Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?

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Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth?


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Robert Gwin

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Sorry that is not opinion but fact!

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Two people are specifically saying this:
1. Jehovah the King of Israel
2. His redeemer (Jesus) Jehovah of Hosts.

Revelation 1:10-18
King James Version

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.

16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.


Jesus reiterates that He is the first and last!

See just the facts Robert- just the facts.

I do not disagree that the two share that description sir, I simply disagree that they are the same individual. I agree with the Bible that Jehovah is God, and Jesus is His son

They are first and last at different things as well Ron
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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You're repeating your misunderstanding of what I wrote, reading into it things I didn't write, and which I've already stated that I disagree with. I've simply stated how Adam may have reasoned and come to his decision to eat the forbidden fruit. I've not stated that it was the right thing to do or that God approved or that it was God's will that Adam should do what he did. The fact remains that Adam and Eve have been saved by Jesus' sacrifice, just as much as their descendants have been saved.

Yeah, it's like you're a person saying there is no gravity when all the evidence points there is gravity. All the evidence points that you're claiming by the way you're reasoning on the scriptures, that sin and death source are from the True God, no matter how much you want to ignore the evidence that you're doing that. I'll always disagree with you because you're ignoring those facts by the way you reason on the scriptures, and yes I'll keep repeating those facts because I disagree with how you're reasoning on the scriptures.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I do not disagree that the two share that description sir, I simply disagree that they are the same individual. I agree with the Bible that Jehovah is God, and Jesus is His son

They are first and last at different things as well Ron

I never said they are the same individual. Go back and read my post carefully this time. And Jesus is also called Jehovah! Teh father is the first and last and Jesus is the first and last!

Jesus said he was one with His Father- that is not the JW mistranslation meaning united or in union.
 

Robert Gwin

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I never said they are the same individual. Go back and read my post carefully this time. And Jesus is also called Jehovah! Teh father is the first and last and Jesus is the first and last!

Jesus said he was one with His Father- that is not the JW mistranslation meaning united or in union.

Really? Jn 17:22 I believe Jesus sir not you. Fact is Jesus is never called Jehovah, in the Bible anyway.
 

keithr

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So you saying that ... Adam and Eve represented two types, Jesus and the church, I disagree.
A new thread (Adam, a picture of Christ) reminded me of Romans 5:14 (MKJV):

(14) But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is the type of Him who was to come;​
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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A new thread (Adam, a picture of Christ) reminded me of Romans 5:14 (MKJV):

(14) But death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is the type of Him who was to come;​

The type that Jesus came was as a perfect human like the first Adam was when he was created but before he sinned. So Jesus came as a sinless human like Adam the first human, Jesus came without a sinful nature like Adam the first human, Jesus came without spot or blemish like Adam the first human. However the first human Adam didn't maintain that state of being sinless, or without a sinful nature, or without spot or blemish. Instead he caused himself to be sinful, with a sinful nature, and he became spotted and blemished. The first Adam sold himself and his offspring into slavery to sin and death. (Romans 7:14) The first Adam murdered his offspring because not only did Adam throw his eternal life away but he also threw away eternal life for his offspring. When the Only Begotten Son of God Jesus came as a type like the first human Adam Jesus maintained that state of being sinless, and maintained being without having a sinful nature and he remained without spot or blemish up to his death, Jesus not only proved that Adam, the first human, was capable of remaining sinless and remaining without a sinful nature, and that he could have remained without spot or blemish but Jesus bought back Adams offspring that the first Adam sold into slavery to sin and death. Adam the first human chose to deliberately sell himself and his offspring into sin and death but that doesn't mean that Adam the first human didn't have the ability to remain sinless, or without a sinful nature or without spot or blemish, he could have chosen to be obedient to the True God.
The scriptures show that the ransom sacrifice doesn't apply to all humans because the scriptures show that anyone who blasphemes against God's Holy Spirit will not be saved. This explains scriptures like Matthew 20:28 that say: "Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and give his life a ransom in exchange for many." This scripture shows us the ransom sacrifice was given to mankind in general but it's application would be limited to only those who deserved it. God has the right to refuse to accept a ransom for anyone he deems unworthy of that ransom sacrifice. Romans 5:12 shows that Adam by his deliberate act of disobedience condemned all mankind to death. Adam presumptuously robbed us, his offspring, to decide for ourselves. None of us who are Adams offspring had a say in the matter that Adam chose for everyone.
The scriptures at Hebrews 10:26-29 show that those who practice sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth can't be forgiven. The scriptures that concern people like Hebrews 10:26-29 are about people who know the truth and then knowingly, willfully, and deliberately are disobedient to the True God. The scriptures that talk of those who are beyond salvation these scriptures are about divine principles concerning the True God. These devine principles have always existed with the True God and have always been a part of who the True God is, and God doesn't change. Adam and Eve will not be forgiven, they knew the truth and both threw it away. Adam did it deliberately, Eve threw it all away because she wanted to be a goddess, something she didn't have the right to even desire.
 

keithr

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Adam and Eve will not be forgiven, they knew the truth and both threw it away.
What makes you think that Adam knew "the truth"? All God had told him, according to what is written in Genesis, is that if he ate from tree in the middle of the garden then he would die. He was told this before God had created Eve, so at that point there was no hint or possibility that he would have offspring. There was no mention of him being responsible for the death of all his potential offspring if he ate from the tree. It was only after Eve was created that God told them to “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it.” (Genesis 1:28). It is unclear whether God told them this before or after they had sinned, although Genesis 4:1, which occurs after they had sinned, is the first mention of Adam and Eve mating and having a child, so I suspect that God told them to "be fruitful" after they had sinned.
 

robert derrick

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Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob before coming down from heaven to become a man made of a woman, and now He's the risen God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

ANd His offspring are the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

First the natural seed that believed and obeyed Him, and now all seed of flesh that believe and obey Him.

Once we understand that, it all falls into place nice and neat.

Everything else is confusion.

He also took on Himself the form of man as Melchisedec meeting with Abraham from the slaughter of the kings, visiting Sodom to judge them, and wrestling with Jacob to bless him.

He named Himself to be called Jesus, before coming in the flesh, and He learned obedience as Jacob, when He wrestled with the flesh to not go to the cross.
 
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robert derrick

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All this christ-created stuff is just carnal minded confusion mixed with Scripture.

I really don't understand why anyone naming the name of Jesus would want to go there.

But it is what it is.

Pride is probably the answer. People always want to feel special about what they think, such as some mystical 1911 'awakening' or something.

And there never was any 'lost' tribes of Israel.

The northern kingdom was destroyed and ceased to exist a long time ago.

Everything else is fantasy.
 
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Robert Gwin

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Robert have you come to your own conclusion about this?


Was Jesus a spirit being before coming to earth as a human?

If not understood already Matt, my answer is: Yes, Jesus was a spirit being before coming to earth.
 

keithr

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Jesus was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ...

He also took on Himself the form of man ... and wrestling with Jacob to bless him.

He named Himself to be called Jesus, before coming in the flesh, and He learned obedience as Jacob, when He wrestled with the flesh to not go to the cross.
That is just confusing unscriptual nonsense! To say that God was Jesus, His own only-begotten son, and the God of Jacob, and that He was also Jacob and fought with Himself to try and persuade Himself to not be crucified hundreds of years later - well that's just ridiculous nonsense. To say that God needs to learn obedience is ridiculous and an insult to God. Who is God going to obey?

All this christ-created stuff is just carnal minded confusion mixed with Scripture.

I really don't understand why anyone naming the name of Jesus would want to go there.
Because the Bible declares the truth that God created all things through His Son Jesus. It's not confusion - it's the truth. Confusion mixed with Scripture is what led to the Trinity - the most confusing and ridiculous theory ever invented by men!

1 Corinthians 8:6 (WEB):
(6) yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we live through him.​
 

post

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That is just confusing unscriptual nonsense! To say that God was Jesus, His own only-begotten son, and the God of Jacob, and that He was also Jacob and fought with Himself to try and persuade Himself to not be crucified hundreds of years later - well that's just ridiculous nonsense. To say that God needs to learn obedience is ridiculous and an insult to God. Who is God going to obey?

whoever denies He came in the flesh is antichrist.

'He came in the flesh' -- i.e. He pre-existed flesh.

whoever denies the divinity of Christ, is not a Christian.

But unto the Son He saith,
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of Thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed Thee with the oil of gladness above Thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of Thine hands

(Hebrews 1:8-10)​

the LORD calls the Son, "Oh God"
the Son is called the Creator of heaven and earth

Christ is God.
the God of the LORD is Christ.
the God of Christ is the LORD.
the Word is God, and God became flesh, and manifested Himself to us.
 
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post

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when He wrestled with the flesh to not go to the cross.

brother - if we ascribe fear and doubt to Him, we ascribe sin to Him.

He wept over us, there - praying that we be kept from The Evil.
just as He wept over Jerusalem, and over those mourning Lazarus.
the cup He drinks contains His tears, His sorrow for our sake
"put Thou My tears into Thy bottle" - Ps. 56:8

remember, He endured this "for the joy set before Him"
 

Taken

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Do you have scriptural evidence to support your viewpoint?

1 Cor 15:
[47] The first man IS of the earth, earthy:
the second man.... IS the Lord from heaven.

Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
 

post

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How is God with us sir, physically? Or since the Bible reveals that no man can see God and live

Am I with you so long a time, and you have not known Me?
(John 14:9)

And they saw the God of Israel
(Exodus 24:10)

thou art the King of Israel!
(John 1:49)

I the LORD, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King!
(Isaiah 43:15)

the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His servants shall serve Him

(Revelation 22:3)

 

post

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the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it;
and His servants shall serve Him

(Revelation 22:3)

pay attention to this:

the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it
and His servants shall serve Him

'the throne' singular
it belongs to God & The Lamb.
singular.

not 'thrones' -- 'throne'
this is not a mistake.
 

post

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I always found it interesting that Jesus had limited use of God's holy spiri

lol wow, what do you mean, 'limited' ??

when they saw Him, they worshipped Him: but some doubted.
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,

All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.
(Matthew 22:17-18)

i was going to ask if you're reading a different Bible than the rest of us
then i remembered that yes, in fact, sadly, you are.
one purposefully & wickedly corrupted in attempt to strip Christ of His deity.
but those men you are a disciple of, even they could not remove it. of course they couldn't.
 

APAK

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whoever denies He came in the flesh is antichrist.

'He came in the flesh' -- i.e. He pre-existed flesh.
Today, as centuries before. we have borrowed this same Greek idiom and applied it as it was meant to be understood. Only recently, you as many others are determined to refine it to suit your doctrine and beliefs.

I saw him 'in the flesh' or he 'came in the flesh' obviously means, I saw him face-to-face, he came in person and not by proxy, or by someone else in his stead; he was here, I saw him myself.....

Why suddenly redefine this idiom and give Christ a new special meaning and exception for it? He 'came in the flesh' never means he pre-existed. There is no historical precedence for using this idiom this way.

John was saying that Christ was a person, like you or me. He was a human male. He had the same human genome sequence as us. And if people do not believe he was a REAL (historical) person that folks could see and touch with their own eyes and hands, then they obviously also deny that the Christ was also real, a real human being, - in the flesh.

This idiom has nothing to do with pre-existence or not, for any person. Your doctrine has forced you to imagine and apply a more liberal redefinition of this idiom for Christ, to believe you 'see' this Christ as pre-existing. I suggest you find other scripture to show this, instead of abusing and misapplying this idiom for your own purpose.

Just saying...find other scripture, if you can, to show Christ pre-existed
 
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