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1 Corinthians 10.32 speaks of Jews, Gentiles and the church of God...
Christians are scattered among the nations; including Israel.I reject the idea of Christian nations being "Israel." That's a contradiction to me. Israel is only one of many nations. Therefore, all nations cannot be "Israel."
Yea, that's a common view, which I don't hold to. Judah was only the predominant tribe in which proper worship under the Law was taking place. So all tribes, over time, joined with Judah in proper worship under the Law. Israel came to be identified as "Jews," only because it was a reconstitution in the southern kingdom of Judah, and not because it consisted only of those from the tribe of Judah.
I reject the idea of Christian nations being "Israel." That's a contradiction to me. Israel is only one of many nations. Therefore, all nations cannot be "Israel."
Christians are scattered among the nations; including Israel.
Many prophesies tell us how the Lord will gather them into all of the holy Land, where they will become the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
The Nation formed in one day, as described in Isaiah 66:7-14 & 18b-21
You discard plainly stated scripture to reject these and many other prophesies.
Thinking that the current Jewish State of Israel is still the Chosen people of God, also ignores just about the entire New Testament.
2/3 of Jews will be cut off and die?I'm Postrib and also believe in the future salvation of national Israel. I think it's important to state this because many Postribs reject Israel in prophecy altogether, or reinterpret it to apply to the international Church.
Let me say, first of all, that there is a difference between the biblical view of national salvation and the biblical view of individual salvation. National salvation has more to do with the survival of the entire society rather than with spiritual salvation.
But these things are obviously tied together. God said that without spirituality and without obedience, a nation will not be saved. It will ultimately perish or suffer significant judgment.
Many get confused about this because they think that saving a society is not important in relation to saving an individual. Actually, both are important to God--both nations and individuals. The nation protects the individual, and thus provides a healthy spiritual climate for the individual if the nation is itself generally spiritual, or tolerant of spirituality.
The problem with Postribs who deny the place of national Israel in prophecy is that God did indeed promise this to Abraham. And God doesn't break His promises. Though the Early Church gave up hope in Israel's future salvation because Israel didn't repent, this does not mean that after many generations God cannot begin again with Israel, and ultimately refine her through the fires of His judgment.
So I do believe in Israel's future salvation, and also in the salvation of other nations--primarily Christian nations. Like Israel, many Christian nations have fallen on hard times, and have come under divine punishment. If Israel can be saved, so can these former Christian nations.
So where in the Bible do we see the salvation of Christian nations? We don't, because when the Bible was written Christian nations did not yet exist. And yet God promised them to Abraham. He was promised he would become father of a multitude of nations.
The problem I see with Pretribs and their Dispensationalism is that not only are they wrong about Pretrib itself, but also wrong to emphasize Israel's salvation through the lens of OT realities. They see Israel as returning to the Law, and they see Israel as still an exclusive nation in a sea of pagan nations.
That reality has changed, although some of it remains true. Whereas the nations ultimately capitulate to paganism it is not true that other nations did not become nations of God. Many nations have become Christian nations. They just ultimately fall, as Israel did. All nations do, ultimately, turn against Israel.
So the idea is to recognize that Israel is no longer alone in prophecy, and the future will involve not just Israel's recovery, but also the recovery of many other nations, formerly of faith. And most certainly, there will be no return to the Law. If all nations oppose Israel, they also oppose the idea of "Christian nations." They will stand not in opposition to the practice of the Law of Moses, but rather, in opposition to Christ and to those promised to Christ.
Sure it does. To the true faithful Christian Israelites of God. The new owners, as Jeremiah 8:10 tells us. Jeremiah 23:8, Romans 9:24-26...Christians in the very place....The land of Israel belongs to Israel.
Sure it does. To the true faithful Christian Israelites of God. The new owners, as Jeremiah 8:10 tells us. Jeremiah 23:8, Romans 9:24-26...Christians in the very place....
Note; the indictment against the Jews in Jeremiah 8:1-12...therefore they will fall with a great crash, brought down on the Lord's Day of reckoning.
But if you cared to look at many other prophesies, you would see that the third part that will pass thru fire, is also decimated. Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:279 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
Daniel 7:25 and John in Revelation 13:7, knew where God's holy people, the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, will be in the end times.It will encompass the entire Middle East. My thought is that the Church will gather to the Middle East at times, and at other times be elsewhere on the planet. But who knows?
Daniel 7:25 and John in Revelation 13:7, knew where God's holy people, the faithful Christians from every tribe, race, nation and language, will be in the end times.
There are over 20 prophesies that detail the demise of Jewish Israel. Why do you ignore them?
The problem I see with Pretribs and their Dispensationalism is that not only are they wrong about Pretrib itself, but also wrong to emphasize Israel's salvation through the lens of OT realities. They see Israel as returning to the Law, and they see Israel as still an exclusive nation in a sea of pagan nations.
That reality has changed, although some of it remains true. Whereas the nations ultimately capitulate to paganism it is not true that other nations did not become nations of God. Many nations have become Christian nations. They just ultimately fall, as Israel did. All nations do, ultimately, turn against Israel.
So the idea is to recognize that Israel is no longer alone in prophecy, and the future will involve not just Israel's recovery, but also the recovery of many other nations, formerly of faith. And most certainly, there will be no return to the Law. If all nations oppose Israel, they also oppose the idea of "Christian nations." They will stand not in opposition to the practice of the Law of Moses, but rather, in opposition to Christ and to those promised to Christ.
Your confusion stems from believing that a bunch of people who had the money* and motivation* to establish a new nation in the Middle East, are the true and only Israel.I believe God's promise to Israel is irrevocable. But I also believe that before Israel is restored to being a nation of God, there will indeed be a serious "demise" of the Jewish People. Only a remnant of Israel will survive. But that remnant will once again become a full nation, after Christ's return.
First off, You are free to accept whatever time frame for the rapture you wish, but when the trumpet sounds before the antichrist signs the treaty with Israel, you will go with us pre-tribbers!
God has no "Christian nations". America was founded on christian principles, but God made no covenant with America. Only Israel as a nation has an everlasting covenant with god. More later.
Your confusion stems from believing that a bunch of people who had the money* and motivation* to establish a new nation in the Middle East, are the true and only Israel.
Money- the Rothschilds
Motivation - Communistic principals. Plus, the Holocaust helped, as the survivors wanted a safe haven.
That secular nation comprising of people who may or may not have a claim of descent from Judah, or any other of the 12 tribes, they have no proofs and in fact: the historical record shows mostly they do not, does seem to have been supported by spiritual forces. Keep in mind; there are two kinds of spiritual forces and anyway God uses people to achieve His own purposes.
I see God's Purpose in allowing a false Israel to be established in the holy Land, as His means of diverting attention from His main aim. Which is to form a righteous group of peoples, from every tribe, race, nation and language, People who have freely chosen to believe in His Son, whom God sent to redeem them and to teach them to Way of life.
They are the holy nation of the Christian peoples and it is the vast multitude of them, the true Israelites of God, who John sees gathered in Jerusalem, soon after the Lord has cleared, cleansed and regenerated all of the holy Land. Deuteronomy 32:34-43, Isaiah 35:1-10, Revelation 7:9
Hardly, I should say!If you deny there are no "Christian nations" you must be a "flat-earther?" You will find "Christian nations" in the encyclopedia of your choice. Denying that is the equivalent of denying you exist.