Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes I agree with everything
my problem is i do not have perfect love. Or faith. Hence why fear can overtake us if we are not careful
Justification by Faith Alone
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my problem is i do not have perfect love. Or faith. Hence why fear can overtake us if we are not careful
your mincing words and text to sustain your argument, so this isn't for you its for the reader:
1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
its absolutely unrealistic to think that people don't make mistakes when they do things no matter how good of a thing they may be doing. its a process that demands a penitent life style. so no if you make mistakes you have need to repent from to sustain a good relationship between you and God you're not condemned into darkness but you do hamper you well being with the Lord.
Paul explains here
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
that which is of God remains with God, that which is not returns to the ground.
Perfect love comes only with God’s love. And as far as Faith concerns. Everyman is given a measure of it from the Lord. Now it is written that faith comes by hearing the word of God. Many confuse this with going to church hearing preaching. Or reading their daily Bible. But hearing the word of God as the scriptures have declared all men are taught by God. This is understanding from on high. The more you understand the stronger your faith. What many people have is knowledge without understanding. When God reveals his truth you’ll will never doubt it or question it but embrace it. Anyone can have knowledge that 2x2=4 but understanding how to get their is another thing.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
the problem is there are thousands of areas we need to trust God in.
I can have almost perfect faith in half of them. Alot of faith in many more and week in faith in others.
That is the issue.
Had you properly understood justification by grace through faith, you would not have made this remark. To be justified by grace through faith is indeed "to be saved by grace through faith". And those who are justified are predestined to be glorified. So justification is a "done deal". It is God who justifies, and it is God who can be just while He justifies the ungodly, since Christ paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world. Therefore saving faith justifies apart from any works.
Now we come to sanctification, and that is a separate issue. God requires those who are justified to be sanctified by working out their salvation with fear and trembling. And if and when a believer (a child of God) sins, God has already shown what must be done to deal with present sins.
1. Christ says "the one who endures to the end will be saved" so there are no disciples who are not awaiting a future salvation. "Had you understood" that our "salvation" "by the blood of the Lamb" was comparable to the salvation of the Jews from Egyptian slavery but that afterward they still fell under wrath and failed to inherit the promise and that those things apply to us today, if you'd just taken 1 Corinthians 10 seriously, you wouldn't have made that remark.
2. Justification is compromised by sin since it says "condemned" Romans 14:23 and that's the opposite of "justified".
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Matt 24 is NT about eternal salvation, it’s about those who go through tribulation
as for the jews who came out of Egypt, what did they do that made you think they had faith in God
1. No, that's incorrect about the context of Mt 24--the verses immediately prior warn of false prophets misleading many and that as a result of their misleading the love of many will grow cold. That's talking about enduring in faith and righteousness in order to be saved from God's wrath on the wicked.
2a. 1 Corinthians 10 says what befell them could befall us so it doesn't matter whether you want to nitpick about whether they had faith.
2b. Of course they had faith--they kept the Passover by faith. That's why Hebrews 10:36 says "You have need of endurance so you can inherit the promise after having done God's will"--they didn't inherit the promise because they fell away and were destroyed instead (vv36-39).
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yep that will happen in the last days, and then there will be tribulation,,he who endures will be saved
2a yes, if we have the same faith they had it could befall us
2b. They complained at every turn, they continued to show lack of faith in God and they would not even enter the rest God gave them.. these people had no faith. If they did we would see fruits of it,
So, yep, there is a future salvation.
Reread 1 Corinthians, it says they were condemned bexause of their evil works. The reason he brings it up is because the Church needed to repent. 2 Corinthians shows it yielded the intended effect.
Sorry, that's not 1 Corinthians 10's argument;it argues that their sin caused their condemnation though they had the blood of the lamb based salvation and were baptized and ate communion--and that is a warning to us.
This is just what Romans 14:23 argues. Justification is affected by sin.
@Eternally Grateful Does Romans 14:23 not reach justification is affected by sin? Why does it say sin results in condemnation? Isn't it true that this is the uniform teaching of Scripture--sin affects your standing before God?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
yep for them, they will not be killed and will witness first hand the return of Christ
Well if John said whoever sins has never seen God, then we can assume these people never knew god (as in as their father)
once again, not everyone in your church is saved, hopefully you pastor is teaching to them also
Being baptized and eating communion does not save you, many people go to church have been baptized and take communion, yet have never been saved,
yes their sin condemns the, why? Because whoever believes is not condemned, whoever does not believe is condemned already (Jesus).
they never had saving faith, like many Jews, their faith was in self not Christ
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
We been here bro
condemns yourself
I have been there when I condemned myself because of sins,
that’s the warning.
if we can lose salvation because of sin, Jesus did not pay for every sin, and whatever sin it is that caused loss of salvation can find no redemption
TheslightestID
Active Member
Haven't read the thread, but the scripture on the Sheep and the Goats make it very clear that salvation is conditional. And as we read it and Christ tells us those who don't take care of the poor were condemned to hell, notice two things...
1) They were the ones who actually thought they were saved. They even argued with Jesus that they cast out demons and such, but it did them no good. Seems to me tney are a lot like those today who say they are saved no matter what because they say they have faith. They think they are saved but in the end they were ushered off to Hell.
2) Also notice how Jesus never in his career gets into this mess about, their good works being a residual of their faith, so if they don't do good works, they were never saved to begin with. Jesus knows perfectly well salvation can be lost. Jesus is always short and simple and needs no long winded explanations to bend the truth like OSAS does. He only puts emphases on, you don't do this, you go to hell in the Sheep/Goat scripture.
Here is another short and clear comment by Christ that I post so often because it minces no words, and doesn't play around with confusing the issues with lengthy posts like OSAS/Satan does. It's more lovely solid truth, and nothing but the truth.
John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."
1) They were the ones who actually thought they were saved. They even argued with Jesus that they cast out demons and such, but it did them no good. Seems to me tney are a lot like those today who say they are saved no matter what because they say they have faith. They think they are saved but in the end they were ushered off to Hell.
2) Also notice how Jesus never in his career gets into this mess about, their good works being a residual of their faith, so if they don't do good works, they were never saved to begin with. Jesus knows perfectly well salvation can be lost. Jesus is always short and simple and needs no long winded explanations to bend the truth like OSAS does. He only puts emphases on, you don't do this, you go to hell in the Sheep/Goat scripture.
Here is another short and clear comment by Christ that I post so often because it minces no words, and doesn't play around with confusing the issues with lengthy posts like OSAS/Satan does. It's more lovely solid truth, and nothing but the truth.
John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."
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GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
Precious friend, OK then...short and simple!:
(1) "God’s SURE Foundation Has THIS SEAL”:
“The LORD Knoweth them that Are HIS!..." (2 Timothy 2 : 19 KJB!), Correct?
(2) HOW LONG Has "The LORD KNOWN them That Are HIS Own"?
(Ephesians 1 : 4-6 KJB!) = ALWAYS, Correct?
(3) For those who are LOST, how is it That The LORD Said Unto them:
“I NEVER Knew you”? (Matthew 7 : 21-23 KJB!) = NEVER, Correct?
Conclusion:
Thus, the doctrine of "Christ ONCE {Always?} knew one forgiven And
Eternally Saved, And, Then when they walked away, He [NEVER knew?]
Did NOT know them Any Longer, and they Became LOST! Or:
Your "Jesus knows perfectly well salvation can be lost"...
Are NOWHERE found In God's Pure And HOLY Scripture, Correct?
TheslightestID
Active Member
Of course he paid for every sin, what hotshot preacher did you get that popular little sirmisation from?
He paid the price so we would have a chance, a chance to stop living like the devil, and show we have enough faith to show we love him, and not just claim it.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” John 14:15
TheslightestID
Active Member
More long winded verse hopping, where if I wanted to do that, I could make the bible mean anything I wanted it too mean.
All you did there was create a lie, Satan style.
QUOTE="GRACE ambassador, post: 1051917, member: 10054"]Are NOWHERE found In God's Pure And HOLY Scripture, Correct?[/QUOTE]
Of course it is, you simply havent the biblical knowledge to know it, or you refuse to belive it when it is showed to you
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In what context was that said? The siege of Jerusalem.
It warns about deception from people claiming to speak on God's behalf, and then it warns of the sinfulness, and resulting hatred, that will result from the sin, and then it says "but those who endure until the end will be saved", and you seriously want me to believe this is about physical "salvation"?
1. So, you want me to believe that Christians never sin? Do you sin?
2. So, the Church was in sin, and the Church was rebuked, and the Church repented, according to 2 Corinthians, but Christians never sin?
3. If you sin, and if the Church in Corinth sinned, then isn't your interpretation of 1 John erroneous?
There is no way to read 1 Corinthians as not referring to "saved" individuals, because that is precisely Paul's point : just as we were "saved" from slavery to sin and the condemnation that sin brings by the blood of the Lamb, they also were saved by lamb's blood from slavery in Egypt and the angel of death that slew them, and just as we have been baptized, so also they were baptized (in the Red Sea), just as we eat Communion, so they ate Communion (the manna, and drank from Christ), AND YET, with most of them God was displeased, because of their sin, so they fell under God's wrath without inheriting the Promised Land, and we need to be aware of the fact that when God had those things written down, He had us Christians in mind and was teaching us about how Christianity works and that we must live righteously if we intend to inherit the Promise.
Romans 14:23 isn't about "believing in Jesus", Romans 14:23 is about whether you are doing what you are "fully convinced in your own mind" Romans 14:5 is correct or whether you have doubts about whether it is correct.
1. Romans 14:23 is part of an epistle written to a Church, and it teaches Christians that their justification is affected by their works.
2. 1 Corinthians 10 says the Jews were written about with us in mind because it directly applies to us.
You speak of your faith in God. You say you have a lot of faith in somethings. Not so much with others.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law,
Before Faith came. Where was it before then? Men had none because the gift hadn’t been given yet.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness,
faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
The fruits are the gifts from God through his HS.
The reason the scripture states before faith came was because the HS hadn’t been given yet.
When we used the word faith many believe it is just acknowledging the word of God. They have no trust in their heart from God. Back in the apostles day the word faith meant the same as trust. But through the ages words have the tendency to change their meaning through human reasoning. The Old Testament speaks how that the Gentiles will have trust in the Lord, in several places.
So when you speak of the faith you have - is it the gift that comes through the Holy Spirit or through your own reasoning?
Do you remember the scripture where the apostles could not cast out the devil and Christ told them that if they had the faith of a mustard seed they could say unto a mountain be cast into the sea and it would be? When the apostles heard this they asked Christ to increase their faith. How is faith increased? By the will of God? Those he gives understanding to are increased.
What is the lesson of the mustard seed? It show us just how little faith that God gives to receive his righteousness.
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