Why the pope could not possibly be the Antichrist

[marks]

What complicates it is that he makes a seven year peace treaty with Israel,

While this is a very popular idea, it's not actually what is written. He will make a covenant with 'many', but who that is isn't specified.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

While this is a very popular idea, it's not actually what is written. He will make a covenant with 'many', but who that is isn't specified.

Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,"

Much love!

This week is the Second Coming. A week of Celebration that had been expected 1990 years ago. That week was Atonement week. The Second Coming week is the marriage of the church week.

This week was at the middle point of Jacob's trouble, the last set of 7 years prophecied by Daniel.

 

[marks]

This week is the Second Coming. A week of Celebration that had been expected 1990 years ago. That week was Atonement week. The Second Coming week is the marriage of the church week.

This week was at the middle point of Jacob's trouble, the last set of 7 years prophecied by Daniel.

What I'm saying is that we should stay with what the passage says and not add to it. It tells a covenant, but does not say that it is with Israel.

Much love!

 

[Timtofly]

What I'm saying is that we should stay with what the passage says and not add to it. It tells a covenant, but does not say that it is with Israel.

Much love!

Thanks.

Since we do not know what happens during the Thunderings in Revelation, but we can be pretty sure about Christ being on the scene. With God in control, it would seem it is between Satan and the Lamb. Now if the many is on Satan's side and the Lamb is the he, or the many are on the Lamb's side and the he is Satan, can not be known right now.

As of today, it could go either way. If the church repents and the lost repent and a world wide revival starts, then not many will be here for Satan. If nothing happens and just the current status quo, then not many will stand for Christ.

We do not know, because God still says the church has the keys, and it is still the church's decision, but not for long. Listening to the Holy Spirit to get our will in lign with God's is very important. Also the Lord's prayer. It is for the church, and the church needs to decide: God or their own personal desires.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I may not agree he is a renegade Jew, but I do agree that he cannot and will not be a pope. The beast is described as military empire unparalleled in human history; one greater than anything that has ever come before it, and which will attain territory by military conquest:

After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. (Daniel 7:7)

Horns and teeth are the means by which animals kill and destroy, and "stomping the residue with its feet" is likely a reference to what will become of the nations that are conquered by military means; they will so utterly be brought to destruction that they will cease to exist as separate nation-states.

I have a hard time believing a pope could pull such a thing off. The Antichrist will be primarily a military & political leader, not a spiritual one.

While I don't really believe that a pope will be the antichrist, there actually have been military popes in the past that lead armies. You might find some of the history of the early Roman Catholic church enlightening (though reading the available historical records is a bit tedious.)

 

[Dcopymope]

The word "Antichrist" is a term thats been used to death to refer to some big bad Thanos like villain that makes an appearance in the future. But in Revelation, there is no such one character, there are THREE. In Revelation, there is the first beast that rises out of the bottomless pit, the second beast that rises out of the earth also called the "false prophet", and the "dragon", which is the devil. the last days are not going to play out like people assume it will.

 

[marksman]

For some strange reason, all the Protestant reformers decided that the pope (or nowadays the papacy) was this Antichrist. The Seventh Day Adventist Church followed suit. While this may have helped them to separate from the Catholic Church, this was not something which they derived from a study of the Scriptures. But there are multiple biblical reasons why the pope – the bishop of Rome and the head of the Catholic church – cannot possibly be the Antichrist.

Prophecies pertaining to the Antichrist are found primarily in the books of Daniel and Revelation, with some references in the Prophets and the Gospels and Epistles. The Antichrist (also called “the Little Horn”, “the Man of Sin, “the Son of Perdition” , “the Beast”, and several other names and titles must be a renegade Jew who has full access to the future temple at Jerusalem, where he will literally sit claiming to be God (2 Thess 2:4). He must also present himself to Orthodox Jews as their long-awaited Jewish Messiah. The Greek word antichristos means one who is both against Christ and come in place of Christ.

None of the characteristics of the Antichrist fit any popes, particularly the fact that he is the supreme dictator and controller of the world. The popes had controlled Europe at one time, but they were never dictators over the whole world of humanity. And that in itself should have been sufficient to refute the false idea that the pope (or papacy) is the Antichrist.

God has provided us with an overview of the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist in Revelation 13 (13 being a very fitting number for him because of its evil connotation).

THE BLASPHEMOUS KINGDOM OF THE ANTICHRIST WILL ARISE IN THE FUTURE
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

THE ANTICHRIST IS BEASTLY, VICIOUS, AND PREDATORY
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:...

THE ANTICHRIST RECEIVES HIS POWER AND AUTHORITY FROM SATAN
...and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

THE WORLD IS ENAMOURED WITH THE ANTICHRIST
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

THE WORLD WORSHIPS SATAN AND THE ANTICHRIST FOR 42 MONTHS
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ARCH BLASPHEMER OF GOD AND CHRIST
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

THE ANTICHRIST IS THE ENEMY OF THE TRIBULATION SAINTS
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:...

THE ANTICHRIST WILL RULE OVER ALL THE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD
...and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

THE WHOLE UNBELIEVING AND UNGODLY WORLD WORSHIPS HIM
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

THE SAINTS MUST BE PREPARED FOR PERSECUTION AND MARTYRDOM
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

THE FALSE PROPHET IS ALLIED WITH THE ANTICHRIST TO DAZZLE THE WORLD
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION IS AN ANIMATED IDOL OF THE ANTICHRIST
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

First of all thanks for that. Explained simply and concisely.

Second I am going to miss out on all this because I am left-handed so I won't get the mark of the beast. How beastly.

Saying the Pope is the real deal gives people something to talk about. When they get bored with that they will think up someone else.

It would be nice if God told me who the beast was then I could sell the information online and die a millionaire. And if anyone tried to cash in on my information I would give him a mark that would be really beastly.

Anyway here is my prediction for the beast. The next Democratic president of the United States. What a beast of a thought!!!

P.S. I had to cut out number 16 because there were too many words.

 

[Timtofly]

First of all thanks for that. Explained simply and concisely.

Second I am going to miss out on all this because I am left-handed so I won't get the mark of the beast. How beastly.

Saying the Pope is the real deal gives people something to talk about. When they get bored with that they will think up someone else.

It would be nice if God told me who the beast was then I could sell the information online and die a millionaire. And if anyone tried to cash in on my information I would give him a mark that would be really beastly.

Anyway here is my prediction for the beast. The next Democratic president of the United States. What a beast of a thought!!!

P.S. I had to cut out number 16 because there were too many words.

What does having a left hand do with a head? Left handed people do not have a head?

John says the beast on land, still has a dragon voice. That one aspect betrays the beast as a dragon. Can you make any money on that fact? This man with two horns like Pan has already made money in the literary and media realm. Pan, pied piper, Peter Pan, even PPE. Even CS Lewis greeted the children into Narnia with a faun. Many have made money off of the fact already.

 

[marksman]

What does having a left hand do with a head? Left handed people do not have a head?

John says the beast on land, still has a dragon voice. That one aspect betrays the beast as a dragon. Can you make any money on that fact? This man with two horns like Pan has already made money in the literary and media realm. Pan, pied piper, Peter Pan, even PPE. Even CS Lewis greeted the children into Narnia with a faun. Many have made money off of the fact already.

hallo, Timtofly. I hope you are having a nice day.

 

[Brakelite]

First of all thanks for that. Explained simply and concisely.

Second I am going to miss out on all this because I am left-handed so I won't get the mark of the beast. How beastly.

Saying the Pope is the real deal gives people something to talk about. When they get bored with that they will think up someone else.

It would be nice if God told me who the beast was then I could sell the information online and die a millionaire. And if anyone tried to cash in on my information I would give him a mark that would be really beastly.

Anyway here is my prediction for the beast. The next Democratic president of the United States. What a beast of a thought!!!

P.S. I had to cut out number 16 because there were too many words.

You know the old story about the preacher caught in the flood asking God for help but he turned away all the help God sent right? Ever thought that maybe God has already told you through others who Antichrist is but you didn't believe it? After all, I don't think we should expect God to speak to us audibly when He's already given so much detail already in His word. As Enoch posted, there are at least 10 or more specific identifying points that God did not reveal to us that we be confused. The problems with interpreting or understanding those characteristics or criteria are our own unwillingness to accept the biblical testimony and make up our own prophetic scenario. The futuristic paradigm, though attested to be Biblical truth, cannot possibly be proved as such because the entire thing is speculative from beginning to end... And it's still "future"... It hasn't happened yet. Whereas the historicist paradigm presents verifiable evidence... History... Actual historical events, people, that do line up in harmony with the prophetic warnings. Even you, Enoch, and others freely testify to the Catholic Church role and her many teachings and practices and history that make her a candidate for the fulfillment of many of what you both classroom is yet future... Yet why? Answer. Because you know she has already fulfilled those specs in the past... And continues to do so if not in practice them in policy which clearly points to history repeating. Why not take the obvious step and declaring the papacy as the Antichrist seeing she h fulfills all the criteria... Most recognise she is Antichrist in nature... Why not in person?

 

[Bobby Jo]

... freely testify to the Catholic Church role and her many teachings and practices and history that make her a candidate for the fulfillment ... and declaring the papacy as the Antichrist seeing she h fulfills all the criteria. ...

It seems to me that we all ponder the world around us, but a wise person doesn't spout his ignorant suppositions. He waits until he has some substantiation.

Thus not only your ignorance, but your slanders.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Gonna have to disagree. I dont see a superior governing body to the UN simply springing up in a proverbial night and rendering UN worthless. It will certainly still be relevant when this is all happening

It might be worth considering that in August of 1993, FIVE more Nations were Nominated to the Permanent Membership of the Security Council:

Current Membership on the Security Council:

1. U.S.
2. U.K.
3. France
4. Russia
5. China

Nominated for Membership on the Security Council:

1. Germany -- economic power
2. Japan -- economic power
3. Brazil -- regional representative for S. America
4. Nigeria -- regional representative for Africa
5. India -- regional representative for the Near East

“The Road To Reform: Towards A New Clarity,” U.N. Chronicle, UMI, Vol. 30, Issue 4, December 1993, pp. 45-46​

It would seem according to the numbers, we have the Ten Toes & Ten Horns/Diadems.

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... and by the way, according to my best understand of Prophetic Scripture, -- which is Scripturally based, validated by Scripture --, it appears that we crossed the threshold into the 42 month Tribulation (Rev. 13:5), (NOT SEVEN YEAR which is a butchering of Daniel 9), when Trump recognized Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel, some two years ago.

And that suggests that we have some 12 months until we can't buy or sell, and a subsequent 6 months until Global Thermonuclear war. So have you prepared you BAG, PURSE, and SWORD (Ref. Lke 22:35-36)?

If not, there may be difficult times ahead.
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

Gonna have to disagree. I don't see a superior governing body to the UN simply springing up in a proverbial night and rendering UN worthless. It will certainly still be relevant when this is all happening

You know, there's something that most people aren't aware of, certainly in the U.S., and that's the invasive presence of U.N. interference. Specifically, most people aren't aware that there are some twenty-ish U.N. claims on what they call World Heritage Sites. Also the U.N. dictates how hazardous materials are to be transported within the continental U.S., which exceeds the authority of the Department of Transportation (DOT).

So when I ship hazardous materials, it's according to U.N. Requirements, -- not DOT.
Bobby Jo

 

[Davy]

What I'm saying is that we should stay with what the passage says and not add to it. It tells a covenant, but does not say that it is with Israel.

Much love!

It's actually a "league" (chabar-no.2266) that he makes, and it's about the restoring of the old 'covenant' worship with sacrifices.

Dan 11:21-23
21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.

22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant.

23 And after the league made with him he shall work deceitfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people.
KJV

Many scholars assume that was historically about Antiochus and the pact he and Ptolemy made, but in final about the Antichrist for the end of this world. Thus they also assume the "small people" is about a small army Antiochus used at the first. Not what this is about though. Antiochus only fulfills it as a type, and not all the prophetic parameters.

After some dealings, the "vile person" returns to Jerusalem...

Dan 11:28
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
KJV

Right there we learn the old covenant is established, and he is against it, but has not yet ended the old covenant sacrifices and placed the abomination idol yet.

For the end, this shows the "league" is not what is confirmed. The "league" is an agreement to re-establish the old covenant at the end, which is what the Dan.9:27 idea of confirming (make strong) the covenant is actually about.

Antiochus IV served as a blueprint for the Antichrist at the end, but in Antiochus' time the daily sacrifices and old covenant worship was still going on. For the end, in Antichrist's time, that will need to be established again in Jerusalem. And that's when the confirming the covenant idea will apply.

 

[Phoneman777]

For some strange reason, all the Protestant reformers decided that the pope (or nowadays the papacy) was this Antichrist.

Hey there, Enoch111, I see you're still fighting the good fight of faith...your faith in Jesuit Futurism ! It's understandable why you can't see what the entire Protestant world once saw so clearly...how could you? In the very first sentence of this post, you say it is "some strange reason" for why they believed what they did. I would encourage you to investigate why this belief was universal. I don't have an earned MDiv, but what I do have is an understanding of what makes Jesuit Futurism and Jesuit Preterism tick so that I can expose the errors of them.

For instance, you deny the existence of the "day/year" principle in prophecy by subjectively claiming that Daniel's 70 Weeks are "seventy sevens of years" (although you know full well they can be just as easily "seventy sevens of days"). By this, you reject Historicism's use of the "day/year" principle in Revelation which identifies therein several symbolic references to the 1,260 year reign of the Papal Antichrist from its inception in 538 A.D to "deadly wound" in 1798 A.D.

Do you remember my response? I showed you that the 70 Weeks is a prophetic time period that is "cut off" from something..but what? Obviously, the only thing that qualifies is another prophetic time period, right? What's the only other prophetic time period that could possibly qualify?

• What's the only other prophetic time period which caused Daniel so much confusion in chapter 8 that Gabriel had to come in chapter 9 and use the 70 Weeks prophecy to explain it?
• What's the only other prophetic time period that's antecedent to the 70 Weeks?
• What's the only other prophetic time period that is connected grammatically to the 70 Weeks?

The 2,300 Days!! And since we cannot possibly cut off "seventy sevens of years" from 2,300 Days, the 70 Weeks can only be understood as "seventy sevens of days" - which firmly establishes the "day/year" principle in prophecy and establishes the depiction of the Papacy's 1,260 Year reign symbolically in Revelation, the most symbolic book of the Bible. Therefore, we have every reason to believe Spurgeon's words:

"It is the bounden duty of every Christian to pray against Antichrist, and as to what Antichrist is, no sane man ought to raise the question. If it be not the POPERY in the church of Rome, there is nothing in the world that can be called by that name. If there were to be issued a hue and cry for Antichrist, we should certainly take up this church on suspicion, and it would certainly not be let loose again, for it so exactly answers the description."​

 

[Enoch111]

Hey there, Enoch111, I see you're still fighting the good fight of faith...your faith in Jesuit Futurism

Since we can easily ignore Jesuit Futurism and go to biblical futurism, my beliefs are based strictly in biblical futurism and are solidly supported by Scripture.

You, on the other hand, must turn Scripture on its head to claim that the papacy --which has existed for over 1,600 years -- is the Antichrist. Especially since God gives the Antichrist (the Beast, the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition) NO MORE THAN 42 MONTHS to have control over the whole world. The papacy has never had -- and never will have -- total control over the world of humanity.

But notice what it says in Revelation 13:4-7:
4 And they worshipped the dragon [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast [THE ANTICHRIST]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? ["him" = an individual, not a system]
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [42 months = 1260 days = 3 1/2 years = time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time (6 months) = first half of Daniel's 70th week]
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven...
7 ...and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. [that speaks of all the inhabitants of the world]

As you can see, your mistaken ideas are REFUTED by Scripture, not Jesuit Futurism. Since the Mark of the Beast is in the future, so is the reign of the Antichrist for 3 1/2 years. So it's now time for you to give up your VAIN HISTORICISM and turn to biblical futurism.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... which gave power unto the beast [THE ANTICHRIST] ...

Don't ya just hate it when people ignorantly assign fulfillment when they have no clue?

Here @Enoch111 mistakenly calls the BEAST the Antichrist, when in fact the BEAST is merely the platform for the antichrist, -- which is called the False Prophet.

Now I can EASILY explain what the BEAST actually is, -- down to why the LION is the Mouth; why the LEOPARD (actually a TIGER) is the Body; and why the BEAR is the feet; and identify each of the TEN HORNS and SEVEN HEADS.

But ignorant people make blanket assertions without ANY explanation as to the FULL DEPICTIONS. They pick and choose what they think they can explain and avoid what they can't, -- and they CAN'T more than they "CAN" (and I use that term loosely).

Bobby Jo

 

[Enoch111]

Here @Enoch111 mistakenly calls the BEAST the Antichrist, when in fact the BEAST is merely the platform for the antichrist, -- which is called the False Prophet.

How can the Beast be a *platform* when he is clearly identified as a man in Revelation 13 and thus -- the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition?

 

[Joseph77]

How can the Beast be a *platform* when he is clearly identified as a man in Revelation 13 and thus -- the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition?

? hmmm...
? >. "tradition" ? i.e. bringing / making a lot of false trails to lead away from knowing the truth ?