Why OSAS teaches all sins already forgiven

[robert derrick]

"Of the doctrines that will send me out the door of a church. The doctrine that by latching onto Christ we will sin no more is high on the list."

Another goody from OSAS.

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Teaching OSAS is the practice of condemning what is written in Scripture, with humility.

"I can find verses That if I live a life that reflects Gods incredible love, I will live a better life but not a sinless life."

Amen to that. OSAS Motto: "Ever better, but never sinless."

I would agree that OSAS proselytes are good sinners. But they would think that too boastful.

So, in deference to their incredible humility, I agree they are unrighteous and ungodly sinners like everyone else in the world, only better.

Their lifelong goal is to be better than being sinless, And being told to go and sin no more, sends them right out the door to go and be better at sinning much more.

More power of the air to them, I say.

OSAS: the airy art of being better than being righteous. All it takes is incredible love for their humility.

I have never heard so much boasting of one's sinfulness, with humility.

OSAS converts a proud sinner to an humble sinner, with no saints allowed.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

@Wrangler

Thank you for your take on Ps106.

After replies since your last post I have do disagree with your last post that
"No one is claiming to be sinless."

That is between them and God.

I pray that these PERFECT SINLESS men have not caused a lesser man to fall away. Because of the things that Jesus said is unforgivable is this!

By the standards these PERFECT MEN set I am OSAS even though I know I can fall out of forgiveness.
The warning signs of living without forgiveness as Warned about and Shown by Jesus?
Pride, Conceit, Vanity, lack of Humility all warning signs of at least a stiff neck if not a hard heart. A stiff neck and a hard heart, Jesus told these to go away and be Judged you don't need me!

Those that claim perfection do not follow Jesus so why are they here claiming to be Christians?

Alfredthefifth

 

[Philologos]

It's a sect for unrighteous christian sinners, who believe they are unconditionally saved forever by faith alone, and their justification is completely separated from anything they do in life, including sinning with the devil against God.


I.e. once any person 'asks' for salvation, they are thus saved and justified forever. All sinning past, present, and future is now officially forgiven. Any 'strong' preaching of confession for sinning becomes mute and lip-service only.

This thread is about why that lie is taught.

It's to avoid the truth that without confession of sinning with godly sorrow, no one can be saved nor justified by Jesus Christ.

Confession of sinning is asking to be saved, because without confession with godly sorrow, there is no forgiveness, and without forgiveness, there is no salvation.



I say what people are preaching without all their fluffy garnish, and lip-service to Scripture.

If I believed with my heart, that I am already forgiven of all my sinning for the rest of my time on earth, then I would never confess any sinning in order to be forgiven. That would be unbelief.

Scripturally, confession with godly sorrow is to be forgiven, that we may then have a clean conscience and liberty not to sin again.

OSAS teaches being already forgiven, and definitely will sin again, while being already forgiven. Confession therefore becomes a mental exercise with the lips only.

OSAS confession of sinning is the rosary for unrighteous christian religion.

So, you’re just here to argue, yes? You say this post is about “why” this is taught, yet you’re only answer is an emotionally charged list of accusations and insults. Be honest- whats your real goal here. Please, just be honest.

 

[Philologos]

It's a sect for unrighteous christian sinners, who believe they are unconditionally saved forever by faith alone, and their justification is completely separated from anything they do in life, including sinning with the devil against God.


I.e. once any person 'asks' for salvation, they are thus saved and justified forever. All sinning past, present, and future is now officially forgiven. Any 'strong' preaching of confession for sinning becomes mute and lip-service only.

This thread is about why that lie is taught.

It's to avoid the truth that without confession of sinning with godly sorrow, no one can be saved nor justified by Jesus Christ.

Confession of sinning is asking to be saved, because without confession with godly sorrow, there is no forgiveness, and without forgiveness, there is no salvation.



I say what people are preaching without all their fluffy garnish, and lip-service to Scripture.

If I believed with my heart, that I am already forgiven of all my sinning for the rest of my time on earth, then I would never confess any sinning in order to be forgiven. That would be unbelief.

Scripturally, confession with godly sorrow is to be forgiven, that we may then have a clean conscience and liberty not to sin again.

OSAS teaches being already forgiven, and definitely will sin again, while being already forgiven. Confession therefore becomes a mental exercise with the lips only.

OSAS confession of sinning is the rosary for unrighteous christian religion.

I get your passion about this, but I’ve told you that I spent decades in OSAS churches, and what you are saying is different thananything I’ve personally heard… I’ve been hearing OSAS for 35 years, but I’ve never heard what you’re saying. Do you have a specific source(s) for the teaching to which you are referring?

 

[BarneyFife]

We know the false teaching that all sinning past, present, and future is already forgiven, once anyone first believes Jesus died on the cross.

But the real question is why?

Scripture teaches that without confession made of sinning, there is no forgiveness for it. Forgiveness is only if we confess sinning.

This is simple enough, because who argues against confessing sins to be forgiven by God?

OSAS does because Scripture also teaches that there is no forgiveness nor justification by Christ without confession made of sinning.

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.

Forgiveness of sins is the redemption of His blood, therefore, without first confessing our sinning, we have no forgiveness, nor redemption.

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

And since justification is through redemption, then without first confessing our sinning, there is no forgiveness, redemption, nor justification by Christ.

And where there is no justification by Christ, there is no salvation of Christ.

And so, OSAS must be rid of the necessity of confessing sinning, in order to be forgiven of God, without which there is no salvation nor justification by Christ.

Hence, they must have all their sinning past, present, and future already forgiven, with salvation and justification now neatly wrapped up in an unconditional and untouchable heavenly paper bag, where all forgiveness is already sealed.

You want to sin with the devil? No problem. You're already forgiven, and so still saved. Just do it and get it over with, and then move on with the Lord again, in most wonderful celebratory grace.

.
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Why do you always say you no longer argue with ____________, and then constantly start up threads that are seemingly calculated to precipitate arguments with ______________ ?

Can you not see how disingenuous and antagonistic that appears to be?
.
.

 

[robert derrick]

So, you’re just here to argue, yes? You say this post is about “why” this is taught, yet you’re only answer is an emotionally charged list of accusations and insults. Be honest- whats your real goal here. Please, just be honest.

Defaulting to the 'accuse and insult' card. Next it will be the 'hate' card.

Until now, there wasn't anything personal about it.

If you have a correction to any point or detail I make, then do so. My main goal is to deal with adults, not children.

 

[robert derrick]

.
.
Why do you always say you no longer argue with ____________, and then constantly start up threads that are seemingly calculated to precipitate arguments with ______________ ?

Can you not see how disingenuous and antagonistic that appears to be?
.
.

I no longer argue with nor try to correct OSAS believers. Now, I only point out what it is, without all the fluff and celebratory grace-speak.

Ex: OSAS teaches Christians to be dedicated double minded sinners for life, stuck in Romans 7, while claiming Romans 8.

I am not arguing with you, just telling you. Any arguments you people now make against it, no longer matters to me. I've been there and don't that for long enough.

The point is, I don't believe there are any new errors for OSAS believers to divulge, though I may be wrong. I just no longer respond to the old tired ones anymore.

I do expose OSAS errors to others, just not to you. Why not?

Once OSAS Always OSAS.

Now, I don't mind at all your personal posts to me or about me, and if I want, as here, I respond. I just don't argue with you about anything you believe about Scripture and the doctrine of Christ. It doesn't matter to me anymore.

Unless of course you have an entirely new OSAS wrinkle for me to iron out.

 

[Alfredthefifth]

I get your passion about this, but I’ve told you that I spent decades in OSAS churches, and what you are saying is different thananything I’ve personally heard… I’ve been hearing OSAS for 35 years, but I’ve never heard what you’re saying. Do you have a specific source(s) for the teaching to which you are referring?

The way I am starting to see some in this thread is that if a priest out of THE roman catholic CHURCH from 1500 had been time transferred to this year. Would he recognize THE CHURCH.

An 80 year old neighbor 50 years ago, "said they have changed THE CHURCH so much my mom would not recognize it!"
The Bible in common language is why the change has happened.
So YOU would have to hold that the Bible in the common language is herecy. Because the changes in THE Church are direct result of the common man having access to Gods Word.

No longer having to be told what the head of the church says is Gods Word but freely taking in God's Word, outsude THE CHURCH. This lead to the herecy so the Bible must be the herecy! Yes or no?

AND WORST YET, anyone can get the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words and translations without leaving home.

Alfredthefifth

 

[robert derrick]

A response to the point of the thread. Thanks.

Its the NT that teaches that all sin is forgiven already.

It's OSAS that teaches this deceptive twisting of 1 John 2, that says Jesus is the propitiation for all sins of the world. He is the sacrifice that pays the price for forgiveness of any sinning. He has not already forgiven any one's sinning, without first confession and repentance.

All the price for forgiveness is already paid by Jesus' death on His cross, but none of the gift of forgiveness is recieved by any man, until the sin is confessed. All forgiveness is available for any sinning, but no sin is forgiven, until confessed with godly sorrow to repent.

This thread is about why the a lie of already forgiven for all sinning is taught.

The reason is because OSAS cannot allow for any condition whatsoever, to invade their unconditionally secured salvation and justification by their own faith alone.

By Scripture, we must first do our part and confess any sinning humbly to Jesus, in order to receive forgiveness from God. And so, if we do sin against Him, then until we humble ourselves and confess it to Him from the heart, we are not yet forgiven, and if not forgiven, then not saved.

There is no salvation by Jesus, without being forgiven by God, and even OSAS will not, yet, argue against that.

And so, OSAS must teach all sins already forgiven, once anyone believes Jesus died on the cross for forgiveness of sins. In this way, when OSAS christians do sin again, they need not confess their sinning to be forgiven; otherwise, they must acknowledge salvation becomes dependent upon the believer doing their part: confessing from the heart any sin committed past, present, and future to be forgiven of sinning and so saved.

And so, in order to keep their sacrosanct unconditional salvation untouched by anything we must do for it, including confession of sinning, they don't mind teaching that OSAS sinners are already forgiven, and still are being forgiven, even while committing drunken fornication in the face of God.

If I really believed all my sinning was already forgiven, then I would never confess any sin in order to be forgiven, because that would be unbelief, that I am not already forgiven.

Therefore, OSAS cannot in good conscience confess any sinning in order to be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 cannot not apply to OSAS christians.

Confessing sinning therefore is made a ritual with lips only, that has nothing to do with the soul being forgiven by God.

Confession with OSAS christians is their rosary.

The sin issue, is in the life of a person who is not saved, or if they are saved, its a lack of renewed mind issue, whereby they have not understood who they have become as a "new creation in Christ".

I.e. they don't want to understand, because they don't want to do the word and obey Jesus with the heart.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

OSAS teaches unconditional salvation and justification for wayside hearers.

 

[Taken]

Well now. You are not a sinner,

Well now robert, if you would like to respond to ME making that claim about MYSELF...
It would be appropriate for you to FIRST QUOTE of ME making that claim about MYSELF.

 

[Taken]

I take people at their word. If someone wants to call themselves sinners, and declare they will be sinning again from time to time as they wish, then that is what they are, and what they are doing.

I don't judge others by my own mind as you do, but only by what they say and do.

Get real! You start thread after thread, and make while claims for others without a single quote of “those others” speaking for themselves.

 

[Taken]

This thread is about why the a lie of already forgiven for all sinning is taught.

You attempt to put the entire global population from beginning to this day, in YOUR logical mind set of what applies to whom.
I am not subject to what you carnally, know, think, believe.
I am subject to What is Gods Will order and way.

IF it be your choice to continue Sinning Against God, that is your burden, your consequence, not mine.
When the Lord God FORGAVE “ME” of Sin against God, FREED “ME” from Sin against God, that has nothing to do with “YOU”....
Get it?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

A response to the point of the thread. Thanks.


It's OSAS that teaches this deceptive twisting of 1 John 2, that says Jesus is the propitiation for all sins of the world. He is the sacrifice that pays the price for forgiveness of any sinning. He has not already forgiven any one's sinning, without first confession and repentance.

All the price for forgiveness is already paid by Jesus' death on His cross, but none of the gift of forgiveness is recieved by any man, until the sin is confessed. All forgiveness is available for any sinning, but no sin is forgiven, until confessed with godly sorrow to repent.

This thread is about why the a lie of already forgiven for all sinning is taught.

The reason is because OSAS cannot allow for any condition whatsoever, to invade their unconditionally secured salvation and justification by their own faith alone.

By Scripture, we must first do our part and confess any sinning humbly to Jesus, in order to receive forgiveness from God. And so, if we do sin against Him, then until we humble ourselves and confess it to Him from the heart, we are not yet forgiven, and if not forgiven, then not saved.

There is no salvation by Jesus, without being forgiven by God, and even OSAS will not, yet, argue against that.

And so, OSAS must teach all sins already forgiven, once anyone believes Jesus died on the cross for forgiveness of sins. In this way, when OSAS christians do sin again, they need not confess their sinning to be forgiven; otherwise, they must acknowledge salvation becomes dependent upon the believer doing their part: confessing from the heart any sin committed past, present, and future to be forgiven of sinning and so saved.

And so, in order to keep their sacrosanct unconditional salvation untouched by anything we must do for it, including confession of sinning, they don't mind teaching that OSAS sinners are already forgiven, and still are being forgiven, even while committing drunken fornication in the face of God.

If I really believed all my sinning was already forgiven, then I would never confess any sin in order to be forgiven, because that would be unbelief, that I am not already forgiven.

Therefore, OSAS cannot in good conscience confess any sinning in order to be forgiven. 1 John 1:9 cannot not apply to OSAS christians.

Confessing sinning therefore is made a ritual with lips only, that has nothing to do with the soul being forgiven by God.

Confession with OSAS christians is their rosary.



I.e. they don't want to understand, because they don't want to do the word and obey Jesus with the heart.

When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

OSAS teaches unconditional salvation and justification for wayside hearers.

There is two different OSAS and I believe that OSAS but one has to be truly Saved = Truly born again ! one can not loose ones Salvation.

Now on the other side of the coin we have OSAS Nonsense that I have come across that is not truly Saved at all and not truly born again. such people just rant nonsense with an evil dark heart, making claims against the Holy Spirit openly to me ! they think that they are justified by religion ? believing in a god ? Such make big claims boasting that they are Saved regardless. by a religion ? Old mate up the road claims he can do whatever he wants, even kill anyone for no reason ! I said to him but you would have to truly repent of such a Sin ? No ! he does not repent at all, as that is wrong he claims ! he is saved regardless, then he goes on about the clap trap of if you were to die and did not confess of one Sin regardless how small ? That would count you out of going to Heaven ! I said you are insane ! God knows your heart you fool ! one is for Christ Jesus or against him and that's it, confessing is on your part to help you grow up in the light of God and this strengthens one and one gains knowledge through true repentance, some fools may think repenting is about saying words repeating over and over, well that is total nonsense.
One looks into what happened and how to better deal with such next time, not to be tempted ! so one has that knowledge to be for warned of any such temptations that could lead one astray.

I was pushed to the brink over a time and out of that I did something stupid and the Law got involved with me, but looking back I can see I learnt so much through the ordeal and that is to take charge and don't let others dominate over you and Say No to such idiots who only want to use you and abuse you and have no real true regards for you.
Fair enough they were trying to make me strong to deal with the world, but in truth they were abusing me for their own ends. and that's what old mates OSAS is, total BS.

 

[robert derrick]

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!"

Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.

Well, I suppose if you can't keep track, then perhaps you need a sin-steps meter like they have on watches and I-phones.

Also, if someone can't keep track of how often they and the devil get together against God, wouldn't that then qualify for being committed to sinning, even by OSAS low standards?

If I am sinning in spirit or in flesh, I know it, and if I don't repent and stop it dead in my tracks and finish it, then I am as dead to God as any other sinner on earth, and I must turn to the world's advocate like any other to confess with godly sorrow for forgiveness, salvation, and sanctification in Christ Jesus.

That's the faith of Jesus I believe from the heart according to Scripture, and live by it, and I am not interested in any other kind of faith and gospel to trust for my soul's sake.

 

[robert derrick]

Old mate up the road claims he can do whatever he wants, even kill anyone for no reason ! I said to him but you would have to truly repent of such a Sin ? No ! he does not repent at all, as that is wrong he claims ! he is saved regardless,

That is called presumptive sins in the Bible. It's a result of teaching all sins already forgiven.

People presume forgiveness of God. It's a mockery of God's righteous judgment. It's also accusing God of respect of persons, to judge one man's sinning and not another, because the other is supposed to be 'saved'. In romans 2 Paul said the world mocks God's law and salvation because of such hypocrisy.

 

[robert derrick]

Well now robert, if you would like to respond to ME making that claim about MYSELF...
It would be appropriate for you to FIRST QUOTE of ME making that claim about MYSELF.

When the Lord God FORGAVE “ME” of Sin against God, FREED “ME” from Sin against God, that has nothing to do with “YOU”....
Get it?

As I thought. What I get is your dead physical body theory, about how your soul is no longer judged for the sinning of your body.

You've set your self free from spiritual judgement of your continued sinning in the flesh.

I have nothing more for you. Enjoy.

 

[Taken]

As I thought. What I get is your dead physical body theory,

That is false.
I have neither proposed a theory or said my dead physical body.
Salvation IS given after a BODILY DEATH.
You may not believe a BODILY DEATH, crucified with Christ Jesus’ BODY is acceptable TO YOU, however IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE LORD GOD, and at no time did I consult with YOU AS IF your opinion matters in an agreement BETWEEN the Lord and myself.

about how your soul is no longer judged for the sinning of your body.

My body and soul was already JUDGED, and FORGIVEN, Before I received the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation.
(Are you completely unaware of Gods ORDER and WAY?
Repentance is not a big secret.)

Here is a brief order. Study would show you more details.

Acts 2:
[38] Then Peter said unto them,
Repent,
and
be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and
ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You've set your self free from spiritual judgement

False. False. False.

No way!
I have set myself free from Nothing!
Are you really THAT uninformed of Gods Works accredited to God?
I am NOT Free from Spiritual Judgement!
The Lord God (who IS Spirit), SHALL Judge and REWARD my works!

of your continued sinning in the flesh.

How does a body crucified dead with Christ Jesus, CONTINUE SINNING?
Do you NOT TRUST, BELIEVE, UNDERSTAND Scripture?
Dead body’s DO NOT SIN!

Rom 6:
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

I have nothing more for you.

That’s the one good thing you have said, since all you did say is utterly False.

 

[robert derrick]

That is false.
I have neither proposed a theory or said my dead physical body.
Salvation IS given after a BODILY DEATH.
You may not believe a BODILY DEATH, crucified with Christ Jesus’ BODY is acceptable TO YOU, however IT IS ACCEPTABLE TO THE LORD GOD, and at no time did I consult with YOU AS IF your opinion matters in an agreement BETWEEN the Lord and myself.



My body and soul was already JUDGED, and FORGIVEN, Before I received the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation.
(Are you completely unaware of Gods ORDER and WAY?
Repentance is not a big secret.)

Here is a brief order. Study would show you more details.

Acts 2:
[38] Then Peter said unto them,
Repent,
and
be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and
ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.




False. False. False.

No way!
I have set myself free from Nothing!
Are you really THAT uninformed of Gods Works accredited to God?
I am NOT Free from Spiritual Judgement!
The Lord God (who IS Spirit), SHALL Judge and REWARD my works!



How does a body crucified dead with Christ Jesus, CONTINUE SINNING?
Do you NOT TRUST, BELIEVE, UNDERSTAND Scripture?
Dead body’s DO NOT SIN!

Rom 6:
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.



That’s the one good thing you have said, since all you did say is utterly False.

I will try once more in the spirit of the bible study forum, where we learn what others think, even if we disagree with them, rather than just argue across one another.

Is your physical body the old man of sin, that is now dead in Christ Jesus?