Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?

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Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth?


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keithr

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It seems to me you want to reason on the scriptures in such a way that you're saying God programmed Adam and Eve to sin and die.
No, I'm saying that God was able to deduce that they would sin. He has allowed that to happen, and I would surmise that he allowed it for a good reason - perhaps because it's the best way for us to learn, by experience, of the effects of sin, and therefore to better equip us for an eternity of living without sin. As a result of Eve and Adam eating the fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", mankind has learned that living an evil, sinful life is bad for ourselves and for others, and that in order to live peaceful and enjoyable lives we all need to be good, and to love our neighbours. So God may have allowed us, even planned for us, to live with a sinful nature so that we fully understand its consequences.

God is also able to read all our thoughts, and I suspect that He can also read the thoughts of all the angels, including Satan. Therefore He probably knew how Satan would act when he saw God's creation of mankind, and He was able to predict that Satan would try to turn mankind to worship him rather than God.

As God said, Isaiah 55:9 (WEB):
(9) “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

We may be experiencing the effects of sinful living for a short while (short compared with eternity!), but "We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28 WEB).
 

Robert Gwin

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The Baptist bore witness of that light coming into the world. When the Spirit abode on Jesus, this is when Gods the Lord Jehovahs creation began. He is the breath of life. Jesus was the first of this unique creation.

Do you understand what begotten means?

Baptist
The Baptist bore witness of that light coming into the world. When the Spirit abode on Jesus, this is when Gods the Lord Jehovahs creation began. He is the breath of life. Jesus was the first of this unique creation.

Do you understand what begotten means?

Baptist gave his answer sir, and I replied. Yes sir, it means to be offspring of someone. In Jesus' case he is one of the sons of Jehovah, but as you stated he was unique, why? He was the only one of Jehovah's sons that was directly created by Jehovah without any assistance. Being the beginning of the creation of God, nothing else existed except Jehovah. Rev 3:14 Everything else that was created came through Jesus' hands, he was the master craftsman of Jehovah's creation Pro 8:30; Jn 1:1; Col 1:16
 
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Waiting on him

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Baptist gave his answer sir, and I replied. Yes sir, it means to be offspring of someone. In Jesus' case he is one of the sons of Jehovah, but as you stated he was unique, why? He was the only one of Jehovah's sons that was directly created by Jehovah without any assistance. Being the beginning of the creation of God, nothing else existed except Jehovah. Rev 3:14 Everything else that was created came through Jesus' hands, he was the master craftsman of Jehovah's creation Pro 8:30; Jn 1:1; Col 1:16
John the Baptist.

You have to see that I am also a son of God uniquely created of God, just as Jesus was. This is what the first chapter of The Gospel of John is talking about. No man had received the breath of life since Adam.

We are a new creation in Christ.

It’s why Jesus after the resurrection would breath on them and say receive the Holy Ghost.
 

Waiting on him

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John 1:12-13 KJV
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
this creation began in the first century. Even the calendar declares it.
 

Waiting on him

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John 1:6-8 KJV
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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No, I'm saying that God was able to deduce that they would sin. He has allowed that to happen, and I would surmise that he allowed it for a good reason - perhaps because it's the best way for us to learn, by experience, of the effects of sin, and therefore to better equip us for an eternity of living without sin. As a result of Eve and Adam eating the fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", mankind has learned that living an evil, sinful life is bad for ourselves and for others, and that in order to live peaceful and enjoyable lives we all need to be good, and to love our neighbours. So God may have allowed us, even planned for us, to live with a sinful nature so that we fully understand its consequences.

God is also able to read all our thoughts, and I suspect that He can also read the thoughts of all the angels, including Satan. Therefore He probably knew how Satan would act when he saw God's creation of mankind, and He was able to predict that Satan would try to turn mankind to worship him rather than God.

As God said, Isaiah 55:9 (WEB):
(9) “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.​

We may be experiencing the effects of sinful living for a short while (short compared with eternity!), but "We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28 WEB).

Just because Jehovah God had decided to make intelligent beings as free moral agents, and therefore knew there was the possibility for Adam and Eve to be disobedient doesn't mean he knew they would choose to be disobedient. Jehovah God loved his intelligent beings, both angels and humans and trusted they would love him to the point of being faithful to him. After all, with the exception of the angel that became Satan and his demons and Adam and Eve there have been millions upon millions of angels that have been consistently faithful to the true God, who have never sinned against him and that is because of their love for him.
Now you said that you believe God allowed disobedience because you surmised that the best way for us to learn of the effects of sin, is through experience. You're surmising that it's only through disobedience which means sin and death is the best way that the True God could teach Adam and Eve the truth about the himself? You're surmising that this way is the best way for us to be equipped for an eternal life without sin, is through experiencing sin and death. It seem to me that you're surmising that sin and death was part of God's plan or purpose and in agreement with his will. Nope, not going to agree with you. Sin and death was never part of God's purpose or plan and certainly wasn't in agreement with his will. Besides before this post I'm replying to here, you've been trying to get me to believe that this all happened before creation. How can God read anyone's minds when he hasn't created anyone yet. Have you changed your mind and no longer believe this all happened before God started creating.?
You can honestly believe or surmise that the best way for the true God to teach us the truth about him and his word is by being disobedient to him which means experiencing sin and death but I know from the scriptures that the True God has always required obedience, not disobedience. God doesn't change so I disagree with what you're surmising about the True God. You obviously think it was Gods plan or purpose from the start regarding Adam and Eve for them to be disobedient to him? Obviously you think this would be the best experience for them to learn the truth.
Now it's certainly true that the angel that became Satan and those who became his demons and Adam and Eve all betrayed the True God but that doesn't mean the True God assigned a saviour before they betrayed him. Because God is omniscient he certainly would know how to solve such a problem if such a event happened but that doesn't mean he assigned a seed to save mankind before he began creating or before he created Adam and Eve. The scriptures show that God assigned a seed to save mankind after Adam and Eve sinned not before. There are those who when they view certain phrases in scriptures such as, "before the foundation of the world," believe this is speaking of before God began creating or before he created Adam. They certainly have a right to their belief, it doesn't mean I have to agree with them. So if I or another person have good reason from the scriptures to believe differently, we will. I'm simply exercising my right to believe the way I believe the truth is in the scriptures, just as other people are. That scripture at 2 Timothy 1:9 ask yourself what age is that scripture speaking of. I ask because that verse of scripture in the context which it's written in is talking about those who are being saved. When that angel that became Satan did what he did in the garden of Eden he brought a world of sinful mankind or wicked mankind into existence. Satan is the God of that World or age. Mankind needed a savior from that world or this world since we are still living in that wicked world. The world that the True God created which included Adam and Eve wasn't a world in which Adam or Eve had inherited sin from the True God, because there's no sin in God and when God created them they were sinless, they were not created with a sinful nature. They were without spot or blemish until they sinned. So no seed of deliverance or no savior was needed until after they sinned. The thing is this however, that because Adam and Eve were not created with a sinful nature and that they were not created with spots and blemishes they have no excuse for sinning against God or being disobedient to him. The scriptures say Adam wasn't deceived and Eve knew who had brought her into existence who had given her not only life, but created a body for her so that she could have a enjoyable life. She knew that God had given her a wonderful home with satisfying enjoyable work. All these things Eve knew that the True God had done for her. However a serpent says some negative things about the True God, which are lies, and she believes him. She ate from the forbidden tree because just like the angel that became Satan, Eve desired something that didn't belong to her to desire. The point I'm making is the seed that is to save mankind can't save Adam and Eve. They're beyond salvation, lost forever. It's Adam and Eve offspring that the savior is for. Adam and Eve offspring are the one's who inherited sin from Adam, and so right from birth are spotted and blemished and have a sinful nature. Adam and Eve because they were created without a sinful nature, that they didn't have sin in the flesh, that they were without spot or blemish could have obeyed a perfect law if they had remained faithful, but because they did sin they're offspring cannot obey a perfect law so they need someone to come from the True God from heaven as a human who would be like Adam in all respect, having no sinful nature, who would be without spot or blemish and obey that perfect law and remain that way right up to death.
 

Robert Gwin

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John the Baptist.

You have to see that I am also a son of God uniquely created of God, just as Jesus was. This is what the first chapter of The Gospel of John is talking about. No man had received the breath of life since Adam.

We are a new creation in Christ.

It’s why Jesus after the resurrection would breath on them and say receive the Holy Ghost.

Adam as well was a son of God sir, but we who are procreated are not referred to as sons of God as far as I know. I could be very well wrong on that, so please correct me if I am.
 

Robert Gwin

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John 1:12-13 KJV
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
this creation began in the first century. Even the calendar declares it.

As you can see sir, we disagree.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Adam as well was a son of God sir, but we who are procreated are not referred to as sons of God as far as I know. I could be very well wrong on that, so please correct me if I am.

The apostles of Jesus Christ and all those anointed by God's Holy Spirit down to today, there being a remnant of those anointed by God's Holy Spirit in our day and so are sons of God altogether they will number 144000.
 

keithr

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The point I'm making is the seed that is to save mankind can't save Adam and Eve. They're beyond salvation, lost forever. It's Adam and Eve offspring that the savior is for.
I have to disagree with that! Jesus is the substitute for Adam. By his death Jesus paid Adam's penalty for sin, meaning that Adam can now be raisied to life again (and all of Adam's decendants too, because they only died because they inherited an imperfect and sinful nature, the effects of Adam's penalty).

"Yahweh God made a woman from the rib which he had taken from the man, and brought her to the man" (Genesis 2:22 WEB). Why did God do that, rather than creating a woman from scratch like He had done with Adam? Genesis 2:23-24 (WEB):
(23) The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. She will be called ‘woman,’ because she was taken out of Man.”
(24) Therefore a man will leave his father and his mother, and will join with his wife, and they will be one flesh.​

Adam and Eve were considered "one flesh", with Adam being the head. By paying Adam's penalty for disobedience, Eve too has been redeemed. That is why God made the woman from Adam's rib (God planning ahead, knowing what was going to happen!).

Adam and Eve were types for Jesus and the Church. Because of Adam's perfect love for Eve, he didn't want her to have to go through death on her own, and he didn't want to live without her, so that is why he willing ate the forbidden fruit, so that he would die with her. If he hadn't had done so then there would have been no redemption for Eve, but because of his sin and death, Jesus could become the saviour of both of them and all of their descendants. Similarly, because of Jesus' love for mankind, his death means that the bride of Christ, Christians, can also be raised to life, as well as the rest of mankind, eventually.

When the Scriptures say that Jesus died for "all", I believe that means what it says - Jesus died to save all mankind from death, including Adam and Eve.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 (KJV):
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 (WEB):
(14) For the love of Christ constrains us; because we judge thus, that one died for all, therefore all died.
(15) He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again.​

1 Corinthians 15:45 (WEB):
(45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
 

Robert Gwin

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The apostles of Jesus Christ and all those anointed by God's Holy Spirit down to today, there being a remnant of those anointed by God's Holy Spirit in our day and so are sons of God altogether they will number 144000.

I am impressed Barn, matter of fact amazed. That is an exactly correct statement sir, how is it you know that? Send me a personal letter in the inbox and tell me more about your faith.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I have to disagree with that! Jesus is the substitute for Adam. By his death Jesus paid Adam's penalty for sin, meaning that Adam can now be raisied to life again (and all of Adam's decendants too, because they only died because they inherited an imperfect and sinful nature, the effects of Adam's penalty).

"Yahweh God made a woman from the rib which he had taken from the man, and brought her to the man" (Genesis 2:22 WEB). Why did God do that, rather than creating a woman from scratch like He had done with Adam? Genesis 2:23-24 (WEB):
(23) The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh. She will be called ‘woman,’ because she was taken out of Man.”
(24) Therefore a man will leave his father and his mother, and will join with his wife, and they will be one flesh.​

Adam and Eve were considered "one flesh", with Adam being the head. By paying Adam's penalty for disobedience, Eve too has been redeemed. That is why God made the woman from Adam's rib (God planning ahead, knowing what was going to happen!).


1 Timothy 2:5-6 (KJV):
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

2 Corinthians 5:14-15 (WEB):
(14) For the love of Christ constrains us; because we judge thus, that one died for all, therefore all died.
(15) He died for all, that those who live should no longer live to themselves, but to him who for their sakes died and rose again.​

1 Corinthians 15:45 (WEB):
(45) So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

What people choose to believe they will choose to believe. As I said, God doesn't change. At numbers 35:31 there's a divine principle God gave to Israel: a deliberate murderer could not be ransomed. Again as I said, God doesn't change, so if that's how God viewed a deliberate murderer when he gave the law covenant to Israel then he has always viewed it that way about a unrepentant deliberate murderer.
Adam was under obligation to love, worship, and strictly obey the True God. More than that, the True God spelled out for Adam the simple law of obedience and fully informed Adam of the just and reasonable penalty for disobedience, when the True God said: "as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die." Adam by his course of action , brought death to all his offspring, so he was a murderer, and the scriptures say that he wasn't deceived so that means that Adam with full knowledge, willfully and deliberately chose to disobey God and then like a criminal he tried to hide. When the True God confronted Adam about what he had done instead of showing sorrow or regret or even asking God for forgiveness he instead tried to justify himself and pass the responsibility off on others.

You said at post #130:
Because of Adam's perfect love for Eve, he didn't want her to have to go through death on her own, and he didn't want to live without her, so that is why he willing ate the forbidden fruit, so that he would die with her. If he hadn't had done so then there would have been no redemption for Eve, but because of his sin and death, Jesus could become the saviour of both of them and all of their descendants. Similarly, because of Jesus' love for mankind, his death means that the bride of Christ, Christians, can also be raised to life, as well as the rest of mankind, eventually.[/Quote\]

I disagree that it was the Gods purpose, or his will that any of his creatures, angels or humans, to be disobedient to him. So you can believe that disobedience is what God's will and purpose was but I'm going to disagree with you. You continue to teach people that God's purpose was about his creatures being disobedient to him but I know the scriptures teach otherwise. Obedience to the True God is and has always been a requirement for God's creatures, angels and humans. So you saying that Adam joining Eve in disobedience was God's purpose or will that Adam and Eve represented to types, Jesus and the church, I disagree. It seems to me you will always join the side of disobedience.

Also I don't believe the scriptures teach love for a human should come before the love of the True God, which is actually what you're speaking of here. The scriptures have always taught that putting love for the True God first and foremost is the first love you are to have, which means being obedient to the True God, because if you love the True God, you have faith in him and so you are obedient to his commands understanding that your being obedient to his commands are in your best interests to obey, that having faith in obeying God's commands is good for you, that obeying his commands saves ones life and keeps one safe from harm. You can teach otherwise, which is what you're doing by how you speak why Adam disobeyed God, but I disagree with you.
 

Pierac

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These verses do imply that Jesus existed before his appearance on earth in human form:

Colossians 1:16 (WEB):

For by him all things were created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.

John 8:58 (WEB):

Jesus said to them, “Most certainly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM.” (or, "I existed")

Revelation 3:14 (WEB):

“To the angel of the assembly in Laodicea write: “The Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of God’s creation, says these things:

Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities." Evidently, Jesus has been given authority to restructure the arrangements of angels as well as being the agent for the creation of the body of Christ on earth, the Church.

This is the thought as we soon shall see in Hebrews 1 where the Angels are told to worship the Son. It is also the thought that Peter mentions in 1 Peter 3:21-22 where, after “the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who he is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to him, " it is the new Messianic order that God has brought in through Christ the Son that is under discussion. Just before his ascension into heaven at the father's right hand of power, Jesus declares that "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" (Matt.28:18). His resurrection has Jesus a new status, "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in the one to come" (Eph.1:21).

All of this is to reiterate that this hymn of praise concerns the new order of things that now exist since the resurrection of the Son. An eschatological shift of the ages has begun with Christ’s exaltation to the Father's right hand. God has "put all things in subjection under his [the resurrected Christ’s] feet" (Eph. 1-22). Paul repeats this thought in the next chapter of Colossians: "and he is the head over [or of] all rule and authority" (Col 2:10). In the words we looked at in Philippians 2, God has rewarded Jesus’ obedient death on the cross by highly exalting him, and bestowing on him "the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:8-10).


It is highly significant that in verse 18 Jesus attains to a supreme position, meaning that it he did not have it already. Thus he cannot have preexisted as God. If he did his final status would be more of a demotion than the promotion described by Paul.


If Jesus was God in the flesh then it is impossible to be a man. He would have been something entirely else. Not a man. This is why Jesus has to learn wisdom, Luke 2:40, Luke 2:52. God is all knowing. He does not need to learn anything. Paul tells us Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek, and something else.

Heb 5:6 "You are a priest forever, after the order of Melchizedek." 5 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.

It is an insult to say that God learned obedience! Jesus learned obedience because he was a man, a man like you and me not a hybrid. Most fail to understand the concept of Agency. When you kiss the Agent of the one sent, you are actually kissing the one whom the Agent represents. When you worship Jesus you are actually worshiping the One who sent Him. Thus Jesus comments

NASB Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

There is no God in the flesh hybrid (Theos aner) in these verses.

If Jesus is already God in the flesh then He can not have a God because it would be two Gods not one. Yet, scripture clearly tell us he does have a God, both before and after His resurrection. Philippians 4:20; Ephesians 4:6; John 20:17; Matthew 27:46; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 3:2.

One issue is God can not die. So if Jesus was God then he would have had to pretend to die and thus there would not be any forgiveness of sin because he really didn't die. We all know... The wages of Sin is Death.

Paul
 

keithr

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It is highly significant that in verse 18 Jesus attains to a supreme position, meaning that it he did not have it already. Thus he cannot have preexisted as God. If he did his final status would be more of a demotion than the promotion described by Paul.
Jesus has never been God (almighty God, Yahweh, the Father) - he is God's only begotten son. He pre-existed as a god, but not as God Yahweh.

NASB Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.
Right - God sent Jesus into the world in human form. So you agree then that Jesus did exist as a spirit being before he came to earth as a man?
 

keithr

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What people choose to believe they will choose to believe. As I said, God doesn't change. At numbers 35:31 there's a divine principle God gave to Israel: a deliberate murderer could not be ransomed.
Just because someone commits a sin under the Law Covenant that God has declared should result in the death penalty, that does not mean that such sins cannot be forgiven as a result of Jesus' sacrifice. Any sin results in death ("the wages of sin is death") but "the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

Adam by his course of action, brought death to all his offspring, so he was a murderer,
Can you murder somebody who doesn't exist? I don't think so. God told Adam that his disobedience would result in his death - it's as simple as that.

I disagree that it was the Gods purpose, or his will that any of his creatures, angels or humans, to be disobedient to him.
So do I! 1 Samuel 15:22 (WEB):
(22) Samuel said, “Has Yahweh as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying Yahweh’s voice? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.​

You continue to teach people that God's purpose was about his creatures being disobedient to him but I know the scriptures teach otherwise.
I don't teach that! I said that God foresaw that people would sin, but He has allowed it to happen and made provisions so that He can be perfectly just and yet forgive us and grant us eternal life.

So you saying that Adam joining Eve in disobedience was God's purpose or will that Adam and Eve represented to types, Jesus and the church, I disagree.
I never said it was God's purpose that anyone should be disobedient and commit sins!

Also I don't believe the scriptures teach love for a human should come before the love of the True God,
Indeed - Matthew 22:37-39 (WEB):
(37) Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
(38) This is the first and great commandment.
(39) A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’​

which is actually what you're speaking of here.
I never said it was God's will or instruction that Adam should love Eve more than he loved God. I just stated the facts of what happened, not judging whether Adam was right or wrong to take the decision that he did.
 

Ronald Nolette

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That was an opinion Ron, I asked for scriptural support.

Sorry that is not opinion but fact!

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Two people are specifically saying this:
1. Jehovah the King of Israel
2. His redeemer (Jesus) Jehovah of Hosts.

Revelation 1:10-18
King James Version

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Jesus reiterates that He is the first and last!

See just the facts Robert- just the facts.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Just because someone commits a sin under the Law Covenant that God has declared should result in the death penalty, that does not mean that such sins cannot be forgiven as a result of Jesus' sacrifice. Any sin results in death ("the wages of sin is death") but "the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).


Can you murder somebody who doesn't exist? I don't think so. God told Adam that his disobedience would result in his death - it's as simple as that.


So do I! 1 Samuel 15:22 (WEB):
(22) Samuel said, “Has Yahweh as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying Yahweh’s voice? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than the fat of rams.​


I don't teach that! I said that God foresaw that people would sin, but He has allowed it to happen and made provisions so that He can be perfectly just and yet forgive us and grant us eternal life.


I never said it was God's purpose that anyone should be disobedient and commit sins!


Indeed - Matthew 22:37-39 (WEB):
(37) Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
(38) This is the first and great commandment.
(39) A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’​


I never said it was God's will or instruction that Adam should love Eve more than he loved God. I just stated the facts of what happened, not judging whether Adam was right or wrong to take the decision that he did.

The True God doesn't change, it's true that Adam wasn't under the law covenant because he wasn't created with a sinful nature, he didn't inherit sin from the True God but the principal of justice concerning a murderer is still valid because that devine principle concerning a unrepentant murderer doesn't change with God. Adam knowingly and deliberately forfeited Paradise, true happiness, and everlasting life and and in there place, his offspring started off with sin, suffering and death because of Adams disobedience. The act of disobedience of Adam can't be taken lightly. It was rebellion, a flagrant disregard of all the good that the True God had done for him. By Adams disobedience he rejected the True God, instead he chose a course of independence from the true God. He rejected the True God rulership, which has had catastrophic consequences. Adam in know way acted in the True God image or likeness nor did he reflect God's glory when he was disobedient.
You can make what Adam did with your reasoning that God approved of Adam disobedience by you saying that because of Adams perfect love for his wife he didn't want her to have to go through death on her own, as though that makes everything ok in God's eyes and that disobedience was part of Gods plan, purpose and will, but you're wrong. You honestly believe that the kind of love Adam had for his wife is the kind of love for a human should come first? God has always required obedience. Just because Eve chose disobedience doesn't mean Adam should have chosen disobedience. Adam chose eternal death not for just himself but for his offspring. The True God had to assign a deliverer or seed to buy back the eternal life Adam deliberately threw away, not just for himself but for his offspring.
 
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keithr

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Adam in know [no] way acted in the True God image or likeness nor did he reflect God's glory when he was disobedient. You can make what Adam did with your reasoning that God approved of Adam disobedience by you saying that because of Adams perfect love for his wife he didn't want her to have to go through death on her own, as though that makes everything ok in God's eyes and that disobedience was part of Gods plan, purpose and will, but you're wrong. etc..
You're repeating your misunderstanding of what I wrote, reading into it things I didn't write, and which I've already stated that I disagree with. I've simply stated how Adam may have reasoned and come to his decision to eat the forbidden fruit. I've not stated that it was the right thing to do or that God approved or that it was God's will that Adam should do what he did. The fact remains that Adam and Eve have been saved by Jesus' sacrifice, just as much as their descendants have been saved.