"Please Report Heresy"

[quietthinker]

The essence of scripture is spiritual with a historical backdrop. Hearts that are without integrity will never get it because God is not mocked.

 

[quietthinker]

God provided his own flesh and blood (son) body, that which he resided in, to be a sacrifice for us.
God allowed his Temple to be destroyed, and three days later rose it up incorruptible.
Death (the body of flesh cursed and filled with sin) (because He had taken all of our sins and the curse upon himself) had no power over the LIFE.
(God's seed/Spirit) within the flesh.

The Life was held in bondage by the curse of the flesh. The flesh was willingly sacrificed and loosed the pains of death upon the Life within it.
Free indeed.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

It is this... what we see.. we see the flesh. the flesh was given a name. That name is Jesus. God was in Jesus. God was in the flesh.
The flesh called Jesus was created or was manifested for the purpose of suffering death. While God's seed was in the flesh,
The seed did not die, but tasted death while in the flesh. God experienced death through the flesh, but God did not die.
The flesh which we see and call Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins. And to remove the curse of death by overcoming death with life.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

But by my name Jehovah they did not know me...
But by my name Jesus they did not know me..

God came to fulfill his own prophecy. Regardless of what "nation" crucified... mankind as whole is guilty.
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Everything man had done from the fall of Adam until the Death of Jesus was brought upon all of mankind.
There is none righteous, no not one.
Because of our sin, our disobedience, mankind, flesh, God needed a sacrifice in order to redeem his creation.
Reconciliation.

It is no one's individual fault, it is not one nations fault, it is not one generations fault.
It is Man's disobedience from the first to the last, that God gave his Son (temple, body) to be sacrificed for all men.
The curse only remains for those who refuse the gift that God has offered, which was his very existance as a man upon the face of the earth.
God gave us his flesh and blood.
This is my body which is broken for you.
Do this in rememberance of me.

Me who?
The flesh and blood body, or the one which inhabited the body and gave it as a sacrifice for us?

Do we remember the lamb, or the one who provided the lamb?
And if the lamb provided itself.. by the one which provides all things,
Then the lamb recieves the honor and the glory by reason of submission and willingness to do what he was sent to do.
Life is in the blood.
God's life was poured out..
God's Spirit was poured out..
Pentacost. Like the early rain.

just thinking..
Hugs

Forgiveness by its very nature does not require a payment. If a payment is required it is a trade.

I would ask, can not God forgive gratuitously? I believe he can. Jesus demonstrated this several times; the case of the paralytic comes to mind.

The question we must now ask is, how is it that we associate Jesus’ death with payment?.....and who was he paying?

 

[Ziggy]

The essence of scripture is spiritual with a historical backdrop. Hearts that are without integrity will never get it because God is not mocked.

integrity is a hard thing to find these days.
calloused hearts, ears that can't hear, eyes that can't see.
we are our own idols.
That's what needs to be cast down and cast out.. that ego.
Mankind always following idols made with their own hands, their own fortunes, their fames.

Integrity..
I bet that would make a good study.
Maybe ther's already one made..
I'll check it out.

Thank You
Hugs

 

[Brakelite]

The library is history and things they had done in the past.

Yes. Exactly my point. Some of those records are all that remains of the existence of those people who today the Vatican calls heretics. Exposing previously unknown crimes would have them apologizing for centuries. And no. There is no reason whatsoever why I or anyone else can, or needs to forgive an institution for anything. Those atrocities and acts of genocide eye committed against people now long dead... When those are resurrected let those Popes and their secular servants face them then and apologize... To them and to God

 

[Grailhunter]

Bible
Word Bible; From the Greeks > Latin > Old French > English
Greek biblia or plural biblos
1. Collection of writings. For the Greeks near to the concept of a library.
2. Religious; pertaining to the Christian bible.
3. Informal; any authorities book on a variety of topics.

Christian usage: Surviving historical record shows the term was coined around 223 A.D. Referring to the then loose texts of the Christian congregations. (No church buildings) Building of church buildings did not start until after the edict of Millan. The original church of the Holy Apostles in Jerusalem was dedicated in about 330 A.D. by Emperor Constantine. The first time that the Christian texts were bound in a book was by order and financing of Emperor Constantine. Circa 331 A.D. The Fifty Bibles of Constantine which supposedly bore the inscription HOLY BIBLE.

 

[Ziggy]

Forgiveness by its very nature does not require a payment. If a payment is required it is a trade.

I would ask, can not God forgive gratuitously? I believe he can. Jesus demonstrated this several times; the case of the paralytic comes to mind.

The question must now ask is, how is it that we associate Jesus’ death with payment?.....and who was he paying?

Because God repented himself for what he "thought" to do.

only wickedness continually.
it repented the Lord that he had made man. because their wickedness was so great.
He sent John the Baptist as the Days of Noah. To wash us and cleanse us and begin as new.
He walked among us for almost 40 years teaching and giving us His word.
His word was like Fire that rained down on Sodom melting the hearts of wax, opening the ears and the eyes.

The only way the Lord could repent himself was to offer himself as a sacrifice for us.
God did it for His own Glory.
His Integrity of keeping His own law.
Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

God had to forgive himself, for his own thoughts.
Exo 32:14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

the mediator...
why do we need a mediator?
If God does not maintain Justice, bare the rod, Hold the line,
then all would become lawlessness.
The Punishment must fit the crime.
But God is also Merciful, loving, kind, longsuffering..
and willing to lay down his life for the sheep.

Fire and Water, Hot and Cold..Justice and Mercy..
The Ying and the Yang.

Our God is a Powerful God. Our God is a Jealous God.
Our God is a Merciful God. Our God is Kind.

God was angry. God sent John. The father sent the son.
Because of what he "thought to do" he sent messengers to warn us.
The two witnesses before the Great and Glorious Day.
God did not spare the world in Noah's day. Only 8 souls (seeds) remained.
God did not spare Sodom and Gomorrah. Only 3 souls (seeds) remained. Lot and his two daughters.
Abraham bargained for 10.
When John baptised he baptised whole towns. When Jesus walked, the crowds surrounded him.
Hosannah in the Highest!

God had mercy on us. But he had thought to find none.
Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Luk 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

God found faith in many that he walked among.

Amo 5:16 Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
Amo 5:17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amo 5:19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
Amo 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Amo 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
Amo 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Angry.
Vengeful

This is what Jesus told the people:
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The last trumpet, the final warning.

Jer 26:13 Therefore now amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; and the LORD will repent him of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.

God told Moses to write down his laws for a reason.
And if God intended man to keep them, then do unto others as you would have done unto you.

Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these.
Lev 5:5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing:
Lev 5:6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
Lev 5:7 And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering.
Lev 5:8 And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder:
Lev 5:9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering.
Lev 5:10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him.

There's always a loophole :)

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Kind of, your danged if ya do, or your danged if ya don't.

I'm thinking, we wouldn't be here right now if God didn't send a lamb for the atonement.
But because it repenteth the Lord of what he thought to do, and because it was the good thing to do..

The Lord laid his own life down as an atonement for all sin.

Now satan tried to get the Lord to forget about that..
He put all obstacles in his way.
But he remained true to his word.
The integrity of his heart.

Just thinking..
Hugs

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes. Exactly my point. Some of those records are all that remains of the existence of those people who today the Vatican calls heretics. Exposing previously unknown crimes would have them apologizing for centuries. And no. There is no reason whatsoever why I or anyone else can, or needs to forgive an institution for anything. Those atrocities and acts of genocide eye committed against people now long dead... When those are resurrected let those Popes and their secular servants face them then and apologize... To them and to God

Which brings up a good topic; What does forgiveness mean in Christianity? What is the alternative? Is forgiveness a tenant of faith?
Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us? Is there duel benefits of forgiveness?

Is forgiveness a tenant of faith? Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us?
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

What is the alternative? Hate that festers. Hate and want are the driving forces for nearly all sins.

Is there duel benefits of forgiveness? We all want forgiveness from Christ and we should forgive others. We know there is a benefit for being forgiven, a lifting of guilt. But some do not realize the benefit for forgiving others. A heart full of hate can be freed of that dark corruption by forgiving others. It can be life changing. A life freed from hate.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Which brings up a good topic; What does forgiveness mean in Christianity? What is the alternative? Is forgiveness a tenant of faith?
Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us? Is there duel benefits of forgiveness?

Is forgiveness a tenant of faith? Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us?
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

What is the alternative? Hate that festers. Hate and want are the driving forces for nearly all sins.

Is there duel benefits of forgiveness? We all want forgiveness from Christ and we should forgive others. We know there is a benefit for being forgiven, a lifting of guilt. But some do not realize the benefit for forgiving others. A heart full of hate can be freed of that dark corruption by forgiving others. It can be life changing. A life freed from hate.

Forgiveness is the key to unlock the chains that bind us.

 

[Ziggy]

Which brings up a good topic; What does forgiveness mean in Christianity? What is the alternative? Is forgiveness a tenant of faith?
Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us? Is there duel benefits of forgiveness?

Is forgiveness a tenant of faith? Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us?
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

What is the alternative? Hate that festers. Hate and want are the driving forces for nearly all sins.

Is there duel benefits of forgiveness? We all want forgiveness from Christ and we should forgive others. We know there is a benefit for being forgiven, a lifting of guilt. But some do not realize the benefit for forgiving others. A heart full of hate can be freed of that dark corruption by forgiving others. It can be life changing. A life freed from hate.

forgiveness with sincerity.

Some wounds are pretty deep. It's easy to say, I forgive you. It sometimes takes effort to do it.
Heretic..
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Can someone be a heretick if they only say they are sorry and yet keep doing the thing they say they are sorry for?

so rejection and forgiveness are not the same though.
You can still forgive but you don't have to accept the behavior.
Forgive the sinner but not the sin.. I hear that a lot..

Forgiveness releases you from all debt. And that debt would be to not forgive, or eye for eye and tooth for tooth, revenge.
Forgiveness releases you from the law of condemning others. Such as stoning.
By forgiving one another we are cancelling out each other's debt to be a debtor to the law.

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

thinking..
Hugs

 

[APAK]

Which brings up a good topic; What does forgiveness mean in Christianity? What is the alternative? Is forgiveness a tenant of faith?
Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us? Is there duel benefits of forgiveness?

Is forgiveness a tenant of faith? Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us?
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

What is the alternative? Hate that festers. Hate and want are the driving forces for nearly all sins.

Is there duel benefits of forgiveness? We all want forgiveness from Christ and we should forgive others. We know there is a benefit for being forgiven, a lifting of guilt. But some do not realize the benefit for forgiving others. A heart full of hate can be freed of that dark corruption by forgiving others. It can be life changing. A life freed from hate.

This is an interesting and overlooked topic. ..to whom do we attempt to forgive for transgressions done to us or our loved ones?

Regarding Matthew 6:15 and 18:21-22

Well the context comes to mind once again. What did Christ mean in Matthew concerning forgiveness? Was he saying to forgive an institution of past or current offenses? He was speaking of forgiveness on a PERSONAL level only. A transgression of someone you know that has affected you in some way negatively, and especially a brother or sister in Christ.

How can one really forgive impersonal and removed entities that do not affect you personally in your personal daily life? And then you have to target and isolate the one individual, or individuals in these entities that harmed you personally. Then there is a case to be made of forgiveness. It has to be placed on a personal level.

An organization, a corporation, a denomination or in this case the Vatican. This is not the forgiveness owed and commanded for any Christian to provide in these case. These are in God the Father's realm and not ours.

So if you are suggesting to forgive the Vatican for its past crimes, then I say no. It cannot be done and not encouraged. This is for God the Father to judge as he sees fit. Can we forgive a company as a whole that had to laid you off and even many others, I say again no. Can you forgive a boss who fires you for no just cause, I say YES, of course.

Can I forgive the FDA for approving a drug that is experimental and shown to be unsafe and caused my child to die. No. Can I forgive the specific person or persons responsible for approving the drug in the FDA, callously and irresponsibly if the facts prove this out. Yes I can. I guess the point is made.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is an interesting and overlooked topic. ..to whom do we attempt to forgive for transgressions done to us or our loved ones?

Regarding Matthew 6:15 and 18:21-22

Well the context comes to mind once again. What did Christ mean in Matthew concerning forgiveness? Was he saying to forgive an institution of past or current offenses? He was speaking of forgiveness on a PERSONAL level only. A transgression of someone you know that has affected you in some way negatively, and especially a brother or sister in Christ.

How can one really forgive impersonal and removed entities that do not affect you personally in your personal daily life? And then you have to target and isolate the one individual, or individuals in these entities that harmed you personally. Then there is a case to be made of forgiveness. It has to be placed on a personal level.

An organization, a corporation, a denomination or in this case the Vatican. This is not the forgiveness owed and commanded for any Christian to provide in these case. These are in God the Father's realm and not ours.

So if you are suggesting to forgive the Vatican for its past crimes, then I say no. It cannot be done and not encouraged. This is for God the Father to judge as he sees fit. Can we forgive a company as a whole that had to laid you off and even many others, I say again no. Can you forgive a boss who fires you for no just cause, I say YES, of course.

Can I forgive the FDA for approving a drug that is experimental and shown to be unsafe and caused my child to die. No. Can I forgive the specific person or persons responsible for approving the drug in the FDA, callously and irresponsibly if the facts prove this out. Yes I can. I guess the point is made.

Hatred runs deep, it talons can take you.
Not forgiving does not fix or help anything....Just something to hold in your heart.
Don't get me wrong, I have no soap box. I am ex-military and there is no way I can give you a body count. I just do not hate...do what I have to do.

 

[Ziggy]

Hatred runs deep, it talons can take you.
Not forgiving does not fix or help anything....Just something to hold in your heart.
Don't get me wrong, I have no soap box. I am ex-military and there is no way I can give you a body count. I just do not hate...do what I have to do.

07
thank you for your service
Hugs

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hatred runs deep, it talons can take you.
Not forgiving does not fix or help anything....Just something to hold in your heart.
Don't get me wrong, I have no soap box. I am ex-military and there is no way I can give you a body count. I just do not hate...do what I have to do.

I remember back in 1986 sitting on my couch and flipping through channels and for some reason I stopped to listen to this pastor on TV...(Billy Jo Daugherty...pastor of Victory Christian Center...which would become my church later that year).....and he said someone is listening to this program who has a heart full of bitterness and if it continues it will spread like cancer and destroy my health, finances, relationships...virtually everything in my life....then he said the only way to get rid of.bitterness is to find the root of it and forgive the one who planted it.

Immediately called my mom, who I hadn't spoken to in 3 years, and began talking and told her I forgive her....(it's a long story)
And as soon as spoke those words we both.cried and I felt like 180 lbs (my moms weight) had been lifted off of.me.
I sought God in prayer and asked why it felt like weight being lifted off and He said everyone you hold unforgiveness towards you carry their weight of their sin against you. When you forgive it sets both of you free from that heavy burden
And yes, unforgiveness is a HEAVY BURDEN to carry around...hard to run and jump for joy when you're weighed down.

 

[Grailhunter]

I remember back in 1986 sitting on my couch and flipping through channels and for some reason I stopped to listen to this pastor on TV...(Billy Jo Daugherty...pastor of Victory Christian Center...which would become my church later that year).....and he said someone is listening to this program who has a heart full of bitterness and if it continues it will spread like cancer and destroy my health, finances, relationships...virtually everything in my life....then he said the only way to get rid of.bitterness is to find the root of it and forgive the one who planted it.

Immediately called my mom, who I hadn't spoken to in 3 years, and began talking and told her I forgive her....(it's a long story)
And as soon as spoke those words we both.cried and I felt like 180 lbs (my moms weight) had been lifted off of.me.
I sought God in prayer and asked why it felt like weight being lifted off and He said everyone you hold unforgiveness towards you carry their weight of their sin against you. When you forgive it sets both of you free from that heavy burden
And yes, unforgiveness is a HEAVY BURDEN to carry around...hard to run and jump for joy when you're weighed down.

So true so true!

 

[Ziggy]

Confession is good for guilt.
Guilt is a heavy burden too. It's something that lays hidden.
Once you confess it and expose it, that is allowing the darkness to come to the light.
repentance
receiving forgiveness and forgiving oneself.
You have to let the guilt go.
Some people forgive or are forgiven, and they forget to let go, and be healed.
Healing comes from forgiveness.
Like the leaves of a tree in paradise.
Healing, comfort, shade.

Like Jonah and the shade from the bush.
God was showing mercy and forgiveness to Jonah by providing him shade.

rambling...
Hugs

 

[Heart2Soul]

Confession is good for guilt.
Guilt is a heavy burden too. It's something that lays hidden.
Once you confess it and expose it, that is allowing the darkness to come to the light.
repentance
receiving forgiveness and forgiving oneself.
You have to let the guilt go.
Some people forgive or are forgiven, and they forget to let go, and be healed.
Healing comes from forgiveness.
Like the leaves of a tree in paradise.
Healing, comfort, shade.

Like Jonah and the shade from the bush.
God was showing mercy and forgiveness to Jonah by providing him shade.

rambling...
Hugs

Precious golden nuggets of truth! Amen!

 

[Brakelite]

Which brings up a good topic; What does forgiveness mean in Christianity? What is the alternative? Is forgiveness a tenant of faith?
Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us? Is there duel benefits of forgiveness?

Is forgiveness a tenant of faith? Must we forgive for Christ to forgive us?
Matthew 6:15 But if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you seven times, but seventy times seven.

What is the alternative? Hate that festers. Hate and want are the driving forces for nearly all sins.

Is there duel benefits of forgiveness? We all want forgiveness from Christ and we should forgive others. We know there is a benefit for being forgiven, a lifting of guilt. But some do not realize the benefit for forgiving others. A heart full of hate can be freed of that dark corruption by forgiving others. It can be life changing. A life freed from hate.

Forgiveness is absolutely a tenet of faith. And Matthew 5:16 doesn't need interpreting.
But I still don't believe it is my place to forgive an institution such as the papacy for crimes committed against others. She doesn't owe me an apology, and therefore I cannot forgive any debt to me as they're isn't one. Her debt is to society at large, to ask the millions affected both directly and indirectly by her bloody history and delusive lies. Who can forgive her in such a situation I don't know. Only God knows.

 

[Grailhunter]

Forgiveness is absolutely a tenet of faith. And Matthew 5:16 doesn't need interpreting.
But I still don't believe it is my place to forgive an institution such as the papacy for crimes committed against others. She doesn't owe me an apology, and therefore I cannot forgive any debt to me as they're isn't one. Her debt is to society at large, to ask the millions affected both directly and indirectly by her bloody history and delusive lies. Who can forgive her in such a situation I don't know. Only God knows.

You do not have to do anything! That is a fact. We do not have to forgive the Japanese for Pearl Harbor. The Jews do not have to forgive the Germans for the holocaust or the Egyptians for enslaving them. We do not have to forgive the Mexicans for the Alamo. The blacks do not have to forgive the southern Americans for enslaving them. The south does not have to forgive the north for how they treated them after the war. The Indians do not have to forgive us for taking their land and corralling them up. We do not have to forgive the British for the Revolutionary War. There is a lot of that hate baggage that could be hauled around. But still that is our choice, but it is about Christians forgiving Christians. I am not judging you....do what you want.

 

[Addy]

Forgiveness is absolutely a tenet of faith. And Matthew 5:16 doesn't need interpreting.
But I still don't believe it is my place to forgive an institution such as the papacy for crimes committed against others. She doesn't owe me an apology, and therefore I cannot forgive any debt to me as they're isn't one. Her debt is to society at large, to ask the millions affected both directly and indirectly by her bloody history and delusive lies. Who can forgive her in such a situation I don't know. Only God knows.

You are expressing RIGHTEOUS anger... and that is different than forgiveness... there is NO forgiveness for the sins of the Catholic church. God will deal with her... in the mean time... KEEP your ANGER towards her and other institutions at the FEET of CHRIST.

In these forums... we do not know each other and the rules are a bit difference... We have been given the luxury of
the IGNORE button... as well as the choice NOT to engage with someone. I find IGNORING and DISMISSING some is
most effective. There are some topics that I believe are TOXIC...and adding to them is simply a waste of time. There
are some contributors that I do not find worthy of being listened to and/or supported so I will not feed the beast.

I think forgiveness is simply releasing an offence and giving it to God... allowing him to heal the hurt that others have caused
your heart....That takes time... and it certainly does NOT mean you have to re-engage with the person who has hurt you.

Saying I'm sorry ( asking for forgiveness ) from someone we have hurt seems to be something that some are not willing to do.
I find it easy to ask for forgiveness...It bothers me when things are not right and I know I have contributed to it.

It is the flow of life... sometimes we need to forgive... and sometimes we need to be forgiven... One tests our faith... and the other tests our humility.

 

[APAK]

Hatred runs deep, it talons can take you.
Not forgiving does not fix or help anything....Just something to hold in your heart.
Don't get me wrong, I have no soap box. I am ex-military and there is no way I can give you a body count. I just do not hate...do what I have to do.

I agree, 'real' hate or hatred can fester and eat a person alive; even a community, and yes, even a nation. I've seen it in some people and I steer clear of them. They are the ones with a permanent chip on their shoulders. Fortunately, I have not had this disease in my life thus far, even though I do get these words of hate and hatred thrown into my face occasionally when I strongly reject someone's view or stand on strong principle. They mistake the human emotions of real irritation, frustration, disgust and opposition as being hateful toward a cause or person. They are not nearly the same thing. These are the fire-starters, the real agitators, the callous and irresponsible ones who actually cause more trouble in the long run. The secular world does this everyday by targeting their enemies of choice, in the MSM and in government, in politics as examples. They deliberately pit one group against another group by using the word hate, as they attempt to win political and power advantage.

The word hate today is misused a lot, and thrown around too freely. God still hates people today as he did in the past. This will not change, for quite a while into the future....there is a place for a Christian to feel hate in evil and demonic presence and with people who support true evil.

I then believe there is a 'healthy' spiritually sound reason for hate that is appropriate for any Christian to hold onto temporarily in the heart and then quickly release this emotion and attitude over to God for his keeping and resolution, especially when it all is about evil and lawlessness.

Just saying, we have to be really careful when one says you hate someone. Not to get all worked up and transmit and amplify more empty words that can plant seeds of needless long-term destruction. Most of the time it is not hate at all in question. It is someone's laziness and ignorance of the facts at hand. It's just easier for some to say hate, rather than saying you are being mean...

Big topic to squeeze in here...rant stopped

Wisdom says, there is "a time to love and a time to hate" ( Eccl 3:8 )

Bless you vet and for your service, as I'm one too...

APAK