Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Mayflower]

Btw, I get lost with multiple posts, so if what would help to understand this is in the past posts, please remind. I start skimming when it goes over my head.

 

[Cooper]

Btw, I get lost with multiple posts, so if what would help to understand this is in the past posts, please remind. I start skimming when it goes over my head.

Are you people on the right thread?
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[Mayflower]

I thought Id ask about this verse here. @FluffyYellowDuck posted a thread involving it and wondered what it means. It is a hard verse. Thought it would go well with this discussion. Hopefully.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.

Well, this is the same God. I want to make sure I understand this, because our Father is close to the brokenhearted and loves justice.

 

[Cooper]

Well, this is the same God. I want to make sure I understand this, because our Father is close to the brokenhearted and loves justice.

The woman caught in adultery.​

The teachers of the Law were about to stone to death a woman caught committing adultery. They said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. What do you say?” Jesus replied, “Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her.” When they heard this, they all left, one by one, the older ones first. Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. He straightened up and said to her, “Where are they? Is there no one left to condemn you?”
“No one, sir,” she answered.
“Well then,” Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again.”

On the other hand, the god of the Jews says:-
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
Not to delay burial overnight — Deut. 21:23
The court must not let the sorcerer live — Ex. 22:17
Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Lev 20:9 KJV)

The God of the Jews is not the God of the New Testament, however the pre-incarnate Jesus was in the Old Testament as well and he does indeed heal the brokenhearted. You will find the Psalms are often prophetic. The Jews need to convert to Jesus, that is why he came, and we need to learn to distinguish between the two.
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[DuckieLady]

The woman caught in adultery.​

The teachers of the Law were about to stone to death a woman caught committing adultery. They said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. What do you say?” Jesus replied, “Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her.” When they heard this, they all left, one by one, the older ones first. Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. He straightened up and said to her, “Where are they? Is there no one left to condemn you?”

“No one, sir,” she answered.

“Well then,” Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again.”

On the other hand, this is the god of the Jews says:-

Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
Not to delay burial overnight — Deut. 21:23
The court must not let the sorcerer live — Ex. 22:17
Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Lev 20:9 KJV)

The God of the Old Testament is not the God of the New Testament.

For the sake of this, I disagree.

God didn't come down himself and write any of these laws. Moses had the ten commandments directly from God.

There's a reason Jesus came not to change the law, but to fulfill it and in his time he was correcting a lot of it. Look at the contrast between Exodus 21:24 and Matthew 5:38-42. Human behavior itself did evolve and this was a messed up time, with a lot of messed up people, and it was written in an time of people learning to be human and others being set apart.

God himself does not change.

“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed” (Malachi 3:6)

God himself provided a glimpse of his plans in the NT through Abraham and Isaac, that story being the precursor through what he had done through the son. And did we miss Jesus in the OT?

It's right there. (had to correct myself here this is an edit)

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, And shall call his name Immanuel.

The God of the OT wasn't viscous, evil, or condemning either.

“As I live, says the Lord, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.” (Ezekiel 33:11) Jonah whined about his prophecy not coming true when the Lord relented from sending calamity on the people of Nineveh because they neither “know their right hand from their left." (They were probably not that smart and God had patience.) Do you see the reassuring love and understanding of the father there?

On the other side of that coin, do people think the God of the OT was so strict he was just letting people drop for touching the Ark of the Covenant while the NT (same God) was just letting people do whatever?

Ananias dropped dead for lying to the Holy Spirit about money, and then next, his wife.

The character of the Lord has always been consistent. The character of mankind has not.

@Hidden In Him Look at that I finally got to it. I didn't plan on answering because I didn't want to get caught up in a tumbleweed, but here we are. lol

 

[Cooper]

For the sake of this, I disagree.

God didn't come down himself and write any of these laws. Moses had the ten commandments directly from God.

There's a reason Jesus came not to change the law, but to fulfill it and in his time he was correcting a lot of it. Look at the contrast between Exodus 21:24 and Matthew 5:38-42. Human behavior itself did evolve and this was a messed up time, with a lot of messed up people, and it was written in an time of people learning to be human and others being set apart.

God himself does not change.

“For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed” (Malachi 3:6)

God himself provided a glimpse of his plans in the NT through Abraham and Isaac, that story being the precursor through what he had done through the son. And did we miss Jesus in the OT?

It's right there. "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ." - Galatians 3:27NO, I GOT THAT WRONG BUT I'M LEAVING IT ANYWAY BECAUSE I LIKE IT. I'm thinking of a different one. I'll find it. (I don't know why I always mix up OT/NT chapters. ANYWAY.)

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, And shall call his name Immanuel.

The God of the OT wasn't viscous, evil, or condemning either.

“As I live, says the Lord, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.” (Ezekiel 33:11) Jonah whined about his prophecy not coming true when the Lord relented from sending calamity on the people of Nineveh because " “know their right hand from their left. (They were probably not that smart and God had patience.) Do you see the reassuring love and understanding of the father there?

On the other side of that coin, do people think the God of the OT was so strict he was just letting people drop for touching the Ark of the Covenant while the NT (same God) was just letting people do whatever?

Ananias dropped dead for lying to the Holy Spirit about money, and then next, his wife.

The character of the Lord has always been consistent. The character of mankind has not.

@Hidden In Him Look at that I finally got to it. I didn't plan on answering because I didn't want to get caught up in a tumbleweed, but here we are. lol

Then we have one Bible and two G/gods. The god of one nation or the God of the universe. I choose Christ, Saviour, Healer, Sanctifier and Coming King, to all who believe in Him.
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[DuckieLady]

Then we have one Bible and two G/gods. I choose Christ, Saviour, Healer, Sanctifier and Coming King.
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I mean I can only say what I have said. There isn't anything wrong with choosing Christ.

I choose the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And I don't deny the son because he was given to us and made us clean, but I rejoice and praise the father also, because Christ himself did. He himself is the one who said to pray to the father and he is the one himself who said, ‘Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!’”

And as I said, Isaiah 7:14 (OT) is where the Lord promises the sign of sending his son through the virgin Mary. We didn't switch Gods.

 

[Cooper]

I mean I can only say what I have said. There isn't anything wrong with choosing Christ.

I choose the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. And I don't deny the son because he was given to us and made us clean, but I rejoice and praise the father also, because Christ himself did. He himself is the one who said to pray to the father and he is the one himself who said, ‘Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!’”

And as I said, Isaiah 7:14 (OT) is where the Lord promises the sign of sending his son through the virgin Mary. We didn't switch Gods.

Father and Son are One, and neither are the destroyer. I'm turning in, but I suggest you focus on the giver of life rather than the one who demands the death of those who fail to keep his Mitzvot (not Gods) laws.
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[Mayflower]

My thought is Christ was needed to satisfy God's wrath. Jesus being sacrificed on the cross is a very unfair thing to have had to happen in my eyes, because He was sinless. So were sacrificial offerings of animals. And yet a sacrificial lamb provided a way just as Jesus Christ provided a final/complete way. He was resurrected by the same power that sent Him. The same God, three in one.

Scriptures on one God:

Isaiah 44:6 The LORD is Israel’s king and defender. He is the LORD of Armies. This is what the LORD says: I am the first and the last, and there is no God except me.

2. Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

3. 1 Kings 8:60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.

4. James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

5. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

6. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

7. 1 Chronicles 17:20 There is none like you, O LORD, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

8. Isaiah 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

9. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

20 Important Bible Verses About One God (Is There Only One God?)

 

[DuckieLady]

My thought is Christ was needed to satisfy God's wrath. Jesus being sacrificed on the cross is a very unfair thing to have had to happen in my eyes, because He was sinless. So were sacrificial offerings of animals. And yet a sacrificial lamb provided a way just as Jesus Christ provided a final/complete way. He was resurrected by the same power that sent Him. The same God, three in one.

Scriptures on one God:

Isaiah 44:6 The LORD is Israel’s king and defender. He is the LORD of Armies. This is what the LORD says: I am the first and the last, and there is no God except me.

2. Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.

3. 1 Kings 8:60 that all the peoples of the earth may know that the LORD is God; there is no other.

4. James 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

5. 1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

6. Isaiah 43:11 I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

7. 1 Chronicles 17:20 There is none like you, O LORD, and there is no God besides you, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

8. Isaiah 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

9. 1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

20 Important Bible Verses About One God (Is There Only One God?)

Just gonna leave this here for ya

we need a mic drop

 

[Brakelite]

The woman caught in adultery.​

The teachers of the Law were about to stone to death a woman caught committing adultery. They said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the very act of committing adultery. Moses commanded that such a woman must be stoned to death. What do you say?” Jesus replied, “Whichever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her.” When they heard this, they all left, one by one, the older ones first. Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. He straightened up and said to her, “Where are they? Is there no one left to condemn you?”
“No one, sir,” she answered.
“Well then,” Jesus said, “I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again.”

On the other hand, the god of the Jews says:-
Not to kill the murderer before he stands trial — Num. 35:12
The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24
The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14
The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20
The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10
The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22
Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23
Not to delay burial overnight — Deut. 21:23
The court must not let the sorcerer live — Ex. 22:17
Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17
Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Lev 20:9 KJV)

The God of the Jews is not the God of the New Testament, however the pre-incarnate Jesus was in the Old Testament as well and he does indeed heal the brokenhearted. You will find the Psalms are often prophetic. The Jews need to convert to Jesus, that is why he came, and we need to learn to distinguish between the two.
.

You don't seem to understand who either of them are. Jesus was the person through whom the Father spoke to Israel. Throughout all the OT. Jesus was the pre-incarnate Son of the OT GOD of Israel. It was Jesus who spoke to Moses on Sinai and commanded Moses to write them down. When Jesus became man He revealed that He was His Father's Son. Like Father like Son. The express image of the Father. There is no difference between the OT and NT Gods. They are one.

 

[Cooper]

You don't seem to understand who either of them are. Jesus was the person through whom the Father spoke to Israel. Throughout all the OT. Jesus was the pre-incarnate Son of the OT GOD of Israel. It was Jesus who spoke to Moses on Sinai and commanded Moses to write them down. When Jesus became man He revealed that He was His Father's Son. Like Father like Son. The express image of the Father. There is no difference between the OT and NT Gods. They are one.

You are right when you say this, "Jesus was the person through whom the Father spoke to Israel. Throughout all the OT. Jesus was the pre-incarnate Son of the OT GOD of Israel. It was Jesus who spoke to Moses on Sinai and commanded Moses to write them down. When Jesus became man He revealed that He was His Father's Son. Like Father like Son. The express image of the Father."

I often say the same myself, but you are not allowing for when the Israelites turned away from the I AM and worshiped idols and false gods. The Golden Calf marks the beginning of their apostasy and satanism period as recorded in the first five books. Tt is best to look forward to the Psalms and the Prophets where we can read once again of Jesus the I AM. May the Lord bless you and keep you.

Added: their apostacy period when they called their idols 'LORD' the Golden Calf for example, is well recorded in the four books of Kings and Chronicles.
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[Brakelite]

You are right when you say this, "Jesus was the person through whom the Father spoke to Israel. Throughout all the OT. Jesus was the pre-incarnate Son of the OT GOD of Israel. It was Jesus who spoke to Moses on Sinai and commanded Moses to write them down. When Jesus became man He revealed that He was His Father's Son. Like Father like Son. The express image of the Father."

I often say the same myself, but you are not allowing for when the Israelites turned away from the I AM and worshiped idols and false gods. The Golden Calf marks the beginning of their apostasy and satanism period as recorded in the first five books. Tt is best to look forward to the Psalms and the Prophets where we can read once again of Jesus the I AM. May the Lord bless you and keep you.

Added: their apostacy period when they called their idols Lord, is well recorded in the four books of Kings and Chronicles.
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I am well aware of their apostasy and venture to suggest their current sojourn as a nation as a people who are no longer the privileged caretakers of the oracles of God is permanent. Their house is no longer God's house, it has been left to them desolate and will remain so. Any attempts to rebuild it will be in vain if they expect God's blessing and presence within it.

 

[Cooper]

I am well aware of their apostasy and venture to suggest their current sojourn as a nation as a people who are no longer the privileged caretakers of the oracles of God is permanent. Their house is no longer God's house, it has been left to them desolate and will remain so. Any attempts to rebuild it will be in vain if they expect God's blessing and presence within it.

How far back does their apostacy go, and what lessons can we learn from this do you think?
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[Brakelite]

How far back does their apostacy go, and what lessons can we learn from this do you think?
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KJV 1 Corinthians 10:11-12
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Cooper]

KJV 1 Corinthians 10:11-12
11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Jesus told us no man can serve two masters. What do you think he meant by this?
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[Brakelite]

Jesus told us no man can serve two masters. What do you think he meant by this?
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There would be depths to anything Jesus says that would differ from person to person. What it means to and for me is that in order for me to live with the true Master, my greatest battle is against self. His saying may mean something else for you.

 

[Cooper]

There would be depths to anything Jesus says that would differ from person to person. What it means to and for me is that in order for me to live with the true Master, my greatest battle is against self. His saying may mean something else for you.

Jesus meant only one thing, and it is the same as he told the rich young ruler, and you know that. Don't let's play fast and lose with God, like Trump did with the American people.
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[Ronald Nolette]

Well no. I do agree with you that there are some who use the term "spiritual Israel" to refer to the church only. That's not my theology. When I use the term, I mean all those, whether Jew or Gentile, whether Old Testament or New, who truly embraced the Living God and sought to obey and serve Him with their lives; in short, the saved. I don't think using the term in reference to the church alone is correct either.

It is incorrect to use it to describe the church in any situation. Spiritual Israel is saved Israel and the spiritual church is the bride of Christ composed of spiritual Jews and spiritual gentiles who make up a new man where nationality is disregarded. The church is the church and Israel is Israel both physically and spiritually.

Yes, only the difference was, with ancient Israel the Living God Himself ruled over the nation directly, and arbitrated over matters of civil government through kings, judges and prophets. With the church, we have no nation, nor is our God fully in authority over any nation, so we abide by the laws of the land in which we live.

My apologies if I am getting off track, but I'm assuming I'm understanding you correctly : )

Theree are mnay more differences, but that is for a different thread.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Spiritual Israel is a reference to everyone who believes in Jesus.

Only by abusing the passages in the NT.

Spiritual Israel is saved Israel. The church is not Israel or spiritual Israel. We are the church. I hold this line hard, because of so many replacemtn theology minded concepts that swirl on these threads abundantly. And it is also biblically correct! The church in SCripture is never called spiritual Israel.