Proof that Jesus is God

[Curtis]

No. A word is spoken by a who. Check the dictionary.

John 1 says it?! Sad Appeal to Circular Reasoning.

THE WORD IS A WHO WHEN SCRIPTURE CALLS THE WORD “A HIM AND HE” in John 1:10, 14

And says of the WORD that THE WORLD WAS MADE BY “HIM”.

Your theology forces you to an unreasonable interpretation of clear scripture

And an appeal to authority - as in quoting the scriptures - isn’t even close to circular reasoning.

 

[Wrangler]

THE WORD IS A WHO WHEN SCRIPTURE CALLS THE WORD “A HIM AND HE” in John 1:10

A deliberate trinitarian mistranslation as it is STILL figurative language referring to God, not Jesus.

It is A deliberate trinitarian mistranslation as John 6:60 translates the same Greek word as “this” in referring to word.

 

[Wrangler]

And an appeal to authority - as in quoting the scriptures - isn’t even close to circular reasoning.

Not authority, Circular Reasoning. JFK Jr is alive because he has to be alive.

Again, John 1:1 does not even refer to Jesus or have Jesus in the sentence.

 

[Cooper]

No but rather Jesus is "the Christ the son of the living God." (Matthew 16:16)

If Jesu was God then Jesus and God would be interchangeable. You could easily insert God for Jesus... Look at the scriptures and see that they are alive and spit out the trinity doctrine.

IF Jesus is God, Can we assume GOD cried out My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

About the ninth hour, Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “Eʹli, Eʹli, laʹma sa·bach·thaʹni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46)

Can you not understand that God is Spirit who put on flesh, like a solder puts on a uniform? When on the battlefield in foreign lands, he has a job to do the same as Jesus did here on earth. Back home he returns to his former status.

 

[Cooper]

Scriptures say he is a god. Look into the Greek the first instance of God is not the same as the second instance.

In the first, depending on the Greek (ho theos) or (theon) was used which means the God.
Second instance (theos) is used and the natural use of theos is in the feminine sense meaning a god.

So, for (theos) to mean God, a definite article would be added. Therefore, (ho theos) the God in the first instance only.

According to scripture, "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.' (John 1:18) <~~~~~ Click and see that theos was in the Greek.

Trinitarians removed God from scripture. Would an honest person remove God from scripture?? Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten god. So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (John 1:14)

Take Care.

God in Christ is One.
.

 

[Cooper]

No. A word is spoken by a who. Check the dictionary.

John 1 says it?! Sad Appeal to Circular Reasoning.

Jesus is the Word of God who spoke directly to us the same as I am talking to you right now. My screen name is different from my real name, but in reality, I am One person.
.

 

[ReChoired]

in the Westcott and Hort

Yep, there's your problem (Westcott and Hort). Can you show me the marks please from the GNTTR?:

Joh 1:1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θεον και θεος ην ο λογος

Can you show me the marks from the early p66?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Papyrus_66_(GA).jpg

I even showed to you many who transliterate John 1:1 as I gave it to you from the reliable and even early mss we actually have. Westcott and Hort were spiritualists, among many other things, like liars.

Even Philip Schaff's notations (826) read "(h|n)" - History of the Christian Church & Ecclesiastical History

 

[ReChoired]

Look into the Greek the first instance of God is not the same as the second instance.

A differentiation of Persons/Beings (ton theon (Father), and theos [h]en o logos (Son)) is not a difference in nature. This is where you are confused.

John 1:6,13 just says "theou". It doesn't even use the definite article and it still refers to the Father.

Joh 1:6 εγενετο ανθρωπος απεσταλμενος παρα θεου ονομα αυτω ιωαννης

Joh 1:13 οι ουκ εξ αιματων ουδε εκ θεληματος σαρκος ουδε εκ θεληματος ανδρος αλλ εκ θεου εγεννηθησαν

Hebrews 1:8 refers to the Son as "o theos":

Heb 1:8 προς δε τον υιον ο θρονος σου ο θεος εις τον αιωνα του αιωνος ραβδος ευθυτητος η ραβδος της βασιλειας σου

Hebrews 1:9 refers to the Father, and also of the Son as each being an "o theos"

Heb 1:9 ηγαπησας δικαιοσυνην και εμισησας ανομιαν δια τουτο εχρισεν σε ο θεος ο θεος σου ελαιον αγαλλιασεως παρα τους μετοχους σου

Hebrews 1:10 refers to the Son as "kyrie", being a NT reference to the OT JEHOVAH (LORD) in Psalms 102:12,25-27:

Heb 1:10 και συ κατ αρχας κυριε την γην εθεμελιωσας και εργα των χειρων σου εισιν οι ουρανοι

Compare Hebrews 1:10-12, to Hebrews 13:4-8, wherein "o theos" (vs 4) refers to "ιησους χριστος χθες και σημερον ο αυτος και εις τους αιωνας", which is found in Hebrews 1:12.

Heb 1:10 και συ κατ αρχας κυριε την γην εθεμελιωσας και εργα των χειρων σου εισιν οι ουρανοι
Heb 1:11 αυτοι απολουνται συ δε διαμενεις και παντες ως ιματιον παλαιωθησονται
Heb 1:12 και ωσει περιβολαιον ελιξεις αυτους και αλλαγησονται συ δε ο αυτος ει και τα ετη σου ουκ εκλειψουσιν

Heb 13:4 τιμιος ο γαμος εν πασιν και η κοιτη αμιαντος πορνους δε και μοιχους κρινει ο θεος
Heb 13:5 αφιλαργυρος ο τροπος αρκουμενοι τοις παρουσιν αυτος γαρ ειρηκεν ου μη σε ανω ουδ ου μη σε εγκαταλιπω
Heb 13:6 ωστε θαρρουντας ημας λεγειν κυριος εμοι βοηθος και ου φοβηθησομαι τι ποιησει μοι ανθρωπος
Heb 13:7 μνημονευετε των ηγουμενων υμων οιτινες ελαλησαν υμιν τον λογον του θεου ων αναθεωρουντες την εκβασιν της αναστροφης μιμεισθε την πιστιν
Heb 13:8 ιησους χριστος χθες και σημερον ο αυτος και εις τους αιωνας

Titus 2:13 even calls Jesus, "του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων" (the great God and our Saviour)

Tit 2:13 προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου

 

[kcnalp]

Scriptures say he is a god. Look into the Greek the first instance of God is not the same as the second instance.In the first, depending on the Greek (ho theos) or (theon) was used which means the God.
Second instance (theos) is used and the natural use of theos is in the feminine sense meaning a god.

So, for (theos) to mean God, a definite article would be added. Therefore, (ho theos) the God in the first instance only.

My question was: "You said Jesus is a god. Then He must be a false god or the real God. Which is it?"

According to scripture, "No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.' (John 1:18) <~~~~~ Click and see that theos was in the Greek.

Abraham saw God.
Genesis 12:7 (NKJV)
7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land." And there he built an altar to the LORD, who had appeared to him.

Trinitarians removed God from scripture. Would an honest person remove God from scripture?? Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten god. So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (John 1:14)

Take Care.

Have you ever read your NWT?

NWT John 20:28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God

 

[keithr]

Hebrews 1:10 refers to the Son as "kyrie", being a NT reference to the OT JEHOVAH (LORD) in Psalms 102:12,25-27

FYI, the Cambridge Bible notes for Hebrews 1:10 says,

"Thou, Lord, in the beginning] The quotation is from Psa 102:25-27. The word “Lord” is not in the original, but it is in the LXX.; and the Hebrew Christians who already believed that it was by Christ that “God made the world” (see note on Heb 1:2) would not dispute the Messianic application of these words to Him.​

 

[keithr]

You haven't accepted the word "Lord" as Paul draws from the OT. It's JEHOVAH. Not merely a 'king" ('lord', a ruler).

Romans 10:9 (WEB): that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Note that Paul did NOT say, "confess with your mouth that Jesus is God". Paul also said, (1 Cor 8:6) "yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him", and (Eph 4:5,6) "one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all, and through all, and in us all". He also often used introductory phrases like "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Cor 1:3). So he consistently differentiates between God and Lord. Our Father, Yahweh, is God, and Jesus is our Lord. Quite simple!

I showed this already. You didn't see or hear (you chose not to):

1Co_12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

There was no need to comment on that, because clearly from what I have written so far I have said and believe that Jesus is our Lord, and the Lord.

You didn't even ask Jesus who He is.

How do you know what I have and haven't asked Jesus?! I don't need to ask him, I believe what Peter said, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” (Matthew 16:16 TLV), which Jesus confirmed was correct.

Jesus is clear keithr:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

And the following verse says,

They said therefore to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning.​

And what had Jesus been saying to them from the beginning? He kept telling them that he was the "Son of Man", the messiah and the son of God.

Jesus went on to say, (John 8:28-29):

Jesus therefore said to them, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and I do nothing of myself, but as my Father taught me, I say these things. He who sent me is with me. The Father hasn’t left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to him.”​

which is clearly denying that he was God, and claiming that he was God's son.

 

[kcnalp]

Even Kingdom Hall admitted that Jesus is God!

NWT John 20:28 Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!”

Thomas knew Jesus personally!

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus is the Word of God who spoke directly to us the same as I am talking to you right now. My screen name is different from my real name, but in reality, I am One person.
.

Oy vey! The Word in John 1 is (the word of) God not Jesus.

Reading 1 Samuel 15 today. The LORD's commands to utterly destroy all the Amalekites is a a great character difference.

3 I want you to go down against Amalek and destroy them, everything they have. Do not allow anything to survive; destroy them all—man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
1 Samuel 15:3 (Voice)

 

[Wrangler]

Can you not understand that God is Spirit who put on flesh, like a solder puts on a uniform?

LOL I understand and reject trinitarianism in all its permutations. Did you not read Deuteronomy 18:15-18? God did not 'become flesh' his words were put in a man. Can you not understand the difference between a word and a being?

 

[kcnalp]

Oy vey! The Word in John 1 is (the word of) God not Jesus.

Reading 1 Samuel 15 today. The LORD's commands to utterly destroy all the Amalekites is a a great character difference.

3 I want you to go down against Amalek and destroy them, everything they have. Do not allow anything to survive; destroy them all—man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.”
1 Samuel 15:3 (Voice)

Then who was the Word that was God that became flesh? You don't even know!

 

[ReChoired]

FYI, the Cambridge Bible notes for Hebrews 1:10 says,

"Thou, Lord, in the beginning] The quotation is from Psa 102:25-27. The word “Lord” is not in the original, but it is in the LXX.; and the Hebrew Christians who already believed that it was by Christ that “God made the world” (see note on Heb 1:2) would not dispute the Messianic application of these words to Him.​

I have already proven there is no such thing as "the LXX". Here (please read and consider carefully the material therein):

Proof that Jesus is God

Additionally, what is cited as "the LXX" is not actually a translation of the original Hebrew text, but is a back-scribing (post 150-200 AD) from certain NT texts, to make it look as if it were. This was done so that certain phrases in the NT koine Greek would not appear contradictory to the Hebrew texts on hand (though there never were any real contradictions in the first place), and so Origen, Theodotian, Symmachus and Aquila, etc made it look as if the OT matched the NT, when it was simply the NT material being made to parade itself in a manufactured OT. What is more, the so called "LXX" (really Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, primarily) isn't even written in the koine Greek of the NT texts.

As I showed, Paul (writer of Hebrews) is not merely drawing from Psalms 102:25-27, but also Psalms 102:12 (which specifically, in context of vss 25-27 uses the word "LORD" ("JEHOVAH", Hebrew vs 13 (English vs 12, "יהוה"), even connected with "thou ... shalt endure forever" (vs 12), "thou shalt endure" (vs 26)), in Hebrews 1:10-12, and I demonstrated by highlighting the phrases in the material. You can see that here:

Proof that Jesus is God

Now I will ask you the same questions I asked of another in regards the NT koine Greek uses of the word "kyrie", as being a reference to OT passages being drawn upon in context of God:

Proof that Jesus is God

Read carefully, and I await your answers.

Finally, in the so called "LXX" you refer to, since you make a big deal out of it not using the word JEHOVAH in the so called LXX Psalms 101:26-29 (for the English 102:25-27) (ignoring that I cited also vs 12; Psa 102:12 But thou, O LORD, shalt endure for ever; and thy remembrance unto all generations.), and that it uses the word "kyrie", ('LXX' 101: 26) "κατ᾿ ἀρχὰς σύ, κύριε, τὴν γῆν ἐθεμελίωσας, καὶ ἔργα τῶν χειρῶν σού εἰσιν οἱ οὐρανοί·", I want to ask you (and please be specific), Where in the so called LXX is there any place in which it uses the transliteration into Greek for JEHOVAH (such as IEOVAH, etc)?

Does the so called 'LXX' also use the Greek "κύριε" ('κύριον', 'κύριε ὁ θεὸς Ισραηλ', 1 Chr. 29:10; 'κύριε ὁ ἄρχων πάσης ἀρχῆς', 1 Chr. 29:12; 'κύριε', 1 Chr. 29:13) in all places where you would not disagree that the text specifically refers to eternal God (Deity), JEHOVAH Elohiym, such as in 1 Chronicles 29:10-13? if so, what does your argument have to do with anything since that would also prove that the 'kyrie' of Psalms 102 is also JEHOVAH?

Therefore, are you agreeing that Psalms 102 is Messianic and applies to Christ Jesus, even as Paul applies Psalms 102:12,25-27 in Hebrews 1:10-12, and again reiterates that in Hebrews 13 when speaking of Jesus as "the same", even the "Lord [JEHOVAH], my helper", and "God" therein? If so, you have a problem. Paul, under inspiration of the Holy Ghost, is therefore citing that Jesus is JEHOVAH (not the Person/Being of the Father, but the Person/Being of the Son), and not merely a 'king' (a 'ruler', a 'lord' in that sense), but Deity over all creation, even as being compared to higher than all the created angelic hosts, for He is the LORD (JEHOVAH) of Hosts, with His Father, being the LORD (JEHOVAH) God.

(ps, if as you believe that false history of 72 or 70 Jews from 12 tribes writing a Greek OT, then it would prove that the Jews long ago, before NT times abandoned the word "JEHOVAH" (IEOVAH) in favor of "LORD" (KYRIE), which would also disprove your point. You really believe that in 200 +BC they did this, where is your evidence (produce it here)?)

(pps, I do not really care what the Cambridge bible 'notes' say. Try sticking to scripture. Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13, &c)

 

[Wrangler]

Then who was the Word that was God that became flesh? You don't even know!

I reject the implied premise of your question. It is not God who became flesh but his word. His words were spoken by a man he chose as Moses wrote in Deuteronomy 18:15-18.

 

[kcnalp]

It is not God who became flesh but his word.

Do you even read your own posts?

John 1 The Word was God.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you even read your own posts?

John 1 The Word was God.

Right. Figurative language. Words are not beings.

 

[ReChoired]

Words are not beings.

Are you sure you aren't being figurative?