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blessedhope

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And Why Do Some Teach that the Church will Endure the Tribulation?

From TRIUMPHANT RETURN
by Grant R. Jeffrey


Several incorrect premises have caused some to reject the pretribulation Rapture and accept the position called the "postribulation Rapture." The first premise is an emotional contention that it would be unfair for the modern Church to escape to heaven scot free to escape the martyrdom that other believers have experienced. While it is easy to understand such an emotion, it would be wrong to deny the doctrine of the pretribulation Rapture on this basis alone. The reality is that while many Christians have endured tremendous persecutions and tribulations, untold millions of believers have lived out their lives in times of peace. Furthermore, all of those Christians who died in either peace or persecution throughout history have already escaped the Great Tribulation.

An underlying attitude of many critics is their inorrect and unscriptural belief that the Church will somehow be purified by enduring the wrath of the Antichrist. However, the Scriptures declare that we are purified solely by the completed work of Christ on the Cross. If the Lord delays His return much longer, the rising tide of persecution of Christians affect the Church across the world. However, this will not constitute the Tribulation period which will be characterized by the wrath of God poured out from heaven on the unrepentant sinners during the final seven years of this age. Some critics have claimed that those who teach the hope of the pretribulation rapture are leaving Christians unprepared for the possibility of the coming persecution of the Tribulation period. However, in thirty-five years of teaching Bible prophecy, I have not witnessed pretribulation Rapture teachers instructing Christians that they are immune from end-time persecution. The prophecy teachers, myself included, who believe God promises that Christians will escape "wrath of God" in the Tribulation often warn believers that persecution is coming, even in North America, if the Lord tarries much longer. However, the postribulation Rapture position can rob the Church of her blessed hope. Jesus promised, "I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Revelation 3:10).

The second and more important reason why some are teaching that the Church will be present during this terrible time is the failure to distinguish between God's plan for Israel and His plan for the Church, especially in the prophecy revealed by Christ in Matthew 24. They often acknowledge that there is strong biblical evidence for a pretribulation Rapture; however, they inevitably come back to their interpretation of Matthew 24, which seems to indicate that the Rapture follows the events of the Great Tribulation.

In the passage in Matthew 24, Christ is on the Temple Mount explaining to His Jewish disciples the events that will occur in Israel and in other nations that will lead to the return of Christ as their Jewish Messiah. The disciples' question that Jesus was answering concerned the coming of Israel's long-promised Kingdom, not the coming of Christ for His Church (which they did not even know about). It is easy to forget that, at this point, before the crucifixion of our Lord and the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, there was no such thing as a Christian Church. If you had told one of the disciples during the week before Christ's crucifixion that someday there would be an organization based on Christ's teachings, called the Church, and that 99 percent of its members would be uncircumcised Gentiles who would follow neither Jewish law nor offer Temple sacrifices, he would probably have fallen off his chair in shock and disbelief. One of the classic mistakes in interpretation is to take this conversation between Christ and His Jewish disciples concerning the messianic kingdom and read back into it the reality of the Christian Church which did not come into existence until the Jews rejected Christ and God breathed life into His Body of believers.

Since Christ does not mention the Church to His disciples in this conversation, the plain interpretation is that Israel is the primary focus of the Prophecy of Matthew 24. Matthew 24 speaks of the Great Tribulation, and beginning at verse 15, Christ states that the Antichrist will set up the "abomination of desolation" (a supernatural statue of the Antichrist) to be worshiped in the Temple. In verses 40 and 41, Jesus says, "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." A vital question for students of the Bible is the identity of these people who "shall be taken." Does this prophecy refer to the Church or does it reveal God's plans for the Tribulation saint who become believers after the Rapture?

This chapter tells us that at the end of the Great Tribulation, God will send His angels and "they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (verse 31). These "elect" are the people who become believers during the Great Tribulation of three and one-half years. This gathering together is not the Rapture. This gathering of Tribulation believers takes place at the end of the Tribulation, whereas the Rapture of the Church occurs sometime prior to the beginning of the Great Tribulation when Antichrist sets himself up as "God" in the Temple. Notice that the angels "gather the elect" (verse 31), whereas, at the time of the Rapture, "The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16--17). This gathering of the "elect" Tribulation saints will occur at the conclusion of three and one-half years --- a period of time for which there are the most detailed prophecies found in the Bible.

The Bible describes many Tribulation events that must occur prior to the "gathering" of the Tribulation saints and thus, it cannot be correctly described as "imminent." These facts have caused many scholars to believe that this "gathering" is, therefore, a different event than the "Rapture" of the Church. However, when we turn our attention to the coming of Christ for His Church, we find that there are no warnings or signals given to indicate the time of the Rapture. The Rapture can literally occur at any time.

The third reason postribulationist writers have attacked the pretribulation Rapture doctrine by claiming that it cannot be true because no Church writer or Reformer ever taught this doctrine until approximately 170 years ago until it was introduced by John Darby, a Plymouth Brethren. Their argument that no one ever saw this "truth" throughout eighteen hundred years of Church history has been very effective, causing many Christians to abandon their belief in the pretribulation Rapture. The only problem is that their assertion that no one in the early Church taught the pretribulation Rapture has been found to be incorrect.

Obviously the truth about the time of the Rapture can be found only in Scripture. The Protestant Reformation was based essentially on this return to the authority of the Bible. The Latin phrase sola Scriptura, meaning "Scripture alone" became the rallying cry of the Reformers who ignored centuries of tradition and church councils in their insistence that truth could only be discovered in the Word of God. While the resolution of this issue must be based on our interpretation of Scripture, it is important to answer the errors of our opponents, who disparage "the blessed hope" of the Rapture with misinformation about the modern rediscovery of the truth about the pretribulation Rapture.

A Discovery that the Pretribulation Rapture Was Taught in the Early Church

During the summer of 1994, after more than a decade of searching, I discovered several fascinating manuscripts that contain clear evidence of the teaching of the pre-tribulation rapture in the early church.

Ephraem's Teaching on the Pretribulation Rapture

For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. (On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, by Ephraem the Syrian, A.D. 373)

The early Christian writer and poet, Ephraem the Syrian, (A.D. 306 - 373) was a major theologian of the early Byzantine Eastern Church. He was born near Nisbis, in the Roman province of Syria, near present-day Edessa, Turkey. Ephraem's fascinating teaching on the Antichrist has never been published in English until I wrote FINAL WARNING in 1995. Some scholars suggested that this manuscript was written several centuries later (5th or 6th century) but definitely before the birth of Islam in 622. However William Bousset, one of the greatest scholars on ancient eschatology, concluded in his book The Antichrist Legend that it was written by Ephraem the Syrian before A.D. 373.1 Andrew R. Anderson wrote in his book Alexander's Gate that he accepted the early date as being valid.2

This critically important prophecy manuscript from the fourth century of the Church era reveals a very clear statement about the pretribulational return of Christ to take His elect saints home to heaven to escape the coming Tribulation. For additional details read the article Examining an ancient Pre-tribulation Rapture statement on this web site.

1. William Bousset, The Antichrist Legend, trans. A. H. Keane (London: Hutchinson & Co., 1896)

2. Andrew R. Anderson, Alexander's Gate: Gog and Magog and the Enclosed Nations. Monographs of the Mediaeval Academy of America, no. 5. (Cambridge, MA.: Mediaeval Academy of America, 1932)

*The above is an excerpt taken from Grant Jeffrey's fascinating new release,

Triumphant Return
 

keras

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The theory of a pre-trib rapture is a Satanic lie.
All who believe that God will take them out this world without any testing of their faith, are very mistaken. The last days will call for the endurance of the saints. Revelation 13:9
 

blessedhope

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And from on of the best works of art on this forum> The theory of a pre-trib rapture is a Satanic lie.>
We Are Assured That We Will Rise To Meet Christ
"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first." (I Thessalonians 5:16). There are three distinct sounds mentioned by Paul that will occur at the moment of Christ's appearance in the sky.
First, the Lord's shout. What will he say? I do not know, perhaps He'll say what mom use to say when she woke us up; "Rise and shine!" That would be appropriate for those who were about ready to "shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matthew 13:44)!
Second, the voice of the archangel will join in. That would be Michael (Jude 9).
Finally, there will be the sound of the trumpet of God (I Corinthian 15:52). No one will sleep through that! Not even those who have been dead for two thousand years!

We Are Assured That We Will Be With Jesus Forever
"Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus shall we always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words." (I Thessalonians 4:17,18). Are you afraid of flying? Better get over it!
The phrase "caught up" is where we get the idea of "rapture" from. As far as a "secret rapture" that some believe in, I have absolutely no idea how it will be secret with all that trumpet blowing and shouting! At any rate, it involves all the righteous being "caught up" into the air to meet Jesus. It is then that He will take us home to that place He has prepared (I Corinthians 15:23-26). There we "shall always be with the Lord."

Do you think the Lord will come today? No? Then you better be sure you are ready (Luke 12:40)!
But this joker says the words in the bible is a satanic lie>>> very interesting>who is the satanic Lie?
 

blessedhope

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This joker> 13_9>>> If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. So this joker takes saints is what??? just like who is the Elect?? . This Guy is a real joker and very shallow and he throws these things out ! For his own lusts and thinks they mean real big things! Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
 

blessedhope

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And
On occasion, when discussing the atonement, Paul carefully differentiates between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, calling the former saints and the latter believers. It was the saints, the holy people of God in the Old Testament, who brought the Messiah and redemption into the world, eventually extending the blessings to the Gentiles.
This usage may be seen in 1 Corinthians 1:2, which is addressed to "those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy [saintsJewish Christians], together with all those [Gentiles] everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus ChristLord and ours." The same distinction is made in Ephesians 1:1: "to the saints [Jewish Christians] in Ephesus and the faithful [Gentiles] in Christ Jesus." Colossians is also addressed to "the holy and faithful brothers" in Christ.
Paul addresses the letter to all the Christians in Rome as saints ( Rom 1:7 , because Gentiles who, as wild olive branches have been grafted into the stem of Judaism, now share in the full relationship to that plant and are also saints ), but the Jewish Christians in Rome, who are to be recipients of a special contribution Paul collected among Gentile churches, are called "the saints" in distinction ( Rom 15:25-33 ).
It is informative in this regard that Paul refers to this same collection in 2 Corinthians 8:1-4 as a sharing by the Macedonian churches with "the saints, " not with the "other" saints. Paul's apprehension over whether the Jerusalem saints would accept such a contribution was based on the fact that Jewish Christians were being asked to accept the offering from Gentile Christians. The entire discussion of the issue in Acts 21 when Paul arrived in Jerusalem makes this clear.
Thus, although Gentile Christians are saints, too, because they were given access to the faith of Abraham and the people of the Old Testament, when redemptive history is discussed the Jews are specially designated the "saints" while the Gentiles are considered believers who were later admitted into this "holy" Jewish nucleus.
Enjoy
 

blessedhope

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And This Joker is calling the Church >> saints!> very loose Talk! not to be unexpected! for a joker. Enjoy
 

blessedhope

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I'm sure he will cry to this forum and say he was belittled > that is the way of cain. Enjoy
 

blessedhope

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And
I always find it hilarious dealing with post-tribbers. The ones I deal with can NEVER Biblically answer this question: What is the point of forcing the body of Christ to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble?? What is the purpose?? God is not the author of confusion and God specifically gives us the reason why the Jewish Nation of Israel will go through it:
“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.” Daniel 9:24 (KJV)
The angel, talking to the Jewish Daniel, said that the 70 weeks are determined upon THY people, the Jews. So according to God’s word, the Jewish Nation of Israel will go through their time to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Have you ever wondered why God calls it the time of JACOB’S trouble? (come now let us REASON together)

HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THIS APPLY TO THE BODY OF CHRIST??
  • To finish the transgression? – Christ said that it’s ALREADY FINISHED! (John 19:30 KJV)
  • To make an end of sins? – Christ was ALREADY made sin FOR US! (2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV)
  • To make reconciliation for iniquity? – We’ve ALREADY been reconciled! (2 Corinthians 5:18 KJV)
  • To bring in everlasting righteousness? – We ALREADY possess God’s righteousness! (Romans 3:21-22 KJV
  • To seal up the vision and prophecy? – We’re SEALED! (Ephesians 4:30 KJV)
  • To anoint the most Holy? – We’ve ALREADY been anointed and we’re bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh! Also, we are in Heaven worshipping the Lord BEFORE the anti-christ even hits the scene! (1 John 2:27/ Revelation 5:9-10 KJV)
So once again, what is the purpose of forcing the body of Christ in the Great Tribulation? Let’s start by addressing each kind of post-tribber and their heretical stances. When you narrow it down, there are only TWO kinds of post-tribbers and both kinds have significant delays in the common sense department.

Post-Tribber #1– The eternally secure Post-Tribber:
This is the post-tribber that believes in eternal security and applies it throughout the Great Tribulation. I sarcastically mock this kind of post-tribber by pinpointing the fact they’re practically going to “fake their way” through the Tribulation. I mean seriously, if you’re an eternally secure post-tribber, what is the point of going through the Great Tribulation? Especially when you believe that you can worship the beast, get his name, mark, and number and STILL BE ETERNALLY SECURE AND GO TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE! Talk about diplomatic immunity!
The Bible is quite clear when it says that people who receive the Mark will not enter into Heaven:
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4 (KJV)
Now, all eternally secure Post-Tribbers attempt to avoid acknowledging this blasphemous belief by saying that “No REAL Christian would worship the beast, etc.” However they can’t provide chapter and verse in the Holy Bible that specifically states that “REAL” Christians in the body of Christ are somehow “constrained” from worshipping the beast, getting his name, number, or mark. But this issue is no surprise since all Post-Tribbers cannot provide chapter and verse for the body of Christ being present in the Great Tribulation to begin with. The eternally secure Post-tribber is going to “endure to the end” when there’s nothing for them to endure! Maybe just for fun, they can see if they can endure until the end of their physical lives, but the Apostle Paul had the exact opposite attitude regarding playing earthly games of survival.
“For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:” Philippians 1:23 (KJV)
So once again, what is the point of forcing the body of Christ in the Great Tribulation?? I’ve heard several pathetic answers for the eternally secure Post-Tribbers in my past:
 

mjrhealth

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What would you do if Christ required you to be here during teh tribulation, ? He said to be ready, where is our faith. God always makes a way. if we should be here, so be it, if He takes us home so be it, why are so many people afraid that they are preparing to escape. We have to be in Him just as Moses was in the Arc during the flood, God takes care of His children.
 

keras

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I always find it hilarious dealing with post-tribbers. The ones I deal with can NEVER Biblically answer this question: What is the point of forcing the body of Christ to go through the time of Jacob’s trouble?? What is the purpose?? Quote blessedhope

Firstly I ask that you post the source of your cut and paste posts.

The purpose of making everyone go through the coming times of trouble, is simply to test your faith. There are so many scriptures about this, I leave it up to you to find them.
Do you expect to go to heaven without any trials or testing? All the saints until now have been tried, some unto death. Are you different or special?

Your error of thinking God has another plan for Israel and the Church is taken away, is completely against Bible truth. There is only one people of God. John 10:16, John 17:22-23, Galatians 3:26-29
 

blessedhope

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And>What would you do if Christ required you to be here during teh tribulation>That's Mans thinking >so what can I say to that?
 

blessedhope

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And> why are so many people afraid that they are preparing to escape>>> Do you read and understand the bible ???? God says Jacobs troubles are going to be SHEER HELL ON EARTH! but I see you missed it in the bible!
 

blessedhope

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And whats that all about>We have to be in Him just as Moses was in the Arc during the flood, God takes care of His children.>Yes He does >Look for the Blessed Hope!> its in your bible >you should read it some day.
 

mjrhealth

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And whats that all about>We have to be in Him just as Moses was in the Arc during the flood, God takes care of His children.>Yes He does >Look for the Blessed Hope!> its in your bible >you should read it some day.
You could just ask Jesus, it isnt that hard. Again what if you are here during teh tribulation, will you loose faith, what If Jesus has purpose for you, would you rebel. We are supposed to be His servants doing His bidding, not trying to escape everytime things get hard, one doenst need faith whn life is simple.