"Please Report Heresy"

[Grailhunter]

So our Bibles are not trustworthy? I have found them to be very consistent.

Define trustworthy.
Odds are good that you have a book about Christianity that does not have the name of God the Father or God the Son in it.
I am not only going to ask if that is aright by you but also...who would want to take the names of God the Father and God the Son out of scriptures? The rest I explained to you....whatever you believe is your business, but how can you say they are consistent without those names? How can you say they are consistent if you do not compare them to the scriptures.

 

[Grailhunter]

And with each new translation the original meaning gets even more diluted.
I was thinking about all the languages the Bible is printed in and there are some words in Hebrew and Greek that cannot be translated into another language because they don't have a word to fit the original meaning.

This would be true of nearly any translation of any language, but if you throw into the mix an antient culture then you have more difficulties.
The New Testament was written in Pagan languages...mostly Greek and some Aramaic. The Apostles were tasked with taking a Pagan language and using it to express Christian beliefs. To do that they would use words close to the desired meaning or modify the meaning. Beyond that like I asked Kcnalp, who would want to remove God the Father's and God the Son's name from the scriptures? Then you have all players....characters....any name you see in biblical translations that start with J...you can look it up and they were Y's....Yob...Yames...Yacob....Yoshua....etc. Then along the way people would reword things to support their theology or add stories that they believed really happened and would benefit the Bible.

Once you understand the errors you can keep them in mind when you read the Bible. You remember when I posted a list of 300 contradictions and you told me to remove them. No hard feelings, but I had a point to make. They handed that to us in college and divided them up among the class. The task was to explain them....preparation for debates. Most could be explained, either incorrect translations, context, or differences between the Old and New Testament.

Some believe that they are not smart enough to translate from the scriptures on their own. You would be surprised. It takes a little bit of learning and it is good to know the culture. But the errors will stand out when you compare them, most certainly the things that are just not there and the things that could not be translated the way we have them in our Bible.

So with the topic here being heresy...historically the Catholics and Protestants accused each other of heresy, they did not always know the scriptures to define heresy. And then there is a lot of adlib doctrines that over write the scriptures.

 

[Ziggy]

her•e•sy hĕr′ĭ-sē
n. An opinion or a doctrine at variance with established religious beliefs, especially dissension from or denial of Roman Catholic dogma by a professed believer or baptized church member.
n. Adherence to such dissenting opinion or doctrine.

Should it be reported?

I'm an advocate for free speech and people should be able to share their opinions, whether everyone agrees or not.
I find that when people disagree it gives an opportunity to look into a matter more deeply,
rather than yes yes, move to the next subject..

Sometimes during debate or disagreement a better understanding or a deeper meaning of something is revealed.
I don't believe everyone has the same perfect answer, even to the most fundamental beliefs.
Knowledge is fluid. And the Lord can and will either add to it or take from it, according to how one receives it.
We don't know how God uses the ear to hear.
If something is obviously opposed to the characteristics of God himself and how he shows us His ways,
then it is up to the church to discuss it. Reasonably. And determine if A. is more aligned with the character of God or B. is absolutely without a doubt opposed to God's character.

God never changes, but doctrines and teachings have a way of being added to or subtracted from the original intention.

If someone is offended by another person's opinion....
Then that person should find others that support their opinion.
If the opposing party stands by their opinion, then they also need to find other of the same oppsing view.
Then there is a discussion or a debate, research and a lot of soul searching and scripture study to determine which can be agreed upon by the hmmm majority?
That doesn't mean the majority is always right, but are willing to agree to the closeness of the acuracy they can come.
But even over time, new understanding is given. New revelations are revealed.

And because the person claiming heresy is not the one receiving these revelations, doesn't make them untrue.
It just requires more study.

I personally do not believe the Bible has been explained to it's fullest capacity.
I believe everyone is able to find something new, a discovery, of something that was missed before.

If scripture was the be all and end all of God's word, then there never would have been new scriptures that went into detail what was missed in the old scriptures. God's word is always moving. It moves among the people.
The written word or the letter is a guide. Much like the OT was a guide to Christ, and not the total package.
I'm sure many in the New Testament faced a lot of heresy charges because they sounded different from Torah.
We see this throughout most of Paul's letters when he is discussing the operation of circumcision for instance.
Something , a new deeper understanding , a spiritual meaning lain under the Old Testament and was newly brought to light.
I don't believe Paul had enough hours in his life to write every single thing that needed to be written.

And even if he had, it was not what was written that had the preeminence. It was how the people grew from that knowledge.
We are the manifestation of the letters written in the NT. We are the manifestation of the Gospel.
And no two lives are exactly the same. We don't all experience life in the same manner.
I don't believe the Bible is a tabernacle we all need to conform to, but we are to strive to live according to the principles and morals within it.

I don't have a problem with what some call heresy. The reason being, it gives me an opportunity to look at that topic, whatever it may be, from a different point of view. And by looking at things from different angles, we are able to get a better full view of the salvation plan.

I agree there are some things that are just fundamental truths. These that don't change from age to age.
I do not believe there is argument that we should not lie or steal or murder.
I believe we all generally agree, this is a solid foundation. You could say solid ground. Like a rock.

Even these (lie, steal, murder) have multiple levels of understanding.
Example. Jesus says, iif you hate your brother in your heart, you have committed murder.
You don't have to go out and physically take one's life by force in order for murder to apply.
And I believe there are many many more such "deeper truths" we have yet to seek out and find.

So when someone comes in with a different opinion, sincerely and not just to be a contentuous boob, then I believe that person has a reasonable right to be heard out, of how the words have meaning to them. Because the Lord could always be revealing something new.
But if we're not willing to at least listen, investigate, reprove... then we might miss an opportunity to learn something God is trying to teach us.

Not everything ever needing to be written is in the Bible.
It is also written as the epistles in our hearts. And as we grow as a church, knowledge increases.
I just think we should be willing to listen to each others hearts.

Hugs

 

[Heart2Soul]

Define trustworthy.
Odds are good that you have a book about Christianity that does not have the name of God the Father or God the Son in it.
I am not only going to ask if that is aright by you but also...who would want to take the names of God the Father and God the Son out of scriptures? The rest I explained to you....whatever you believe is your business, but how can you say they are consistent without those names? How can you say they are consistent if you do not compare them to the scriptures.

I recently read that back before the Protestant movement began and the KJV was put into print, that the only person privileged to read the original scrolls were the higher ranking priests....also there are scrolls in the Vatican library that is not for the public to see.

 

[Heart2Soul]

You remember when I posted a list of 300 contradictions and you told me to remove them

I don't remember but I can imagine at the time I was a new moderator, I didn't know you that well, and was skeptical of your intentions.....
So if you would like to offer up this list again I would have no problem with it.

 

[amadeus]

If you don't believe our Bibles what do you believe?

The Word of God! Is that exactly the same?

 

[Grailhunter]

I recently read that back before the Protestant movement began and the KJV was put into print, that the only person privileged to read the original scrolls were the higher ranking priests....also there are scrolls in the Vatican library that is not for the public to see.

LOL Chained to the pulpit! Before the advent of printing presses, Bibles were hand written and hand illustrated and decorated. Very expensive. The Catholics did not allow people to have Bibles, the scriptures were only to be interpreted by the Church. Independent translations were forbid upon pain of death...William Tyndale found that out the hard way.

The Vatican has the largest and oldest religious library in the world. They are in the process of digitizing it now....we can only hope that it will be released to the public.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't remember but I can imagine at the time I was a new moderator, I didn't know you that well, and was skeptical of your intentions.....
So if you would like to offer up this list again I would have no problem with it.

Like is said, no hard feelings.
The point has been made, that is good enough.

 

[amadeus]

Good question!
If you questioned the accuracy of all translations...where would you look to find the "most" original scriptures?

Turn your eyes always on Jesus!

 

[Heart2Soul]

The Word of God! Is that exactly the same?

The word Bible actually means book...
It is the English version of the Koine Greek biblia...

 

[Heart2Soul]

Like is said, no hard feelings.
The point has been made, that is good enough.

Well send it to me in a PM...I am curious.

 

[Heart2Soul]

LOL Chained to the pulpit! Before the advent of printing presses, Bibles were hand written and hand illustrated and decorated. Very expensive. The Catholics did not allow people to have Bibles, the scriptures were only to be interpreted by the Church. Independent translations were forbid upon pain of death...William Tyndale found that out the hard way.

The Vatican has the largest and oldest religious library in the world. They are in the process of digitizing it now....we can only hope that it will be released to the public.

You are the live, walking version of the Encyclopedia Britannica...lok

 

[Grailhunter]

Well send it to me in a PM...I am curious.

This thing is huge

 

[DPMartin]

Why do YOU have a problem with something that some of us find interesting? Why don't you use the "report" option instead of a personal attack for no valid reason?

hey, you posted something on a public forum, if you don't like what the responses are, then maybe you shouldn't post your opinions on public forums.

 

[Ziggy]

Consider the word ‘sacrifice’. Traditionally it is understood as God requiring the death of a victim but sacrifice can also be understood as God giving his ‘life’ as opposed to his death. We killed him, not God. We couldn’t handle God’s kindness and he allowed us to take his life not because he needed somebody dead but because he wanted us to see the extent God would go. It revealed his love.

God provided his own flesh and blood (son) body, that which he resided in, to be a sacrifice for us.
God allowed his Temple to be destroyed, and three days later rose it up incorruptible.
Death (the body of flesh cursed and filled with sin) (because He had taken all of our sins and the curse upon himself) had no power over the LIFE.
(God's seed/Spirit) within the flesh.

The Life was held in bondage by the curse of the flesh. The flesh was willingly sacrificed and loosed the pains of death upon the Life within it.
Free indeed.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

It is this... what we see.. we see the flesh. the flesh was given a name. That name is Jesus. God was in Jesus. God was in the flesh.
The flesh called Jesus was created or was manifested for the purpose of suffering death. While God's seed was in the flesh,
The seed did not die, but tasted death while in the flesh. God experienced death through the flesh, but God did not die.
The flesh which we see and call Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins. And to remove the curse of death by overcoming death with life.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

But by my name Jehovah they did not know me...
But by my name Jesus they did not know me..

God came to fulfill his own prophecy. Regardless of what "nation" crucified... mankind as whole is guilty.
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Everything man had done from the fall of Adam until the Death of Jesus was brought upon all of mankind.
There is none righteous, no not one.
Because of our sin, our disobedience, mankind, flesh, God needed a sacrifice in order to redeem his creation.
Reconciliation.

It is no one's individual fault, it is not one nations fault, it is not one generations fault.
It is Man's disobedience from the first to the last, that God gave his Son (temple, body) to be sacrificed for all men.
The curse only remains for those who refuse the gift that God has offered, which was his very existance as a man upon the face of the earth.
God gave us his flesh and blood.
This is my body which is broken for you.
Do this in rememberance of me.

Me who?
The flesh and blood body, or the one which inhabited the body and gave it as a sacrifice for us?

Do we remember the lamb, or the one who provided the lamb?
And if the lamb provided itself.. by the one which provides all things,
Then the lamb recieves the honor and the glory by reason of submission and willingness to do what he was sent to do.
Life is in the blood.
God's life was poured out..
God's Spirit was poured out..
Pentacost. Like the early rain.

just thinking..
Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

The Vatican has the largest and oldest religious library in the world. They are in the process of digitizing it now....we can only hope that it will be released to the public.

That would be suicidal. If they were to release everything they had, in order to preserve their own survival most of it would have to be redacted.

 

[Grailhunter]

That would be suicidal. If they were to release everything they had, in order to preserve their own survival most of it would have to be redacted.

LOL The library is history and things they had done in the past. You might be surprised as to what they have officially made apologies for. Should Christians forgive?
Granted that records kept pertaining to the witnessed and documented tortures of the witch-hunts and inquisitions would be rather gruesome.

 

[amadeus]

God provided his own flesh and blood (son) body, that which he resided in, to be a sacrifice for us...

Me who?
The flesh and blood body, or the one which inhabited the body and gave it as a sacrifice for us?

Do we remember the lamb, or the one who provided the lamb?
And if the lamb provided itself.. by the one which provides all things,
Then the lamb recieves the honor and the glory by reason of submission and willingness to do what he was sent to do.
Life is in the blood.
God's life was poured out..
God's Spirit was poured out..
Pentacost. Like the early rain.

just thinking..
Hugs

Keep on thinking!

"And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:8

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18

"But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;" Acts 2:16

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:28

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:38-39

 

[Gregory]

The word Bible actually means book...
It is the English version of the Koine Greek biblia...

I could be wrong, but I think the word bible means "books", or a collection of books. Obviously bound together in 1 book.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I could be wrong, but I think the word bible means "books", or a collection of books.

Ok