT fulfillment is spiritual and realized in the Church.

My will is recorded with an attorney, and is not readily accessible. At any rate, I do not consider it necessary to prove a point. As I said, current law and current English use of wills do not prove anything with respect to covenant theology in the Bible.

I'll tell you what it says:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former wills, codicils, and other testamentary dispositions made by me."

A New Will and Testament revokes an old will and testament.

The legal jurisprudence which defines and governs Wills and Testaments today originated in the "beriths" and "diathekes" of Hebrew and Greek Biblical history.

It has not changed.

 

[Truth7t7]

"Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord", as they are bringing in everlasting righteousness, ("Christ") into millennial Jerusalem for the real triumphal entry, as he begins his earthly reign.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Truth7t7]

Actually no. God made promises to Abraham on behalf of entire *nations.* You would cross out "nations" and write in "individuals?" It was God's promises--not promises that you wish that He had made!

You will closely note you have provided no scripture to support your claims made, silence, crickets, owl hoot, big smiles!

Randy your in a fantasy, walking down a yellow brick road, looking for a Kingdom that will never be found on this earth

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

This is *not* my imagination...

Gen 12.2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you.
Gen 17. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.

Yes and this covenant has been fulfilled in "Jesus Christ" the promised "Seed"

Randy you don't want to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the promised "Seed", and his children is "The Church" and not some ethnic people "Jews" in the middle east

Galatians 3:16KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Genesis 17:5-7KJV
5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

The Eternal Kingdom is seen in Ezekiel Chapters 47-48 regarding the division of land for inheritance in the "New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem"

"The Eternal Kingdom, In The New Heaven And Earth"

Ezekiel 47:12-14KJV
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.
13 Thus saith the Lord God; This shall be the border, whereby ye shall inherit the land according to the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions.
14 And ye shall inherit it, one as well as another: concerning the which I lifted up mine hand to give it unto your fathers: and this land shall fall unto you for inheritance.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Ezekiel 48:29-35KJV
29 This is the land which ye shall divide by lot unto the tribes of Israel for inheritance, and these are their portions, saith the Lord God.
30 And these are the goings out of the city on the north side, four thousand and five hundred measures.
31 And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi.
32 And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan.
33 And at the south side four thousand and five hundred measures: and three gates; one gate of Simeon, one gate of Issachar, one gate of Zebulun.
34 At the west side four thousand and five hundred, with their three gates; one gate of Gad, one gate of Asher, one gate of Naphtali.
35 It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The Lord is there.

"The Eternal New Jerusalem"

Revelation 21:10-14KJV
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[Trekson]

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

And when Rev. 19:20 happens the millennial reign will begin. Still doubt? Read the last chapter in every book of OT prophecy!

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Per Daniel 12 we know that spiritual and secular knowledge will increase in the latter days yet many of us cling to millennia and centuries old eschatologies even though there is no real modern scriptural basis for them. Beliefs like amill, postmill, preterism and historicism need to be upgraded because we should be no longer bound to generations that didn’t have the scientific and spiritual insights that God has granted us in these latter days.

Great points overall, you miss the mark on a few points, but it is because of the very things you spoke of, learned understandings from the past. The Lord spoke to me 7 years ago when I asked why the Church was so all over the place on Eschatology with 100s of different interpretations, when only one can be true, and He said "Ron, you guys already know it all" so, I understand back then what you are saying now, I had to reboot everything, throw down old men's traditions if God was going to be able to teach me the New End Time Understandings He was ready to release now !!

So what has God been showing us that should give those folks a wake-up call? There are at least 8 events that should cause true students of the bible to rethink their ancient eschatologies and take a literal approach towards prophecy. First, we now know that various size meteors could cause the damages in Rev. 8. We know that China alone has a military exceeding the 200 million of Rev. 9:16. Through satellite technology and the internet we now know how Rev. 11:9 will become a literal reality.

I agree with all but the 200 million, you see, nowhere in Rev. 9 does it even infer these are men, we just put Rev. 9 together with Rev. 16 and we think these are the kings of the East, or China, but watch what the bible says these 200 million are.

Rev. 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.

20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

So, these are 200 million or two hundred thousand, thousand. Notice everything can be multiplied by 10 after the 2 and 10 means completion. (there is a name for a whole group of angels like this, I forget).

But notice verse 20, those men with the Mark of the beast were killed by PLAGUES and plagues are of God, not men not of Satan, Jesus said Satan can not war against Satan. So, why do people think these are men? This verse seems to indicate these are demons bound in a river, after all God would not bind Angels right? But notice, they are not bound in a literal sense, but bound to a day, a month, a time and a year.

Rev. 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

So, these are Angels, not bound in the river per se, but they are bound to that area via an Hour, a Day, a month and a year, to kill 1/3 of men [who have taken the Mark of the Best].

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes and this covenant has been fulfilled in "Jesus Christ" the promised "Seed"

Randy you don't want to acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the promised "Seed", and his children is "The Church" and not some ethnic people "Jews" in the middle east

How many times do you intend to misrepresent what I believe? I've been continuously arguing that it is *through Jesus* that all of God's promises are fulfilled on our behalf. That is because theologically we cannot be saved in any other way. It *must* be through Jesus and through his Atonement.

When you say I don't believe this, you misrepresent my position in front of others, and that is getting dangerously close to slandering me. To be perfectly clear I *do* acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the promised "Seed," and that "his children are "The Church." But if you deny Jews are included in "God's Children" then you are out to lunch. Either that, or you're anti-Semitic.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You will closely note you have provided no scripture to support your claims made, silence, crickets, owl hoot, big smiles!

Randy your in a fantasy, walking down a yellow brick road, looking for a Kingdom that will never be found on this earth

Jesus Is The Lord

And you're an old military guy whose Christianity has been compromised.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There's nothing partial about what God said in the verses I cited. The literal fulfillment of the promise was complete then. The NT fulfillment is spiritual and realized in the Church.

I'll tell you what it says:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former wills, codicils, and other testamentary dispositions made by me."

A New Will and Testament revokes an old will and testament.

The legal jurisprudence which defines and governs Wills and Testaments today originated in the "beriths" and "diathekes" of Hebrew and Greek Biblical history.

It has not changed.

What you're missing is that the *entire NW Bible* is a testimony to Israel's failure under the Law, and as such the failure of every human being under the Law. Since all are sinners, all come under the same condemnation that Adam came under, having sinned against the word of God.

So Israel may have indeed inherited Canaan, but they could not hold it indefinitely, since the curses of sin would ultimately over come the nation. The curses of the Law proclaim this and anticipated it. At the same time, Israel was promised it would be upheld through mercy.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Fulfilled through natural genetic dispersion and diffusion over the millennia. Abraham's DNA is possessed by the entire human race.

My goodness--I didn't need a Book Report! I understand what DNA is, and how races are changed and modified over time. Nobody is arguing that every African tribe is *exactly* the same DNA-defined race as in ancient times. But there is no question African races still exist. They simply evolve over time, just as the Jewish people have evolved over time.

The principle of a race, however, is its origin, as well as its cultural identity. And the Jews still have that. They are the product of *all 12 tribes* combined!

After all, the promise God made was not for the perpetuity of all 12 tribes. Rather, they were preliminary to the production of a nation, which would last until all the promises concerning it would be fulfilled.

The dispersion of "Jewish DNA," as will as the import of "foreign DNA" into the Jewish race, do not change the constitution of a Jewish race. Their cultural identity continues to hold them together, and continues to include the base DNA of the original 12 tribes. The export of Jewish DNA into other cultural groups is lost over time because there are no cultural ties to hold them together.

 

[Truth7t7]

To be perfectly clear I *do* acknowledge that Jesus Christ was the promised "Seed," and that "his children are "The Church." But if you deny Jews are included in "God's Children" then you are out to lunch. Either that, or you're anti-Semitic.

Ok I fully understand your position now, and only those saved by the finished work on Calvary will be God's Children

Not all ethnic Jews are going to be saved as you have suggested many times "National Salvation For Israel"

 

[covenantee]

My goodness--I didn't need a Book Report! I understand what DNA is, and how races are changed and modified over time. Nobody is arguing that every African tribe is *exactly* the same DNA-defined race as in ancient times. But there is no question African races still exist. They simply evolve over time, just as the Jewish people have evolved over time.

The principle of a race, however, is its origin, as well as its cultural identity. And the Jews still have that. They are the product of *all 12 tribes* combined!

After all, the promise God made was not for the perpetuity of all 12 tribes. Rather, they were preliminary to the production of a nation, which would last until all the promises concerning it would be fulfilled.

The dispersion of "Jewish DNA," as will as the import of "foreign DNA" into the Jewish race, do not change the constitution of a Jewish race. Their cultural identity continues to hold them together, and continues to include the base DNA of the original 12 tribes. The export of Jewish DNA into other cultural groups is lost over time because there are no cultural ties to hold them together.

There are no "pure" races. Every individual possesses varying amounts of DNA of other races.

Empirics and mathematics reveal that all individuals possess varying amounts of ancient ancestral DNA, which includes Abraham's DNA.

Neither Abraham's DNA nor Jewish culture have ever saved anyone.

Nor ever will.

The scribes and Pharisees testify from their graves.

Korah and his followers testify from their graves.

The tens of thousands of pedigreed Israelites whom God slew because of unfaithfulness and disobedience testify from their graves.

Only spiritual DNA saves.

Two genes.

Faithfulness and obedience to God and His Son.

And nothing else.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Ok I fully understand your position now, and only those saved by the finished work on Calvary will be God's Children

Not all ethnic Jews are going to be saved as you have suggested many times "National Salvation For Israel"

Thank you, but again, you have my position wrong. And I can't judge why this is? Regardless, let me clarify--I don't believe *all ethnic Jews are going to be saved.* What kind of Christian believes that all of any particular race is going to get saved?

Sometimes I don't know who I've told what, but I'll reiterate my belief for you now. I believe the "salvation of all Israel," which Paul referred to in Rom 11, refers to Israel's *political salvation,* and not to *evangelical salvation.* It only refers to the preservation of the entire country, as opposed to only half the country surviving, for example.

How is Paul only concerned about the political salvation of all Israel? Paul rightly believed that salvaging just a part of Israel was not what the Prophets foretold. They foretold a complete restoration of the state, because the Kingdom of God was promised to Israel under Messiah that would never again suffer destruction.

So God is going to restore the political state of Israel, I believe, when Messiah returns, and exclude from this state any who oppose Messiah. That is, all rebellious Jews will be excluded, leaving a state fully in support of the Christian religion. This will mean that within a state entirely Christian there will be many who are genuine Christians even if a good number are purely "nominal Christians."

Zech 13.4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of their prophetic vision. They will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 Each will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.’ 6 If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’

 

[Randy Kluth]

There are no "pure" races. Every individual possesses varying amounts of DNA of other races.

This response shows me that you have not understood what I'm saying. I'm saying that "race," by definition, is not fixed, and is constantly evolving. Nevertheless, the term "race" is still used. The Jewish race today is evolved and different from what it was in ancient times. But the base DNA of the original 12 tribes is still there. And what keeps them together as a people are their culture. So the Jewish race is not said to be "pure"--rather, it is said to be a legitimate reality.

Nobody is saying DNA saves--only Jesus saves. What is at stake is God's fidelity to His own Word. And He has promised Abraham what He Himself would do, in preserving a nation descended from Abraham, and in providing many nations who have the same faith as Abraham. God's Word is at stake--not the basis of Salvation.

Let me try to bring this a little closer to home. Let's say you, as a man and father, please the Lord in so many ways--not perfect, but in so many ways. Like Abraham you do what God asks of you, and clean up mistakes as they come.

So God rewards this kind of obedience by promising heirs who will carry on this example. But God cannot make people choose right, and your children decide to sin. Your son raises up his own children with his bad example of disobedience and paganism, causing his own children to follow in his footsteps.

So what becomes of God's promise to reward you for your obedience? God has to let people make their own choices. And bad choices become worse, until it seems the inheritance is lost to paganism for a thousand generations.

But does God forget? No, He never forgets, and will always honor His word. After a thousand generations, and the punishments have purged the family line, descendants will be ripe for returning to faith in the Lord. And God will have shown Himself faithful to you, by bringing under judgment those who have failed you, and bringing into focus the thing that your righteousness intended to bring about.

That is basically the story of Abraham and Israel. Abraham was faithful and raised his children right. But over time Israel descended into chaos to the point of seemingly no return. Over the last several thousand years God has been patient, only partly purging the nation. Ultimately He will purge the entire nation. Then He will restore them at the proper time. Then God's word to Abraham will be vindicated, as I understand it.

 

[Truth7t7]

And when Rev. 19:20 happens the millennial reign will begin. Still doubt? Read the last chapter in every book of OT prophecy!

Last chapter of Genesis, no Millennial Kingdom is seen, possibly I need a pair of your make believe fairy tale glasses to put on, smiles!

Genesis 50:1-26KJV
1 And Joseph fell upon his father's face, and wept upon him, and kissed him.
2 And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel.
3 And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.
4 And when the days of his mourning were past, Joseph spake unto the house of Pharaoh, saying, If now I have found grace in your eyes, speak, I pray you, in the ears of Pharaoh, saying,
5 My father made me swear, saying, Lo, I die: in my grave which I have digged for me in the land of Canaan, there shalt thou bury me. Now therefore let me go up, I pray thee, and bury my father, and I will come again.
6 And Pharaoh said, Go up, and bury thy father, according as he made thee swear.
7 And Joseph went up to bury his father: and with him went up all the servants of Pharaoh, the elders of his house, and all the elders of the land of Egypt,
8 And all the house of Joseph, and his brethren, and his father's house: only their little ones, and their flocks, and their herds, they left in the land of Goshen.
9 And there went up with him both chariots and horsemen: and it was a very great company.
10 And they came to the threshingfloor of Atad, which is beyond Jordan, and there they mourned with a great and very sore lamentation: and he made a mourning for his father seven days.
11 And when the inhabitants of the land, the Canaanites, saw the mourning in the floor of Atad, they said, This is a grievous mourning to the Egyptians: wherefore the name of it was called Abelmizraim, which is beyond Jordan.
12 And his sons did unto him according as he commanded them:
13 For his sons carried him into the land of Canaan, and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, which Abraham bought with the field for a possession of a buryingplace of Ephron the Hittite, before Mamre.
14 And Joseph returned into Egypt, he, and his brethren, and all that went up with him to bury his father, after he had buried his father.
15 And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him.
16 And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying,
17 So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him.
18 And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants.
19 And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God?
20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
21 Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.
22 And Joseph dwelt in Egypt, he, and his father's house: and Joseph lived an hundred and ten years.
23 And Joseph saw Ephraim's children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph's knees.
24 And Joseph said unto his brethren, I die: and God will surely visit you, and bring you out of this land unto the land which he sware to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob.
25 And Joseph took an oath of the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you, and ye shall carry up my bones from hence.
26 So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

 

[covenantee]

I'm saying that "race," by definition, is not fixed, and is constantly evolving.

No. It is constantly devolving through ever-increasing genetic dispersion and diffusion over time, as demonstrated empirically and mathematically.

The Jewish race today is evolved and different from what it was in ancient times.

No. It is constantly devolving through ever-increasing genetic dispersion and diffusion over time, as demonstrated empirically and mathematically.

But the base DNA of the original 12 tribes is still there.

It is there in every member of the human race, as demonstrated empirically and mathematically.

And what keeps them together as a people are their culture.

Their culture does not save them.

So the Jewish race is not said to be "pure"--rather, it is said to be a legitimate reality.

It is a legitimate reality present in every member of the human race, as demonstrated empirically and mathematically.

 

[covenantee]

What is at stake is God's fidelity to His own Word. And He has promised Abraham what He Himself would do, in preserving a nation descended from Abraham, and in providing many nations who have the same faith as Abraham. God's Word is at stake--not the basis of Salvation.

God's fidelity to His Own Word is not at stake. It is satisfied and fulfilled in and by Christ, His Son. 2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; et al.

Please provide any Scriptures which disprove those.