Why Old Eschatologies Should Be Updated

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Trekson

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Per Daniel 12 we know that spiritual and secular knowledge will increase in the latter days yet many of us cling to millennia and centuries old eschatologies even though there is no real modern scriptural basis for them. Beliefs like amill, postmill, preterism and historicism need to be upgraded because we should be no longer bound to generations that didn’t have the scientific and spiritual insights that God has granted us in these latter days.

In the past few decades and even in the past couple of years we have learned things that should have caused many of us to realize that futurism is what Revelations is all about and if one is paying attention, God has affirmed these truths to us in several ways. Imo, the only reason peoples eyes aren’t opening is because of pride, selective blindness or traditionalism.

A lot of these beliefs came into being because of what I consider to be spiritual impatience. “Surely, Christ wouldn’t have stayed away this long, we must have overlooked something”. So since the reality of latter days prophecies were literally incomprehensible, they made up “symbolic and spiritual fulfilments” to compensate themselves for their eschatological weaknesses. Imo, if many of the “fathers” of these false eschatologies were witness to the prophetic events beginning w/ 1948 and including these present days they would never have come into being.

So what has God been showing us that should give those folks a wake-up call? There are at least 8 events that should cause true students of the bible to rethink their ancient eschatologies and take a literal approach towards prophecy. First, we now know that various size meteors could cause the damages in Rev. 8. We know that China alone has a military exceeding the 200 million of Rev. 9:16. Through satellite technology and the internet we now know how Rev. 11:9 will become a literal reality.

We know that Israel and Jerusalem are back on the world scene and some should no longer use their lack of existence to keep replacement theology a reality “when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”! With the recent hasty withdrawal from Afghanistan we can now see how Rev. 12:14 will become a reality. With the anti-christian rhetoric even with our own American politicians we can see how easily it could escalate into a severe time of persecution and martyrdom known as the “great tribulation”! With the vaccine mandates and modern technology we can see how easily Rev. 13:16-17 would literally be fulfilled and how easily the world would fall for their deceptions and “believe the lie”! With all the ships sitting offshore waiting to be unloaded we can see what Rev. 18:17-19 will look like when that becomes a reality.

God has graciously given us these signs so that those who have been deceived by eschatologies from the past will wake-up and realize that time is indeed short for His return and to not be so arrogant and so self-assured in their false beliefs that they would foolishly accept the mark of the beast (whatever form that takes) when it makes its appearance. The question becomes: Are you listening?!
 

Randy Kluth

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There may be a few issues with this, but overall I think you're making a good point. It is too extensive to get into the details as to why all of the conflicting views emerged and what causes them to continue, but yes, God seems to have had less concern in the past than now, when things are emerging to support a futurist view. If we're truly following God and not purely tradition, we will find ourselves witness to the book of Revelation being literally fulfilled.
 
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Nancy

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Per Daniel 12 we know that spiritual and secular knowledge will increase in the latter days yet many of us cling to millennia and centuries old eschatologies even though there is no real modern scriptural basis for them. Beliefs like amill, postmill, preterism and historicism need to be upgraded because we should be no longer bound to generations that didn’t have the scientific and spiritual insights that God has granted us in these latter days.

In the past few decades and even in the past couple of years we have learned things that should have caused many of us to realize that futurism is what Revelations is all about and if one is paying attention, God has affirmed these truths to us in several ways. Imo, the only reason peoples eyes aren’t opening is because of pride, selective blindness or traditionalism.

A lot of these beliefs came into being because of what I consider to be spiritual impatience. “Surely, Christ wouldn’t have stayed away this long, we must have overlooked something”. So since the reality of latter days prophecies were literally incomprehensible, they made up “symbolic and spiritual fulfilments” to compensate themselves for their eschatological weaknesses. Imo, if many of the “fathers” of these false eschatologies were witness to the prophetic events beginning w/ 1948 and including these present days they would never have come into being.

So what has God been showing us that should give those folks a wake-up call? There are at least 8 events that should cause true students of the bible to rethink their ancient eschatologies and take a literal approach towards prophecy. First, we now know that various size meteors could cause the damages in Rev. 8. We know that China alone has a military exceeding the 200 million of Rev. 9:16. Through satellite technology and the internet we now know how Rev. 11:9 will become a literal reality.

We know that Israel and Jerusalem are back on the world scene and some should no longer use their lack of existence to keep replacement theology a reality “when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”! With the recent hasty withdrawal from Afghanistan we can now see how Rev. 12:14 will become a reality. With the anti-christian rhetoric even with our own American politicians we can see how easily it could escalate into a severe time of persecution and martyrdom known as the “great tribulation”! With the vaccine mandates and modern technology we can see how easily Rev. 13:16-17 would literally be fulfilled and how easily the world would fall for their deceptions and “believe the lie”! With all the ships sitting offshore waiting to be unloaded we can see what Rev. 18:17-19 will look like when that becomes a reality.

God has graciously given us these signs so that those who have been deceived by eschatologies from the past will wake-up and realize that time is indeed short for His return and to not be so arrogant and so self-assured in their false beliefs that they would foolishly accept the mark of the beast (whatever form that takes) when it makes its appearance. The question becomes: Are you listening?!
You bring some good insights here. After all, we did not even have the bible until the printing presses, I see how eschatology should be changing as the time gets nearer. As you said, knowledge has increased as technology has also.
Really good stuff, thank you for the share. Gives much to consider.
 

Truth7t7

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Per Daniel 12 we know that spiritual and secular knowledge will increase in the latter days yet many of us cling to millennia and centuries old eschatologies even though there is no real modern scriptural basis for them. Beliefs like amill, postmill, preterism and historicism need to be upgraded because we should be no longer bound to generations that didn’t have the scientific and spiritual insights that God has granted us in these latter days.

In the past few decades and even in the past couple of years we have learned things that should have caused many of us to realize that futurism is what Revelations is all about and if one is paying attention, God has affirmed these truths to us in several ways. Imo, the only reason peoples eyes aren’t opening is because of pride, selective blindness or traditionalism.

A lot of these beliefs came into being because of what I consider to be spiritual impatience. “Surely, Christ wouldn’t have stayed away this long, we must have overlooked something”. So since the reality of latter days prophecies were literally incomprehensible, they made up “symbolic and spiritual fulfilments” to compensate themselves for their eschatological weaknesses. Imo, if many of the “fathers” of these false eschatologies were witness to the prophetic events beginning w/ 1948 and including these present days they would never have come into being.

So what has God been showing us that should give those folks a wake-up call? There are at least 8 events that should cause true students of the bible to rethink their ancient eschatologies and take a literal approach towards prophecy. First, we now know that various size meteors could cause the damages in Rev. 8. We know that China alone has a military exceeding the 200 million of Rev. 9:16. Through satellite technology and the internet we now know how Rev. 11:9 will become a literal reality.

We know that Israel and Jerusalem are back on the world scene and some should no longer use their lack of existence to keep replacement theology a reality “when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”! With the recent hasty withdrawal from Afghanistan we can now see how Rev. 12:14 will become a reality. With the anti-christian rhetoric even with our own American politicians we can see how easily it could escalate into a severe time of persecution and martyrdom known as the “great tribulation”! With the vaccine mandates and modern technology we can see how easily Rev. 13:16-17 would literally be fulfilled and how easily the world would fall for their deceptions and “believe the lie”! With all the ships sitting offshore waiting to be unloaded we can see what Rev. 18:17-19 will look like when that becomes a reality.

God has graciously given us these signs so that those who have been deceived by eschatologies from the past will wake-up and realize that time is indeed short for His return and to not be so arrogant and so self-assured in their false beliefs that they would foolishly accept the mark of the beast (whatever form that takes) when it makes its appearance. The question becomes: Are you listening?!
The problem is with those that falsely teach and believe God has a future plan with a "National Israel" in dual covenant theology in two peoples of God

God has two plans alive today

1.) Eternal Salvation (Church)

2.) Damnation Wicked (World)
 
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Keraz

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After explaining to His disciples the parables of the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus asked them; Have you understood all this? Matthew 13:51 and they answered – Yes.

It was a simple sounding question, but actually He was asking the most profound question of the ages.. Jesus was asking if they knew that, in Gods eyes there are two and only two – classes of people in the world: Those that accept God and His Laws:. wheat, buried treasure, pearls and good fish - and the children of Satan: tares, weeds and worthless fish.

Matthew 13:37-42... He replied: The sower of the good seed is the Son of Man.
The field is the world, the good seed stands for the children of the Kingdom and the weeds, the children of the evil one.
The enemy who sowed the weeds is the devil The harvest is the end of time and the reapers are angels.
As the weeds are gathered up and burnt at the end of the age, the Son of Man will rid His Kingdom of every cause of sin and all whose deeds are evil. These will be thrown into the blazing furnace, where there will be much wailing and sorrow.


Matthew 13:43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father If you have ears, then hear.

Just a speculation – but Jesus gave four parables about who will and who will not inherit the Kingdom;

1/ The wheat and the weeds – Messianic Jews and apostate Jews, the House of Judah.

2/ The buried treasure – The born again Christians who are also the House of Israel.

3/ A pearl of great value – A person who dedicates their life to the Lord.

4/ The good and the worthless fish – Gentile peoples, believers and unbelievers.

Luke 6:20 Blessed are you who are in need; the Kingdom of God is yours.

“There are two kinds of people – those who say to God: Thy will be done, and those to whom God says “all right, then, have it your way” C.S. Lewis
 
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Randy Kluth

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The problem is with those that falsely teach and believe God has a future plan with a "National Israel" in dual covenant theology in two peoples of God

God has two plans alive today

1.) Eternal Salvation (Church)

2.) Damnation Wicked (World)

The covenant God made with Abraham was a single covenant theology, promising at the same time a future for national Israel and a future for many nations of faith, ie Christian nations. All will come to pass in the future. The current state of Israel in unbelief does not prevent them from embracing Christianity as a nation later, at the return of Christ.

Gen 17. 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

Rom 11.25 Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
 

Truth7t7

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The covenant God made with Abraham was a single covenant theology, promising at the same time a future for national Israel and a future for many nations of faith, ie Christian nations. All will come to pass in the future. The current state of Israel in unbelief does not prevent them from embracing Christianity as a nation later, at the return of Christ.

Gen 17. 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

Rom 11.Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
All promises and covenants made to Abraham were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the "Promised Seed"

When the "Remnant Jew" is saved, they become "The Church" where there is neither Jew nor Greek

Your continued claims God has a plan fora "National Israel" Is Laughable!

God has two plans alive today

1.) Eternal Salvation (Church)

2.) Damnation Wicked (World)

Galatians 3:16-18KJV
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
 
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Trekson

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The problem is with those that falsely teach and believe God has a future plan with a "National Israel" in dual covenant theology in two peoples of God

God has two plans alive today

1.) Eternal Salvation (Church)

2.) Damnation Wicked (World)
No, the problem is for some reason folks believe God is a liar and not one to keep his promises. Read the last chapter of every OT prophecy book which is talking about national Israel. They will be the ones who inherit the earth, along w/ some living gentiles, the church has heaven. Even Jesus prophesied about that day to come in Matt. 23:39 plus Rev. of course.
 

Randy Kluth

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All promises and covenants made to Abraham were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the "Promised Seed"

Non sequitur argument. Just because Jesus fulfilled the covenants does not mean the covenants are not guaranteed promises that will be fulfilled in the future. Jesus gave his guarantee that they will be fulfilled, both aspects of this covenant, the salvation of national Israel through Christ and the salvation of many nations through Christ.

When the "Remnant Jew" is saved, they become "The Church" where there is neither Jew nor Greek

I believe you're misinterpreting the statement, which simply indicates that God is impartial with respect to what nationality He is willing to save. I've already shown that the Abrahamic Covenant promised *many nations* salvation. Obviously, this means God is non-partial with respect to salvation.

Obviously, nations become "the Church" when they get saved. Becoming Christian does not automatically make them a non-nation! Nothing could be more absurd, and so your interpretation is incorrect, in my opinion.
 
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Truth7t7

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Read the last chapter of every OT prophecy book which is talking about national Israel. They will be the ones who inherit the earth, along w/ some living gentiles, the church has heaven. Even Jesus prophesied about that day to come in Matt. 23:39 plus Rev. of course.
Matthew 24:39 below states absolutely "Nothing" about your false claims of a Millennial Kingdom on earth, it appears your imagination is running wild again "Smiles"!

Matthew 23:39KJV
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
 
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Truth7t7

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Jesus gave his guarantee that they will be fulfilled, both aspects of this covenant, the salvation of national Israel through Christ and the salvation of many nations through Christ.
National Salvation For Israel is found no place in scripture, your Zionist imagination is working overtime again
 

covenantee

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Non sequitur argument. Just because Jesus fulfilled the covenants does not mean the covenants are not guaranteed promises that will be fulfilled in the future. Jesus gave his guarantee that they will be fulfilled, both aspects of this covenant, the salvation of national Israel through Christ and the salvation of many nations through Christ.
You've still got it wrong, bro.

The promises are testamentary clauses in a Will and Testament, and a New Will and Testament completely replaces an old will and testament.

Thus, all of the promises of God are fulfilled in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; and a whole bunch of Hebrews); and in the New Will and Testament written in His Blood.

That's how Wills and Testaments work.
 
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Truth7t7

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Non sequitur argument. Just because Jesus fulfilled the covenants does not mean the covenants are not guaranteed promises that will be fulfilled in the future. Jesus gave his guarantee that they will be fulfilled, both aspects of this covenant, the salvation of national Israel through Christ and the salvation of many nations through Christ.



I believe you're misinterpreting the statement, which simply indicates that God is impartial with respect to what nationality He is willing to save. I've already shown that the Abrahamic Covenant promised *many nations* salvation. Obviously, this means God is non-partial with respect to salvation.

Obviously, nations become "the Church" when they get saved. Becoming Christian does not automatically make them a non-nation! Nothing could be more absurd, and so your interpretation is incorrect, in my opinion.
Individuals are added to the Church not Nations as you claim

The Church has a heavenly "Country" that's not of this earth, your Zionist imagination is working overtime again

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
 
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Trekson

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Matthew 24:39 below states absolutely "Nothing" about your false claims of a Millennial Kingdom on earth, it appears your imagination is running wild again "Smiles"!

Matthew 23:39KJV
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Exactly! When they, as a nation, say that, it will be after Zech. 12:10 is fulfilled along w/ Zech. 13:8-9 and after Armageddon. Israel will "say", "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord", as they are bringing in everlasting righteousness, ("Christ") into millennial Jerusalem for the real triumphal entry, as he begins his earthly reign. You got to look at the whole of prophecy, not just bits and pieces. Together they tell most of the whole story. Our job is to figure out the timing of each part. Unfulfilled prophecy is simply literal truth that occasionally uses symbolism to get its point across, that hasn't happened yet.
 

Randy Kluth

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You've still got it wrong, bro.

The promises are testamentary clauses in a Will and Testament, and a New Will and Testament completely replaces an old will and testament.

Thus, all of the promises of God are fulfilled in Christ (2 Corinthians 1:20; Galatians 3:16; and a whole bunch of Hebrews); and in the New Will and Testament written in His Blood.

That's how Wills and Testaments work.

I'm not ignorant of wills. You are trying to apply English words to Hebrew expressions. The covenant was unconditional in the sense the promises God made would be fulfilled, regardless of any aspects of the covenant that may have been temporary. That is, promises God made under the Old Covenant are *still valid!*

Do you think God's promise to bring a divine person into the world through a virgin was invalid simply because it was made under the Old Covenant? There was circumcision involved in the covenant God made with Abraham, but the part of the covenant that involved promises God considered binding to Himself. He would complete those promises.

Rom 15.8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed.
2 Cor 1.20 For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ.
Gal 3.16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
Rom 4.13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
Gal 3.17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.


It's obvious that promises God made can and will be fulfilled. But the aspects of God's covenants that involved *our obedience* were obviously conditional, because whenever we sin we are disqualified.

So God's promises are always fulfilled on our behalf by grace through Christ. Everything God promised Abraham during the Pre-Christian era were to be fulfilled through Christ by grace. And they will be fulfilled.
 
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covenantee

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I'm not ignorant of wills.
You still refuse to recognize that a New Will and Testament completely revokes and replaces an old will and testament.

Recently I asked you to quote verbatim the Revocation section of your own will and testament. You didn't.

I'm awaiting that.
 

Randy Kluth

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You still refuse to recognize that a New Will and Testament completely revokes and replaces an old will and testament.

Recently I asked you to quote verbatim the Revocation section of your own will and testament. You didn't.

I'm awaiting that.

I didn't see that post. I'm not going to quote anything personal like that.

You apparently have no response to what I posed to you, that the way the Bible describes covenants makes it unimportant whether something God has promised was in the OT or is in the NT. *All* of God's promises are fulfilled by Christ in the NT.

You are diverting away from my point to go back to your false equivalency between English wills and biblical covenants and promises. At this rate we may resolve our differences by Easter. ;)
 

Randy Kluth

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Individuals are added to the Church not Nations as you claim

Actually no. God made promises to Abraham on behalf of entire *nations.* You would cross out "nations" and write in "individuals?" It was God's promises--not promises that you wish that He had made!
 

Randy Kluth

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National Salvation For Israel is found no place in scripture, your Zionist imagination is working overtime again

This is *not* my imagination...

Gen 12.2 “I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless you.
Gen 17. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations.
 

covenantee

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I'm not going to quote anything personal like that.
You can see that there is nothing personal within it. It is a declaration which is found in all wills and testaments.

What does yours say?
 
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