Would You Still...

[bbyrd009]

For I am a believer that we will each be as close to God in Eternity as we showed Him down here...our choices here...will reflect how close we dwell with Him there.

if you reflect on your pov of "there" and ID it a little better, label it, and then ID this "we" a little more, make it an "I" for personal reflection purposes, you might come to see how that all falls apart, sorry. Have you been sold on a false impression that the part of you that is separate--"I"--could possibly become immortal and go to some place deemed "heaven?" when that is the part that is supposed to die?

Do yourself a favor imo, and go read the tenets of the Cult of Sol Invictus. Bc that is all that is, Helen

 

[Helen]

Have you been sold on a false impression that the part of you that is separate--"I"--could possibly become immortal and go to some place deemed "heaven?" when that is the part that is supposed to die?

Do yourself a favor imo, and go read the tenets of the Cult of Sol Invictus. Bc that is all that is, Helen

Hey there.
No 'being sold' something infers I got it through 'buying a lie'.
The "I" that I am inside...the real only "me" doesn't "Possibly become immortal" it already is!!
The "me" that I am became alive on Aug 23rd 1964 when I finally saw all the God did to reconcile me to Himself through Jesus Christ..and the great price which was paid. Being overwhelmed with thanks to God and becoming a living part of His family. In a way...heaven for me started right there.
His Presence is Heaven.
But that is all by faith...as it was for Abraham...Abraham was known as "the friend of God." God Himself says "Abraham my friend " Yet in Hebrews 11 it says " These all died not having received The Promise ....but seeing it far off.
It says " Abraham looked for a City which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." He had a hope....he saw it by faith ..as we I do...the promise of a face to face reality of the promise. The fullness of all things.

 

[Helen]

Do yourself a favor imo, and go read the tenets of the Cult of Sol Invictus. Bc that is all that is, Helen

Haha! Phttt
So, who sold you that lemon!!!

 

[bbyrd009]

ok, don't bother then, and bam believe you are now an immortal too, if you like

 

[Helen]

ok, don't bother then, and bam believe you are now an immortal too, if you like

You miss understand...I DID bother...I went and read some...
I cannot find why you asked me to read it or why you felt it applied to me.
I have lost the connection.

You sound cross ...are you?

 

[Helen]

ok, don't bother then, and bam believe you are now an immortal too, if you like

I don't understand ...If His Spirit became one with my spirit when I first believed. And I was regenerated. How can that ever die?
How can it not be alive forever?

Unless you are angry and don't want to say.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't understand ...If His Spirit became one with my spirit when I first believed. And I was regenerated. How can that ever die?
How can it not be alive forever?

Unless you are angry and don't want to say.

no not angry at all. I'll be back for the top part when i get Word on it, assuming that happens

 

[bbyrd009]

You miss understand...I DID bother...I went and read some...
I cannot find why you asked me to read it or why you felt it applied to me.
I have lost the connection.

ok, prolly a lot of junk there too, i'll have to research some

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't understand ...If His Spirit became one with my spirit when I first believed. And I was regenerated. How can that ever die?
How can it not be alive forever?

21For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

which i don't mean for you to apply this to yourself necessarily, but understand that they knew God, too, and look what happened to them.

For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! Because of his great mercy he has granted us a new birth, resulting in an immortal hope through the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, from the dead

He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

and my guess (and remembrance) is that we get plenty of the first two, and never hear the third one much. Personally i would contemplate what is really meant @ "clothed with" or "put on," and also "immortal hope," iow notice how Scripture is dancing all around the bush of "becoming" without actually ever quite saying that, just like "Jesus returning" which also cannot be Quoted, except in English.

 

[Helen]

Okay..thanks, that helps me see better where you are coming from. :)

 

[Helen]

For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

Yes, that one is food for thought.
In fact that is a good one to "chew over" with my hubby. ( we do a lot of chewing lol )
I am asking myself why this carcass needs to become immortal??!!
Do we need it after now?
our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls...I thought we just shook it off as a dead skin and took on the new.

 

[Phoneman777]

...Love God even if there were no eternal life/heaven? I think of that often and would like to think I would still follow His precepts and His law to Agape others. After all-we are still blessed by him-most in the "free world" always have food, shelter and so on.
Would this ever change your Love for God? For myself, I can talk tough and say stuff like "Though He Slay me, I will trust Him" But...I do not think I even know my own heart enough to make such a decision like that. As of today? I would say yes, I would still love God. But would I really? How do you stop loving? Or, if you knew you were going to "hell", -- same question.
thanks and Bless you,
-nancy

I agree with Nancy wholeheartedly and along with her would continue to love and obey God --- and anyone who fails to answer in like manner needs to re-examine their estimation of God's Word.

Solomon says, "The way of the transgressors is hard". Do you believe the Word of God? Is that self-evident truth no longer true if eternal rewards are taken out of the equation? Nope, the way of the transgressor will always be the worst way and God's way the best way :)

 

[Nancy]

I agree with Nancy wholeheartedly and along with her would continue to love and obey God --- and anyone who fails to answer in like manner needs to re-examine their estimation of God's Word.

Solomon says, "The way of the transgressors is hard". Do you believe the Word of God? Is that self-evident truth no longer true if eternal rewards are taken out of the equation? Nope, the way of the transgressor will always be the worst way and God's way the best way :)

Good answer! To me, it seems that to NOT love God who blesses us so abundantly, is like only loving Him for what WE get out of it. Again, good answer!

 

[brakelite]

@"ByGrace" @bbyrd009 Without a body we are incomplete. In Genesis our creation revealed that it was the union of spirit and flesh that formed who we become...a living soul. There is no part of us that is immortal...our immortality is promised at the second coming when we are raised from the dead ...when once again the spirit is united with our glorified bodies and our experience of eternity with Jesus begins.

 

[brakelite]

21For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

which i don't mean for you to apply this to yourself necessarily, but understand that they knew God, too, and look what happened to them.

For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus, the Messiah! Because of his great mercy he has granted us a new birth, resulting in an immortal hope through the resurrection of Jesus, the Messiah, from the dead

He alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light. No one has ever seen Him, nor can anyone see Him. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

and my guess (and remembrance) is that we get plenty of the first two, and never hear the third one much. Personally i would contemplate what is really meant @ "clothed with" or "put on," and also "immortal hope," iow notice how Scripture is dancing all around the bush of "becoming" without actually ever quite saying that, just like "Jesus returning" which also cannot be Quoted, except in English.

I think some of us have a skewed perception of what eternal life, and immortality, actually mean. And I am not entirely sure of the difference myself. That we are promised eternal life is clear, but immortality, in the sense that God has immortality, is somewhat more doubtful. I know Paul says we should seek immortality,
Ro 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

(thus it is a gift and therefore no-one is naturally immortal; eternal torment therefore a myth)

1Co 15:53,54 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
but is such immortality we are to seek for, and receive as a gift as per the above, self-existent such as God alone possess, or shall we be forever dependant upon the loving mercy and grace of God for life and happiness? In other words, eternally needing to partake of the tree of life, and thus live forever? Genesis 3:22. Maybe such partaking of the tree of life is an annual feast...or part of the weekly Sabbath worship along with Sabbath lunch? (An SDA tradition for those not familiar)
I tend to believe a more dependant life, which is why I believe in annihilation of the wicked. Not being naturally immortal as many believe, man shall cease to exist because of the separation from the only source of life, God the Father.

 

[bbyrd009]

I know Paul says we should seek immortality,
Ro 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

(thus it is a gift and therefore no-one is naturally immortal; eternal torment therefore a myth)

that is a diff "immortal," prolly more like "incorruptible" i guess. Diff word at least.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/romans/2-7.htm

also interesting to note that it is by "remaining behind" that all that accrues :)

 

[bbyrd009]

our immortality is promised at the second coming when we are raised from the dead

or at least that is what you prefer to believe, but wadr you are forgetting that you went through a little ritual that in other forums you might likely insist is part and parcel with "salvation," right? And of course no one is counselled as to what Baptism really is, but then you are not a noob either bl. i know this is an initially scary cliff to peer over ok, but you are reading "stay here for the present" the way you prefer, and you English Bible was translated the same way ok. Go try and Quote what you just said and see bl.

 

[bbyrd009]

or shall we be forever dependant upon the loving mercy and grace of God for life and happiness? In other words, eternally needing to partake of the tree of life, and thus live forever?

hey if you're immortal, you're immortal right; you won't need God anymore
good point

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, that one is food for thought.
In fact that is a good one to "chew over" with my hubby. ( we do a lot of chewing lol )
I am asking myself why this carcass needs to become immortal??!!
Do we need it after now?
our mortal bodies are inhabited by immortal souls...I thought we just shook it off as a dead skin and took on the new.

dunno about that myself, but i guess we at least get a new name right, so annihilationism as we have it is kinda out

 

[brakelite]

or at least that is what you prefer to believe, but wadr you are forgetting that you went through a little ritual that in other forums you might likely insist is part and parcel with "salvation," right? And of course no one is counselled as to what Baptism really is, but then you are not a noob either bl. i know this is an initially scary cliff to peer over ok, but you are reading "stay here for the present" the way you prefer, and you English Bible was translated the same way ok. Go try and Quote what you just said and see bl.

Sorry bro, but I'm not sure what you are getting at here...a little cryptic. Can you elucidate further?
I get the death thing and resurrection with baptism, which is the 'here and now' statement of faith in our new found faith in and membership of the new kingdom. But the physical reality of that new birth we find at the second coming. I don't believe for one moment any spirit/soul rising to heaven at death. But I do believe in heaven, with its city, and a room there prepared for me, conditionally of course on my faithfulness.
I do get what you are saying in the post previous regards being left behind. Yep, rather be a wheat than a tare.