Women's history in the Church?

[Mike Dwight]

How do we see women's roles in the Church and how did the Church shape women's roles outside the Church? You could break this down by timeperiod and denomination. 200 ad to 500 ad in the formative Chalcedonian Christianity, with slight competition in Coptic Egypt, or Armenian monosophyte/miasyphite. Women were not allowed clergy, women had a more open role than later however. Considering John's account of 'cast the first stone' and Costantine marrying a common dancer and outlawing adultery. Early churches were dedicated to wives. The women of the nations I believe at that point were not asked of the same things later.
In 800 ad to 1500 ad there was mostly Catholic control. Women were expected to be mothers and aprtners still but a new higher position is held for the convent and the Nun, the clergy enjoys this status. The Orthodox Bishops from each country would generally have to report with the Emperor or each other, but not the Pope who held power. Women were expected to not take any position of power which is a roman tradition, from the times that Patricians held life and death decisions over all family members. Women of different catholic nations would be selected by the Pope at the age of 4 to be married to other Kingdom's ruler also aged 4 years old and this was to create a new Roman Empire of one powerful family under the Pope. Mary was sanctified as a role model 'blessed among women' for her servitude, who has but a few lines of biblical record to this effect. In the 1500 to 1900 even catholic countries had to begin following the new Model of Protestantism, such as Maria of Austria and her daughter Marie Antoinette in powerful noble women of less conservative position, as the French revolution hated her excess and court of gentlemen bodyguards. The 1900 to present global church wishes women in clergy and to choose whatever occupations they prefer and does not direct women's roles outside Church either.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Bible lays out the roles women pretty clearly.

Here I see you dwelling more on secular than church rolls.

 

[Mike Dwight]

I don't know what you mean. Sometimes, people lived inside an archbishopric, a parish, which could be millions of acres, the Church owned a third of Europe perhaps in medieval times and history. Everything was a Church role. Are you saying they simply killed the women when it was Church government alone? In other areas, the King had a say in check and balance with the Church and other various interests. I did say the Catholics created Nuns as a unique tradition. I just found orthodox do have nuns. Calvin was the largest enemy to monastics in all the reformation and this elevation fell to homemakers.

 

[ScottA]

In the eyes of God, the role of women as compared to men is a manifestation (a likeness) of men as compared to God. God has given men and women different roles. The relationship roles are an example of man being take out of God, just as the women was taken out of the man in the creation. These are revelations, and not to be taken lightly. Much can be learned by noting the details of the comparison.

Just as the man is the head of the woman ("as Christ is the head of the church"), much of the roles played out in history offer similar insights. For instance, the role of women becoming the head of congregations, is a manifestation of the rejection of Christ being head over the church. In other words, if we are actually "bought with a price" and belong to Christ (and it is "no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us") we will conduct ourselves according to the roles appointed by God, as an example of Christ, being a man, as head. On the other hand, if we have not been "bought with a price" we will consider men and women as equals - which they are, except in the roles appointed by God. By this, we know who is "bought with a price", meaning: of Christ.

 

[Mike Dwight]

Ugh I had to delete my first reply, because, I mean, you're not even on topic. That's what always happens when I get on a forum. There's threads and under that posts, and it shouldn't have purple cheese on the moon unless the thread was purple cheese on the moon. The Church seemed prohibitive to dangerous roles in general. Boudicca is some obscure subject in the ancient past of Britain as a celtic revolt leader woman, near London , now all the Celts are up in Scotland. Women were supported homemakers. My other reply mentioned the replacement of the castrata with a normal, healthy upper register with a women's choir with protestant reformation. I commented on a singing instructor in the two girls' party in The Last Mohican. I doubt Nuns are still allowed a singing part, except very strange modern occasions. I heard Queen Anne was uniquely thought to be able to cure diseases by touch? Is that from the Anglican Church? Superstitiously have hands laid on by the Church Governess? What about education? I can't believe what tutelage afforded the Bible-readers, such as Queen Elizabeth I speaking 7 languages throughout Europe, yet Marie Antoinette would be said to have trouble with any letters or writing and any French communication. Which is more superstitious, Catholics or Orthodox, because I can't believe Orthodox Churches, cave paintings, 100 candles, its Part of the Ritual, light a candle? purposefully sing before they invented scales, don't forget , this is Old.

Well anyway, besides any sort of Queen, Queen Consort, or benefactor, since the time of Empress Theodora, OR the Nuns, what do you think of the modern practices? I tend to think women Pastors or officeholder's is like 60's equal opportunity garbage? Actually, Methodists and many had for years maybe the 20's, and now its in Europe, not the Catholics of course but I checked several Lutheran churches in Europe. Whatd it take to be a Witch burned anyway, be bossy? Presbyterians probably imploded with modernity, so "Under God's Power she Flourishes" got the largest university of all Men students all the way into the 70's, aw guess women got power for women doing fancy flourishing. Oh I almost forgot! What about Germany's dictator Angela Merkel the Lutheran Alliance leader, that is probably it, whatever it is. No one could remove her from power, not an invasion, nothing. Joan of Arc jumped up and heard from God , sure, but, how'd that involve the Church is basically the English-favoring Bishop burned her alive and then early 1900's Pope made her a Saint. Well the Pope helped King Henry cut up 3 wives to death, Greensleeves being some letter of his false charges of false offense on Elizabeth's mother. The Pope tends to have little regard.
Well, why is being the officiant, mixed in with women's capabilities and the 60's? Nobody thinks they're special, very often...? Light some candles, say some latin.

 

[marksman]

The biggest mistake the churches make about the roles of women is that they prefer to ignore the main teachings about male/female roles so that they can introduce their own take on things.

Having made an extensive study of the leadership in the New Testament church, one, pastors are not the leaders, the Elders are, and two, women are not the leaders because of Debra, Lydia, and Junias. Those three are brought up as validity for female Elders and leaders in the church. Those that claim this usually ignore Timothy and Titus.

In making women leaders, the church has taken on feminist rhetoric to justify ignoring scripture and made the church worse off as a result. Especially in the Pentecostal church where you find a 70-year-old man rich in knowledge and experience has to take orders from the pastor's wife who has not even reached the age of 40.

P.S. No one in the New Testament church was made an Elder if he was under 40 years of age, was not married and did not manage his household well.

 

[GodsBeloved11]

The Bible lays out the roles women pretty clearly.

Here I see you dwelling more on secular than church rolls.

The roles of wives are laid out

The roles of women in the church are laid out

Nothing about women outside of church and home settings

 

[GodsBeloved11]

Unless you mean the bits that apply to all women (single or married) which is to be humbled , modest, chaste and keeping their home well.