Freedom To Sin

[David H.]

Colossians 2:8-12 KJV
8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9) For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
10) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11) In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

2 Peter 1:2-4 KJV
2) Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3) According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

In Him we overcome all things!

Much love!

As I said your theology is based on half truths, it is convenient for you to quote the first few verses of 2 Peter 1 while ignoring verses 5-10.... The same with Colossians 2, You ignore the verses from 1-8 which explain how we become complete in him. Let's show the full context of these two passages, shall we....

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound (Increasing in some translations), they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall2 Peter 1:5-10)

For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. (Colossians 2:1-7)

Again, half truths, You deny the process and claim the promise without making the Journey that takes you there. It is time to get off the starting line, and run the race.... Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:1-2)

 

[David H.]

So were not gonna address Curtis' post with these verses and the clear warnings?

Im waiting for a good response to this!

Yes Indeed, that was one of the best and most well written responses I have seen on this forum which was largely ignored.

 

[Curtis]

You skipped Acts 2:38.

And you skipped Romans 10:8-13 saved with no water involved.

Here’s how Romans 13 reads,for example: for whosoever CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be SAVED.

Here’s how you wish it read: whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord and is baptized, shall be saved.

It’s not the water that saved when Paul was told to arise, be baptized and wash away your sins , CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD - per Romans 10:13, above, it’s calling on the name of the Lord that washes away sins and saves us.

Similarly it’s not the baptism that saves in Acts 2:38, it’s the repentance, per Acts 3:19, that you ignore, where it’s repentance that gets our sins forgiven, without water.

Water baptism remains a ritual done after having salvational faith and repentance, symbolizing the inner washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirt, and NOT to BE REGENERATED by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Curtis]

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound (Increasing in some translations), they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall2 Peter 1:5-10)

That Peter said in the above scripture, that our calling AND ELECTION is NOT SURE, until WE MAKE IT sure by ADDING to our faith, the fruit of virtue, Godliness and love (charity). so that IF we do those things we will never FALL and will end up being admitted into heaven, is fatal to the doctrine of OSAS, and falsifies it completely.

And falsifies Calvinists election dogma, too.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Herein lies the error in your theology which leads to complacency and inaction. Walking is an action and has a direction and implies a journey, Your theology is one of no walking, no journey and inaction..... basically faith without works.... a belief that belief is all we need, but the devils in hell also believe and tremble. Faith without works is dead (James 2:26) Works always follow faith, And by works faith is made perfect (James 2:22)

Peter writes of this Process When he speaks of the things we are to add to our faith in 2 Peter 1:5-10, which your theology has no room for for if we are "Complete" already why do we need to add to our faith anything? So Yes we have all we need for Godliness but we have to apply what we are given in our own lives and walk in the journey to Holiness, and put our faith to action, and thereby produce the fruit of the Spirit, or we can remain a fruitless branch that does not abide in the vine and withers and dies.

According to your theology....
And 200 other theologies presented on this forum at any given time.
Stop attacking other members beliefs...share yours without attempting to shove it down their throats. Your theology has just as many holes in it as does the next. When Jesus returns we will all come to the full knowledge and understanding of His Truth.
It is ok to address the topic but do not make your debate a personal insult of any member.....we are here to share our beliefs and present opportunities to discuss them in a spirit of love and humility.
Thank you.
God Bless

 

[Addy]

I don't feel obliged to answer Curtis' very long list of scripture references... @Wynona ... I have discovered that when one has embraced
legalism... they will hunt and forage for anything to prove themselves right... so that they can hang onto their belief that they MUST perform in order to keep themselves saved.

This GOTCHA kind of mentality is not one that I enjoy partaking in and it has been happening in this thread A LOT....

I have had family telling me for the last twenty years that I can LOSE my salvation... and they had all the scripture to prove it...
They also have very nasty fruit themselves... fruit of hypocrisy.... harshness... condemnation... judgement of everyone around them... It really is a terribly unpleasant experience being in their presence... not to mention they are kill-joys... with their long lists of do's and don'ts.

Today... I have FREEDOM in CHRIST.... and oh how my soul SINGS... I have been convinced that GOD loves me... He is for me... not against me as the legalists would have me believe... HE sings over me with JOY... HE cherishes me... and invites me to partake in His banquet...

Does that sound like a God who is ready to rip away... and remove my salvation ???

Legalism is bad theology in my opinion... but I have discovered that MANY like to cling to it and even seem to get some sort of comfort from thinking they play a part in their salvation.... Personally... I am not so arrogant as to believe or think for one minute that I am GOOD enough for anything but HELL.... This is why I choose to CELEBRATE so LOUDLY... that I am SAVED by the BLOOD of the LAMB.... I am SAVED because HE loves me... and HE is GOOD... only HE is GOOD.... I can do NOTHING to add to that.... but I am still invited to partake.... BELIEVING this leaves me FREE to live my life in PEACE and JOY....

I do not think about sin.... but... it seems that sin is the only thing that legalists think about and want to talk about.... their eyes are always observing behaviour... and they refuse to take heed to the scripture that states... Man judges by outward appearances but God judges by the heart.

Anyways... that is why I do not find it necessary to give attention to anything that anyone posts regarding conditional salvation...

God desires us to live our lives joyfully... and free from ALL things that would harm us... HE is a GOOD FATHER... and more than capable of convicting and correcting us along the way.

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. ~2Corinthians 3:16-18

 

[farouk]

I don't feel obliged to answer Curtis' very long list of scripture references... @Wynona ... I have discovered that when one has embraced
legalism... they will hunt and forage for anything to prove themselves right... so that they can hang onto their belief that they MUST perform in order to keep themselves saved.

This GOTCHA kind of mentality is not one that I enjoy partaking in and it has been happening in this thread A LOT....

I have had family telling me for the last twenty years that I can LOSE my salvation... and they had all the scripture to prove it...
They also had very nasty fruit themselves... fruit of hypocrisy.... harshness... condemnation... judgement of everyone around them... It really was a terribly unpleasant experience being in their presence... not to mention they were kill-joys... with their long lists of do's and don'ts.

Today... I have FREEDOM in CHRIST.... and oh how my soul SINGS... I have been convinced that GOD loves me... He is for me... not against me as the legalists would have me believe... HE sings over me with JOY... HE cherishes me... and invites me to partake in His banquet...

Does that sound like a God who is ready to rip away... and remove my salvation ???

Legalism is bad theology in my opinion... but I have discovered that MANY like to cling to it and even seem to get some sort of comfort from thinking they play a part in their salvation.... Personally... I am not so arrogant as to believe or think for one minute that I am GOOD enough for anything but HELL.... This is why I choose to CELEBRATE so LOUDLY... that I am SAVED by the BLOOD of the LAMB.... I am SAVED because HE loves me... and HE is GOOD... only HE is GOOD.... I can do NOTHING to add to that.... but I am still invited to partake.... BELIEVING this leaves me FREE to live my life in PEACE and JOY....

I do not think about sin.... and it seems that sin is the only thing that legalists seem to think about... their eyes are always observing behaviour... and they refuse to take heed to the scripture that states... Man judges by outward appearances but God judges by the heart.

Anyways... that is why I do not find it necessary to give attention to anything that anyone posts regarding conditional salvation...

God desires us to live our lives joyfully... and free from ALL things that would harm us... HE is a GOOD FATHER... and more than capable of convicting and correcting us along the way.

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. ~2Corinthians 3:16-18

@Addy The resounding note with which an assuring passage such as Romans 8 ends should dispel any notion that the true believer is supposedly not eternally secure...

 

[Curtis]

I don't feel obliged to answer Curtis' very long list of scripture references... @Wynona ... I have discovered that when one has embraced
legalism... they will hunt and forage for anything to prove themselves right... so that they can hang onto their belief that they MUST perform in order to keep themselves saved.

This GOTCHA kind of mentality is not one that I enjoy partaking in and it has been happening in this thread A LOT....

I have had family telling me for the last twenty years that I can LOSE my salvation... and they had all the scripture to prove it...
They also had very nasty fruit themselves... fruit of hypocrisy.... harshness... condemnation... judgement of everyone around them... It really was a terribly unpleasant experience being in their presence... not to mention they were kill-joys... with their long lists of do's and don'ts.

Today... I have FREEDOM in CHRIST.... and oh how my soul SINGS... I have been convinced that GOD loves me... He is for me... not against me as the legalists would have me believe... HE sings over me with JOY... HE cherishes me... and invites me to partake in His banquet...

Does that sound like a God who is ready to rip away... and remove my salvation ???

Legalism is bad theology in my opinion... but I have discovered that MANY like to cling to it and even seem to get some sort of comfort from thinking they play a part in their salvation.... Personally... I am not so arrogant as to believe or think for one minute that I am GOOD enough for anything but HELL.... This is why I choose to CELEBRATE so LOUDLY... that I am SAVED by the BLOOD of the LAMB.... I am SAVED because HE loves me... and HE is GOOD... only HE is GOOD.... I can do NOTHING to add to that.... but I am still invited to partake.... BELIEVING this leaves me FREE to live my life in PEACE and JOY....

I do not think about sin.... but... it seems that sin is the only thing that legalists think about and want to talk about.... their eyes are always observing behaviour... and they refuse to take heed to the scripture that states... Man judges by outward appearances but God judges by the heart.

Anyways... that is why I do not find it necessary to give attention to anything that anyone posts regarding conditional salvation...

God desires us to live our lives joyfully... and free from ALL things that would harm us... HE is a GOOD FATHER... and more than capable of convicting and correcting us along the way.

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. ~2Corinthians 3:16-18

Im so glad you’re so very confident that the many warnings to the brethren by Paul to not let anyone deceive us and tell us we can live a sinful lifestyle and still enter heaven, is legalism.

Apparently Paul never got that memo that he was teaching legalism.

Good day.

 

[Addy]

Im so glad you’re so very confident that the many warnings to the brethren by Paul to not let anyone deceive us and tell us we can live a sinful lifestyle and still enter heaven, is legalism.

You guys have this FALSE belief that us GRACE believers promote... condone... and even embrace sin... This is NOT the case... but it seems to be what makes you feel better about trying to justify the BE GOOD and DO GOOD theory.

I am confident in the fact that GOD loves me... and that CHRIST paid the penalty for my sin... and every one else's.

The reason I am NOT a legalist is because I am not allowing ANYONE to deceive me.

 

[Addy]

Oh come, let us worship and bow down;
Let us kneel before the Lord our Maker.
7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture,
And the sheep of His hand.

Psalm 95:6-8

 

[David H.]

According to your theology....
And 200 other theologies presented on this forum at any given time.
Stop attacking other members beliefs...share yours without attempting to shove it down their throats. Your theology has just as many holes in it as does the next. When Jesus returns we will all come to the full knowledge and understanding of His Truth.
It is ok to address the topic but do not make your debate a personal insult of any member.....we are here to share our beliefs and present opportunities to discuss them in a spirit of love and humility.
Thank you.
God Bless

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: (2 Timothy 4:1-7)

 

[David H.]

According to your theology....

 

[Truther]

And you skipped Romans 10:8-13 saved with no water involved.

Here’s how Romans 13 reads,for example: for whosoever CALLS UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be SAVED.

Here’s how you wish it read: whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord and is baptized, shall be saved.

It’s not the water that saved when Paul was told to arise, be baptized and wash away your sins , CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD - per Romans 10:13, above, it’s calling on the name of the Lord that washes away sins and saves us.

Similarly it’s not the baptism that saves in Acts 2:38, it’s the repentance, per Acts 3:19, that you ignore, where it’s repentance that gets our sins forgiven, without water.

Water baptism remains a ritual done after having salvational faith and repentance, symbolizing the inner washing of regeneration by the Holy Spirt, and NOT to BE REGENERATED by the Holy Spirit.

You cannot proceed to Romans unless you have first obeyed Acts 2:38.

This is mail theft.

You have no business rummaging through the Acts 2:38 saints' mail.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I do not think about sin.... but... it seems that sin is the only thing that legalists think about and want to talk about....

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2)

Paul goes on to mention “sin” 14 more times in Romans 6 alone.

I guess Paul the Apostle fits your description of a “legalist”.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: (2 Timothy 4:1-7)

And what makes your doctrine more sound over others?
My point is that some believe in the rapture before the tribulation, others in the middle of the tribulation, and others at the end....
Some believe in losing your salvation, others believe once saved always saved.
Some believe in modern day apostles and prophets, others believe that ended with the original 12.
Some believe you must be baptized by water to be saved, others believe confessing Jesus as the Son of God and asking Him to be your Lord and Savior is how you are saved.
Sound doctrine? Scripture says do not follow the doctrines of men....the only doctrine that is sound is the doctrine of Jesus Christ, salvation, and serving Him.
So in conclusion you are quick to judge others by what they believe but even your belief is based on the religious denominational doctrine you were taught and came to accept.

Here is where we must reason together and let the Holy Spirit guide us into all truth.

God Bless

 

[Addy]

And what makes your doctrine more sound over others?
My point is that some believe in the rapture before the tribulation, others in the middle of the tribulation, and others at the end....
Some believe in losing your salvation, others believe once saved always saved.
Some believe in modern day apostles and prophets, others believe that ended with the original 12.
Some believe you must be baptized by water to be saved, others believe confessing Jesus as the Son of God and asking Him to be your Lord and Savior is how you are saved.
Sound doctrine? Scripture says do not follow the doctrines of men....the only doctrine that is sound is the doctrine of Jesus Christ, salvation, and serving Him.
So in conclusion you are quick to judge others by what they believe but even your belief is based on the religious denominational doctrine you were taught and came to accept.

Here is where we must reason together and let the Holy Spirit guide us into all truth.

God Bless

WOW.... I know this was not addressed to me... but this has been my struggle in the forums... Not the rapture or end times stuff... but the today and now stuff... I am not very good with my acceptance skills... I have had to fight so hard for FREEDOM from bondage...
The issue of eternal security is a deal breaker for me... I don't find this to be non-essential but rather absolutely essential to freedom in CHRIST.

I like what you said about not following the doctrine of men. My doctrine is based on the ABSOLUTES of God...

He is GOOD... He is not angry.... He is not keeping score of our deeds... He knows all... sees all... is ALL POWERFUL and ALMIGHTY.
He will one day judge the living and the dead... and because of HIS precious son who was sent to pay for all my sins... I shall be in heaven some day with HIM... I am SECURE as a child of GOD and all His promises are for me. That is my doctrine. The rest does not matter.

 

[marks]

So were not gonna address Curtis' post with these verses and the clear warnings?

Im waiting for a good response to this!

Pick a passage, exegete it, and let's talk.

@Curtis

 

[Addy]

exegete

Ok.... I have to look that up.... that does not happen often.... LOL

 

[marks]

Today... I have FREEDOM in CHRIST.... and oh how my soul SINGS... I have been convinced that GOD loves me... He is for me... not against me as the legalists would have me believe... HE sings over me with JOY... HE cherishes me... and invites me to partake in His banquet...

I've spent literally years looking at every last verse in the Bible which people use to support this thinking. Lists of hundreds of verses, I've combed through them one by one, examining the original language, dozens of translations, commentators, all sorts of things.

I've not yet found a single passage which tells us that being born again can end. And I've found so many that assure me it does not. We live because Christ lives in us, and He lives forever. He lives in us because of what He did, and not what we do.

It's as simple as that.

I'll be going back to @Curtis 's list . . . it's not so many really. I've already looked over it. In the usual manner, not one of them affirms that salvation might be lost.

Much love!

 

[Addy]

've not yet found a single passage which tells us that being born again can end. And I've found so many that assure me it does not. We live because Christ lives in us, and He lives forever. He lives in us because of what He did, and not what we do.

It's as simple as that.

YES... it is as simple as that.... and that simplicity is VITAL to a loving RELATIONSHIP.... One cannot surrender and submit under fear and duress... that is simply OBEDIENCE.... God wants our love and devotion.... and from that ... our behaviour flows.