Church Bashing

[marks]

Well…yes, I’m aware of how you find him, but my discussion was on the doctrine of Eternal Torment Forever, not a discussion of my friend.

My discussion on this thread was more concerning condemning the innocent. Whether a doctrine is harmful or not, well, I think that depends on whether it's true or not.

And there are many things harmful, but what's worse is the one who leads into despair.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Were the apostles guilty of "church bashing"?

Not like what I'm talking about.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Destroyed them that believed not. But only until He raises them for judgement after which they will not be destroyed/die again but will be given eternal life so they can be tormented for eternity.

The await their judgment in sheol, not annihilated, dead, but not non-existent.

You need a definition of death that works everywhere.

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

Here, people prefer to denigrate and "rebuke" people whom they've never even met!

Personal is committed. Someone I know IRL is not at all like someone over the internet. We can pretend whatever we want, and who is the wiser? Talk a good talk, and especially put others down. That seems to be the common calling card. Whether it's this accusations of "Laodicean", or "you're reading it carnally!", or whatever it is, its always the same! Denigration instead of explanation.

Much love!

But isn't this slightly Forum(church?)-bashy?

 

[David H.]

If the Spirit is using you, you will be accurate.

And you are the judge of this accuracy? Your systematic theology is the only way to see things as to determine accuracy? That is limiting God to your understanding.

 

[marks]

It may not have been the intent of the OP, but why pretend that's not what it always becomes? We never seem to be able to collectively agree where the fine line is between reproval and condemnation. One could argue that this issue alone largely fuels the majority of discussion forum-wide. Otherwise, we'd all be extolling the matchless charms of The LORD Jesus.

The mouth speaks out of what's in our hearts, and some people are pretty messed up inside.

And even "reproval", I mean, very few of us here have any real personal knowledge of the others. I think it's mostly pride and other mental illnesses. I think the great majority who "reprove and rebuke" in on line forums do so out of an inner feeling of need, easily characterized as "self-affirmation".

Telling someone else they are wrong has great appeal to someone who feels the need to prove themselves to themselves, or who feels threatened by their words.

Much love!

 

[marks]

...whose doctrines clearly affected their personal moral values, and likely in their teachings passing on those human devised moral benchmark to their congregations.

That's not necessarily true, and maybe isn't true at all.

Sometimes people choose what they choose regardless of what they know.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And all of the clinging for dear life

Such drama!

 

[marks]

Destroyed them that believed not. But only until He raises them for judgement after which they will not be destroyed/die again but will be given eternal life so they can be tormented for eternity.

So then you hold to the idea that after they died, they ceased to exist, but will be "reconstituted" for judgment, after which they will cease to exist? Why bother?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So you have to have great humility and carefulness with and in holiness.

Where is this in Christianity?

This is a works doctrine, your acceptance by God according to what you do. And that kind of teaching destroys people.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Correct.

Do you recall Jesus saying do not resist evil? What does this mean? It means the EXACT OPPOSITE of what supporters of church bashers are defending.



Do you grasp the difference between 'talking about' something and 'bashing' something? We are supposed to love and pray for our enemies, not bash them. And I doubt Christ followers with different doctrines are even our enemy.

Obviously, many Christians have made 'sound doctrine' an idol. This idolatry feeds into the original sin of pride, leading to a God Complex. As Nietzsche said, be careful of the monster you hunt that you do not become the monster.

I'm glad you get what I was getting at!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Oy vey. My fellow man is not the boss of me. Jesus will judge. Jesus IS the judge. That job is already taken. Why do so many seek to usurp the role of Jesus?

Because they have become convinced within themselves . . .

1. I know other men's hearts.
2. I know true judgment.
3. I have the right to judge others.
4. Its good to judge others.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You read me (and know me; for some reason you have the ability to pull things out about myself that I wouldn't tell others) well enough, and you were right about that. But I sent you a couple of scriptures indicating that God considers ALL His people "holy"; I'll let you think about that for a while. I don't want to distract you while you are doing God's purposes, or I might be in trouble for really messing with God's holiness, the type of trouble you mentioned. I also trust He won't destroy you after you accomplish this particular purpose. At least, I hope not; I'd miss you. He'll just clean you up for your next purpose. And what God has called clean, let no man call common. (Acts 10:15) I'll think about what you said about the ditches. Bring a winch; you may have to pull me out of one of those ditches some day.

This ditches thing . . . it's an humanism. God never said that.

But consider . . . first someone says, there are ditches on both sides. OK. Now they say, we are saved by works? We are saved by faith? Let's not fall into either ditch! Humanisms are there to be misused by the theologically challenged.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am sure you have read posts in the past that explain why for ever and ever does not mean eternally. And they give examples from scripture where it is clearly a limited time.
Eternal fire for example does not mean that the thing it burns continues to exist. Jude7 for example.

The same wording for everlasting life is used for everlasting torment. If it doesn't mean everlasting torment, why would it mean everlasting life?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You solve it by starting with the premise that both sets of scriptures are true and adding to them as you find them.

What "Both sets"?

 

[marks]

We shouldn’t refer to the building as a church, but rather a temple. The people within the temple might be a church.

Actually, in 1 Corinthians 3 among other places, the people are the temple. "Church" used to mean "the house of a lord".

Much love!

 

[marks]

Hmm…you liked my post but didn’t answer it…
I’m trying to get at if you think God is holy means: God is set aside for Gods purposes. No, right?

That God is Holy, He is always true to Himself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Okay, but on whose authority do you have such an opinion considering the scripture says, the soul that sins, will die.

Death is separation, and the soul that sins will be separated.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If I may butt in... Holiness to me means without imperfection. Perfect. Whole. Complete. Mature. Unblemished.
Righteousness to me means right doing.

I'd suggest starting with the literal Greek definition of hagios.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It says the fire will be eternal. Why do you think men are born eternal? Has it come from specific verses you’ve read or did you take another mans word for it?

Jesus said the torment would be everlasting. Won't you take His word?

Much love!