Your Thoughts: Are The NT/OT Gods "Different"?

[Hidden In Him]

Go to the Bible for demonology.

But your source is citing Albert Pike, and completely in line with his thinking. They hated the Jews, still do, and want to see them exterminated. This, Cooper, is the mindset and heart's desire of the Devil.

You are given over in heart and mind to the evil one, I'm afraid to say. I don't say it hatefully because mine is not a God of hate like yours is. But I warn you that you are following after an evil doctrine inspired by an evil god, and your eternity - if you should continue to subscribe to it for the rest of your life - will be to suffer at that evil god's hands after death.

Hope that doesn't happen, but I can't make the right choices for you. You will have to decide for yourself.

 

[Cooper]

But your source is citing Albert Pike, and completely in line with his thinking. They hated the Jews, still do, and want to see them exterminated. This, Cooper, is the mindset and heart's desire of the Devil.

You are given over in heart and mind to the evil one, I'm afraid to say. I don't say it hatefully because mine is not a God of hate like yours is. But I warn you that you are following after an evil doctrine inspired by an evil god, and your eternity - if you should continue to subscribe to it for the rest of your life - will be to suffer at that evil god's hands after death.

Hope that doesn't happen, but I can't make the right choices for you. You will have to decide for yourself.

The mindset and heart's desire of the Devil is to destroy Christ and his followers.

You have it the wrong way round.
.

 

[Cooper]

So your telling me that you believe God would have encouraged Abraham to use a pagan custom as a test of faith- seriously !!!!
Sorry your Passover explanation does not really confirm your point to me.
Thank you for answering my questions though.
Rita

Barbara, God was testing Abraham.

1. G‑d tells him to leave his homeland to be a stranger in the land of Canaan.3
2. Immediately after his arrival in the Promised Land, he encounters a famine.4
3. The Egyptians seize his beloved wife, Sarah, and bring her to Pharaoh.5
4. Abraham faces incredible odds in the battle of the four and five kings.6
5. He marries Hagar after not being able to have children with Sarah.7
6. G‑d tells him to circumcise himself at an advanced age.8
7. The king of Gerar captures Sarah, intending to take her for himself.9
8. G‑d tells him to send Hagar away after having a child with her.10
9. His son, Ishmael, becomes estranged.11
10. G‑d tells him to sacrifice his dear son Isaac upon an altar.12

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1324268/jewish/What-Were-Abrahams-10-Tests.htm
.

 

[Rita]

Barbara, God was testing Abraham.

1. G‑d tells him to leave his homeland to be a stranger in the land of Canaan.3
2. Immediately after his arrival in the Promised Land, he encounters a famine.4
3. The Egyptians seize his beloved wife, Sarah, and bring her to Pharaoh.5
4. Abraham faces incredible odds in the battle of the four and five kings.6
5. He marries Hagar after not being able to have children with Sarah.7
6. G‑d tells him to circumcise himself at an advanced age.8
7. The king of Gerar captures Sarah, intending to take her for himself.9
8. G‑d tells him to send Hagar away after having a child with her.10
9. His son, Ishmael, becomes estranged.11
10. G‑d tells him to sacrifice his dear son Isaac upon an altar.12

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1324268/jewish/What-Were-Abrahams-10-Tests.htm
.

So you think I am not aware that Abraham was being tested. That’s not what I have an issue with but I am still mulling things over and not sure I can explain it at the moment.
Rita

 

[Cooper]

So you think I am not aware that Abraham was being tested. That’s not what I have an issue with but I am still mulling things over and not sure I can explain it at the moment.
Rita

I am going to bed, so you can tell me tomorrow.
.

 

[Billy Evmur]

God is the same but His dealings with His people are different. The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[WaterSong]

Good link. Have you seen this?

Is Lucifer the God of Judaism
.

Fascinating. I would think the Harold Rosenthal in that link is the same for which there is the Rosenthal fellowship?
Speaking of HR, have you read this? The Hidden Tyranny

Lucifer = Latin; Light Bringer.
I wonder if Lucifer is a derivative of the Greeks myth surrounding Prometheus?

Edit to add: While I don't ascribe giving credibility to the host, "Jesus is Savior", this free PDF of the book, Satan, Prince of This World, may interest you as well.
Namely because the Preface, below, is timely to what Christians have witnessed happening in America for a great many years now. Escalating in a zeal to destroy all decency in any facet in our society. I find it interesting that a work this old would make note of that being an agenda and speaking from decades past to what is happening now with great vigor. And sadly enough, by law.
The PDF is 92 pages.

SATAN, Prince of This World - Jesus-is-Savior.com preview / satan-prince-of-this-world-jesus-is-savior-com.pdf / PDF4PRO

PREFACE
When the author of this book, Commander W.J.G. Carr died on October 2,
1959, he left this
book in
manuscript form along with many scribbled notes, reference books, half formulated thoughts, etc. His last wish
was that the book be finished and published in order that all men might know of the plot which exists to wipe
out every trace of decency in the world and all civilizations as we know them now.
Such a task is manifestly beyond ordinary means. I, his oldest son, have been asked to try and edit, revise
and correct the manuscript as best possible before publication. This I have done to the best of my limited
ability. I have not added anything to the original draft or changed anything except where requested to do so in
marginal notes in my father’s own handwriting.
I found the work frustrating because it was far beyond the scope of my ability. At the same time, I found it
extremely interesting and rewarding as I tried to sort out the thoughts and ideas of a man who died almost seven
years ago.
At some points in the manuscript I found notes such as: “Check the accuracy of such and such a point” or
“dig out more information on such and such a person”. On each occasion, I deleted the point queried
completely, for it was always my father’s strong belief that nothing should ever be written until completely
proved out in the light of existing knowledge. Since I do not have the necessary sense of values to decide what
information should or should not be used in such cases, I felt safest by leaving the information out completely.
The fact that there are only thirteen chapters in this book w
ill annoy some people and frustrate others: I
think all who read it will be left in a state of restlessness. “The Unfinished Symphony” has never been
completed and this book will not be completed either, except as each reader finishes it for himself in the future
by personal experience as the story unfolds.
Many of you will scoff at the statements made in this
book; many w
ill toss it aside as the ravings of a mad-
man; some will be unable to finish the book because it will arouse anxieties and fears that cannot be faced. But
many others, and I hope that they will be in the majority, will find in this work the answers to some of the most
perplexing of the problems that have faced men since the beginning of time and provide material for pondering
possible solutions to the future.
It is up to this latter group principally, but to all men of goodwill generally, regardless of color, race or
creed, that this work is respectfully dedicated in my father’s name. With the dedication goes my earnest hope
and prayer that each one of you will strive, each in his own way, to avert the catastrophe that is surely to come
upon us if the Devil’s plots are not thwarted soon.
For those of you who do read further, please try to remember that this is an uncompleted work and that if
there appears to be a gap or lack of continuity at some points, it is only because this book was published from
little better than a rough draft of what undoubtedly would have been a polished literary effort had Cmdr. Carr
lived a few more months to finish it himself.
Please accept my apologies for my obvious lack in preparing this work completely and I hope that in spite of
its shortcomings, it will be a rich source of material for your future thought. Even more, that it will be the
inspiration for future good work to continue the author’s efforts to: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”. If we
all work together, perhaps with the help of our Creator, we shall be able to make the world just a little more like
God intended that it should be.
Sincerely and fraternally yours,
Signed
W.J. Carr, Jr.
Lima, Peru
June 2, 1966

 

[Hidden In Him]

God is the same but His dealings with His people are different. The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Hello there, Billy.

In essence I'd agree with this, although I'm not certain that grace and truth should be considered as exclusive to the New Testament.

But then, I'm not certain you meant that way either.

God bless, and thanks for the post.
- H

 

[Cooper]

Fascinating. I would think the Harold Rosenthal in that link is the same for which there is the Rosenthal fellowship?
Speaking of HR, have you read this? The Hidden Tyranny

Lucifer = Latin; Light Bringer.
I wonder if Lucifer is a derivative of the Greeks myth surrounding Prometheus?

Edit to add: While I don't ascribe giving credibility to the host, "Jesus is Savior", this free PDF of the book, Satan, Prince of This World, may interest you as well.
Namely because the Preface, below, is timely to what Christians have witnessed happening in America for a great many years now. Escalating in a zeal to destroy all decency in any facet in our society. I find it interesting that a work this old would make note of that being an agenda and speaking from decades past to what is happening now with great vigor. And sadly enough, by law.
The PDF is 92 pages.

SATAN, Prince of This World - Jesus-is-Savior.com preview / satan-prince-of-this-world-jesus-is-savior-com.pdf / PDF4PRO

PREFACE
When the author of this book, Commander W.J.G. Carr died on October 2,
1959, he left this
book in
manuscript form along with many scribbled notes, reference books, half formulated thoughts, etc. His last wish
was that the book be finished and published in order that all men might know of the plot which exists to wipe
out every trace of decency in the world and all civilizations as we know them now.
Such a task is manifestly beyond ordinary means. I, his oldest son, have been asked to try and edit, revise
and correct the manuscript as best possible before publication. This I have done to the best of my limited
ability. I have not added anything to the original draft or changed anything except where requested to do so in
marginal notes in my father’s own handwriting.
I found the work frustrating because it was far beyond the scope of my ability. At the same time, I found it
extremely interesting and rewarding as I tried to sort out the thoughts and ideas of a man who died almost seven
years ago.
At some points in the manuscript I found notes such as: “Check the accuracy of such and such a point” or
“dig out more information on such and such a person”. On each occasion, I deleted the point queried
completely, for it was always my father’s strong belief that nothing should ever be written until completely
proved out in the light of existing knowledge. Since I do not have the necessary sense of values to decide what
information should or should not be used in such cases, I felt safest by leaving the information out completely.
The fact that there are only thirteen chapters in this book w
ill annoy some people and frustrate others: I
think all who read it will be left in a state of restlessness. “The Unfinished Symphony” has never been
completed and this book will not be completed either, except as each reader finishes it for himself in the future
by personal experience as the story unfolds.
Many of you will scoff at the statements made in this
book; many w
ill toss it aside as the ravings of a mad-
man; some will be unable to finish the book because it will arouse anxieties and fears that cannot be faced. But
many others, and I hope that they will be in the majority, will find in this work the answers to some of the most
perplexing of the problems that have faced men since the beginning of time and provide material for pondering
possible solutions to the future.
It is up to this latter group principally, but to all men of goodwill generally, regardless of color, race or
creed, that this work is respectfully dedicated in my father’s name. With the dedication goes my earnest hope
and prayer that each one of you will strive, each in his own way, to avert the catastrophe that is surely to come
upon us if the Devil’s plots are not thwarted soon.
For those of you who do read further, please try to remember that this is an uncompleted work and that if
there appears to be a gap or lack of continuity at some points, it is only because this book was published from
little better than a rough draft of what undoubtedly would have been a polished literary effort had Cmdr. Carr
lived a few more months to finish it himself.
Please accept my apologies for my obvious lack in preparing this work completely and I hope that in spite of
its shortcomings, it will be a rich source of material for your future thought. Even more, that it will be the
inspiration for future good work to continue the author’s efforts to: “Tell the truth and shame the Devil”. If we
all work together, perhaps with the help of our Creator, we shall be able to make the world just a little more like
God intended that it should be.
Sincerely and fraternally yours,
Signed
W.J. Carr, Jr.
Lima, Peru
June 2, 1966

Titles of Satan
1) Abaddon (Rev. 9:11).

2) Accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).

3) Adversary (1 Peter 5:8).

4) Angel of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:11).

5) Apollyon (Rev. 9:11).

6) Beelzebub (Matt. 12:24).

7) Belial (2 For. 6:15).

8) The devil (Matt. 4:1).

9) Enemy (Matt. 13:39).

10) Evil spirit (1 Sam. 16:14).

11) Father of lies (John 8:44).

12) God of this world (2 For. 4:4).

13) Great red dragon (Rev. 12:3,9).

14) King of Tyrus (Ezek. 28:12).

15) Liar (John 8:44).

16) Lucifer (Is a. 14:12

17) Old serpent (Rev. 12:9).

18) Power of darkness (Col. 1:13).

19) Prince of this world (John 12:31).

20) Prince of the devils (Matt. 12:24).

21) Prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2).

22) Ruler of the darkness of this world (Eph. 6:12).

23) Satan (1 Chronic. 21:1).

24) Serpent (Gen. 3:4).

25) Spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience (Eph. 2:2).

26) Tempter (Matt 12:43).

27) Unclean spirit (Matt 13:19, 38).

28) Wicked one (Matt 13:19, 38).

29) Son of the morning (Isa. 14:12-14).

30) Murderer from the beginning (John 8: 44)..

The 30 names and titles of Satan in the Bible - Ground Report

Who else but the servants of the devil would kill God’s prophets?
Jesus said: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (Matthew 23:34-35 KJV)

The God we read about in the Old Testament, is not the God of the New Testament i.e. the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word.
.

 

[Philip James]

The Israelites are indeed a chosen nation, but that is not to say the Israelites chose Christ.
.

Hello Cooper,

The True Israelite's chose Christ! And, thanks be to God, we gentiles have been welcomed into that union!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

 

[Cooper]

Hello Cooper,

The True Israelite's chose Christ! And, thanks be to God, we gentiles have been welcomed into that union!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

They do indeed my brother in Christ.
.

 

[WaterSong]

Titles of Satan
1) Abaddon (Rev. 9:11).

2) Accuser of the brethren (Rev. 12:10).

3) Adversary (1 Peter 5:8).

4) Angel of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:11).

5) Apollyon (Rev. 9:11).

6) Beelzebub (Matt. 12:24).

7) Belial (2 For. 6:15).

8) The devil (Matt. 4:1).

9) Enemy (Matt. 13:39).

10) Evil spirit (1 Sam. 16:14).

11) Father of lies (John 8:44).

12) God of this world (2 For. 4:4).

13) Great red dragon (Rev. 12:3,9).

14) King of Tyrus (Ezek. 28:12).

15) Liar (John 8:44).

16) Lucifer (Is a. 14:12

17) Old serpent (Rev. 12:9).

18) Power of darkness (Col. 1:13).

19) Prince of this world (John 12:31).

20) Prince of the devils (Matt. 12:24).

21) Prince of the power of the air (Eph. 2:2).

22) Ruler of the darkness of this world (Eph. 6:12).

23) Satan (1 Chronic. 21:1).

24) Serpent (Gen. 3:4).

25) Spirit that worketh in the children of disobedience (Eph. 2:2).

26) Tempter (Matt 12:43).

27) Unclean spirit (Matt 13:19, 38).

28) Wicked one (Matt 13:19, 38).

29) Son of the morning (Isa. 14:12-14).

30) Murderer from the beginning (John 8: 44)..

The 30 names and titles of Satan in the Bible - Ground Report

Who else but the servants of the devil would kill God’s prophets?
Jesus said: Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. (Matthew 23:34-35 KJV)

The God we read about in the Old Testament, is not the God of the New Testament i.e. the pre-incarnate Jesus, the Word.
.

Not the first time this question has been tossed about in Christian circles brother. It does cause one to wonder. Why would Omniscient God create his own Adversary, Satan?

I looked on YT again for that aforementioned video my sister told me about and I think I used the right keywords this time or something, because I found it.Though I may be mistaken when I had said this man she recommended was a preacher. That may have been my inference, not her statement about him.

As one can imagine there are a vast number of related videos. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=is+satan+god+of+old+testament+part+1

Part 1:

About: http://www.hiddenmeanings.com Bill Donahue Mani the prophet is introduced in this first part of a two part series which asks how the God we love could be so brutal in the old testament.
Here too is the Catholic take on the very question in this OP:

Part 2:

The perfect lamb was killed by evil people.
.

Indeed.
And those are the ones that targeted an actor/studio owner, writer, producer, director, for making a proper film that demonstrated the truth of those scriptures, and The Passion of the Christ.

You can't speak truth and not be called antisemitic. The great invisible word weapon that once cast makes the one so identified the pariah, the villain. And any truth they may speak after is made vulgar and a lie because it then is cast beneath the shadow indictment of that word.

 

[Rita]

I am going to bed, so you can tell me tomorrow.
.

[QUOTE
On reflection, it was the intent of what you were implying that I had an issue with. Abraham was a righteous man, that doesn’t mean he never messed up or was never influenced in negative ways but I do not believe he himself ‘ sacrificed children ‘ or practiced what the pagans around him were doing. Abraham trusted God, he had already learned to do that through the birth of Isaac. Although he obeyed the words Of God, he equally knew that The Lord would provide. When he left the servants he told them ‘ We will be back ‘ and he was talking about the boy and himself. So this reveals that in his heart he knew God would intervene , but he equally knew he had to outwardly ‘ show ‘ his obedience, and that took him right to the wire.
So, in essence, yes a pagan practice was used. It was the Lord that provided the ram, not Satan.
None of us know the thoughts, the inward reactions by Abraham as he pondered Gods request, or as he set out on the journey, or as he got closer to the event itself. His motive was not to appease a pagan god, he knew Gods voice. His ultimate desire was to be obedient to The Lord.
I cannot look upon the OT and not see God, however I can look upon the OT ( as in all periods of history ) as seeing Satan work within the world itself and influence Gods people at times as well, no one is immune from being influenced. It’s intertwined in the spiritual battle. I still stand on what I said early about trusting in God ultimate plan and sovereignty within everything that unfolds. However, I have been more challenged to consider how Satan has worked in the OT, so for that I thank you for the challenges.
Rita

 

[Cooper]

[QUOTE
On reflection, it was the intent of what you were implying that I had an issue with. Abraham was a righteous man, that doesn’t mean he never messed up or was never influenced in negative ways but I do not believe he himself ‘ sacrificed children ‘ or practiced what the pagans around him were doing. Abraham trusted God, he had already learned to do that through the birth of Isaac. Although he obeyed the words Of God, he equally knew that The Lord would provide. When he left the servants he told them ‘ We will be back ‘ and he was talking about the boy and himself. So this reveals that in his heart he knew God would intervene , but he equally knew he had to outwardly ‘ show ‘ his obedience, and that took him right to the wire.

So, in essence, yes a pagan practice was used. It was the Lord that provided the ram, not Satan.
None of us know the thoughts, the inward reactions by Abraham as he pondered Gods request, or as he set out on the journey, or as he got closer to the event itself. His motive was not to appease a pagan god, he knew Gods voice. His ultimate desire was to be obedient to The Lord.
I cannot look upon the OT and not see God, however I can look upon the OT ( as in all periods of history ) as seeing Satan work within the world itself and influence Gods people at times as well, no one is immune from being influenced. It’s intertwined in the spiritual battle. I still stand on what I said early about trusting in God ultimate plan and sovereignty within everything that unfolds. However, I have been more challenged to consider how Satan has worked in the OT, so for that I thank you for the challenges.
Rita

Nice thoughts, and very true. I never intended to imply that Abraham sacrificed children or practiced paganism, simply that he came from that region and knew about it, and yes, the pre-incarnate Jesus was with them all the way, providing manna from heaven and water from the rock Christ Jesus. If only they had followed the I AM instead of another. Anyway, It is all sorted now and thank you for the conversation. May God bless you and yours.
.

 

[Cooper]

Not the first time this question has been tossed about in Christian circles brother. It does cause one to wonder. Why would Omniscient God create his own Adversary, Satan?

I looked on YT again for that aforementioned video my sister told me about and I think I used the right keywords this time or something, because I found it.Though I may be mistaken when I had said this man she recommended was a preacher. That may have been my inference, not her statement about him.

As one can imagine there are a vast number of related videos. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=is+satan+god+of+old+testament+part+1

Part 1:

About: http://www.hiddenmeanings.com Bill Donahue Mani the prophet is introduced in this first part of a two part series which asks how the God we love could be so brutal in the old testament.
Here too is the Catholic take on the very question in this OP:

Part 2:

Indeed.
And those are the ones that targeted an actor/studio owner, writer, producer, director, for making a proper film that demonstrated the truth of those scriptures, and The Passion of the Christ.

You can't speak truth and not be called antisemitic. The great invisible word weapon that once cast makes the one so identified the pariah, the villain. And any truth they may speak after is made vulgar and a lie because it then is cast beneath the shadow indictment of that word.

I'm a little ambivalent about those videos, and feel the need to look at some more. To be honest I am happy with the understanding that there is both good and evil in the world, we know people by their deeds Titus 1:16, and we need to live our life according to Jesus. If we do that we shall be a million miles away from how the Old Testament people lived their lives, absent from the King of kings and Lord of lords.

May God bless us all. In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Amen.
.

 

[Brakelite]

Do you fellas not believe scripture? You say the God of the NT is the real deal, much better than the one of the OT, so what happened to the OT version? Lost in translation?

 

[Cooper]

Do you fellas not believe scripture? You say the God of the NT is the real deal, much better than the one of the OT, so what happened to the OT version? Lost in translation?

There is only one God, but not everyone worships him. You know that when you look at the worlds religions and the Jews are no exception. Many people worship Jesus, the WORD, the I AM, the King of kings, the Lord of lords of Isaiah, but not the Old Testament people who were worse than the Corinthians for their idol worship. The god of the Jews is the god of war, the god of one nation, their God. Jesus said to them, "If you knew me you would know the Father" but apart from the remnant, they know neither Jesus or the Father. Jesus told them who their god is in John 8:44.
.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ok this I agree with. Yes, we reveal different sides of our character to others, depending on how CLOSE we are to them, and that is precisely what was going on with Christ in the New Testament. He was revealing deeper teaching to spiritual Israel - the spiritual meat of His word - that if they wanted to receive the ultimate blessings He had planned for them, it might well mean emulating Him in His sufferings and death for the sake of the gospel.

This is not something He told carnal Israel. For them it was, "An eye for an eye," and "You shall put away your wife with a slip of divorce." But for spiritual Israel He was teaching that justice, inheritance and reward were something we should be looking for in the next life, as opposed to counting on receiving it in this one.

Well I like your post except calling the church spiritual Israel for we are not ! We are the church. spiritual Israel are saved Jews. Paul made a difference between Jews and Gentiles and the church is the one NEW man, not a spiritualized version of the old man. And by calling the nation carnal, you are implying there were no saved among the nation of Israel and that is not true.

Those instructions of the Mosaic Law were divided into three aspects to show which part of life they governed! eye for eye was in th ecivil section of the one law for purposes of meting out punishment for crime! This phrase is akin to "let the punishment fit the crime". Remember God established the people of Israel as a nation and gave them rules on how to govern themselves as a nation.

The church is not a nation so as far as governing in the land? We are told to obey the governing authorities.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Hello there, Billy.

In essence I'd agree with this, although I'm not certain that grace and truth should be considered as exclusive to the New Testament.

But then, I'm not certain you meant that way either.

God bless, and thanks for the post.
- H

In the OT we see that if the sinnerman repented and came to God He forgave them, if they were sick He healed them, if they were in any kind of danger or trouble He delivered them, if they walked before Him H blessed them.

Jesus did exactly the same.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Finally got around to checking this out some, and the problem with his teaching here is that it is an argument from scholarship that is divorced from an understanding of supernatural reality and faith in both Jewish and Christian tradition. This casts doubt on if the Living God has been able to properly communicate truth to His people. I disagree wildly with commonly held interpretations of various scriptures, but when it comes to standard dogma, I don't disagree with established church doctrine very much. I am Apostle's Creed right down the line, not only based on the above principle, but because every bit of it is supported by scripture.

He appears to mean well enough, but this is an example of scholarship divorced from faith in the Living God to communicate truth accurately where the fundamental doctrines of the faith are concerned; something I do not and cannot subscribe to.