There is no "office in the Church" that is related to "tongues".
No verse or Bible has any scripture in it, that even suggest this that you just made up.
So, what you just wrote is your imagination, combined with a commentary that lied to you.
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There is no "office in the Church" that is related to "tongues".
No verse or Bible has any scripture in it, that even suggest this that you just made up.
So, what you just wrote is your imagination, combined with a commentary that lied to you.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Perhaps.
Although the greater likelihood is that the reference is to certain believers being able to speak tongues in multiple languages, including the language of angels. But the question always arises when people say tongues is only to minister to others: How does speaking in the tongue of angels minister to anyone but angels, since angels are the only ones who understand that tongue? But if it is a prayer language, God Almighty very well understands it, and is able to respond accordingly.
Its a spiritual gift.
Its the least (#9) and you are to pursue the best.. which is the 1st.
And then there is this, that you do not know, as well.
"Tongues are for a Sign"....1 Corinthians 14:22
"Signs are for the JEW"....1 Corinthians 1:22
So, are you a Jew?
No you are not.
You are just someone that likes to cause confusion on a Christian Forum.
You should stop.
That would be the wise move, but i dont think you can.
Once you are born again God no longer sees you as a sinner but as righteous and calls us saints. I think that's what she meant, and to call yourself lifelong sinner is a negative statement.
There are as I see it in the scripture two kinds of angels mentioned in the scriptures. There are heavenly angels, and there are earthly angels, all being messengers sent by God. Gabriel would be an example of a heavenly angel whereas John the Baptist and Paul the Apostle would be earthly or human angels. Jimmy Swaggert was like the Baptist and Paul in the beginning of his ministry, but then when he sinned against man and God he was one of those fallen angels. How many really example of that have there been?Perhaps.
Both kinds are angels or messengers according to His purpose. A human being, we might call an evangelist. The two English words angel and messenger are found in the NT translated from one Greek word:
a[ggeloß Aggelos (ang'-el-os);
Word Origin: Greek, Noun Masculine, Strong #: 32
- a messenger, envoy, one who is sent, an angel, a messenger from God
angel 179
messenger 7
God has certainly called human beings to preach/teach/relate/prophesy a message to people who were listening...
As to the different kinds of tongues, we have 1) those who do not understand or speak languages foreign to them for the benefit of people who do communicate in those foreign such as we witness in Acts chapter two.
2) Then we have persons gifted by God with messages in tongues/languages unknown to any of the listeners but for them a person with the gift of interpretation must also be present as per I Cor. chapters 12 and 14.
My wife has been used in both the 1st and the 2nd gifts of tongues I described.
Finally, there is the prayer language, a heavenly language in which a person talks with God. This last one is my gift. I talk to God daily in a prayer language.
I won't say there are not more than three. Those are the three I was able to identify in my biblical studies into the subject many years ago.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
When men who were filled with the Holy Spirit _ as on Pentecost, spoke to the crowd that had more than a dozen foreigners who all spoke different languages, they all heard them in their own mind as if it was their own language. These speakers who spoke in tongues, did not take each foreigner aside and preach to each individual foreigner separately. No they spoke to the crowd in tongues and the crowd simultaneously super-naturally discerned the heavenly language of angels (tongues) as if it were there own language.
Imagine the POTUS speaking to the United Nations. Each head of state has head phones hearing the translation of his speach. This Pentecost event was like that, only God supernaturally translated the words in their minds for them. It is right there is scripture!
"Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?” Acts 2:7-12
Some mocked them and said they were drunk because to them it sounded like undiscernable babbling BECAUSE they were not filled with the Spirit - they were not given thw discernment if tongues and were and remained unbelievers.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Only thing I disagree with is, there really isn't any such thing as a 'prayer language'. The "cannot be uttered" phrase in Romans 8:26 means exactly that in the Greek, 'unutterable' (alaletos).
Rom 8:26
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
KJV
If you allow the idea of a 'prayer language' then you are supporting the false idea of an unknown tongue being spoken. The KJV translators showed they didn't really understand it, because they wrongly inserted the word "unknown" into the 1 Corinthians 14 phrase "unknown tongue". It's like you say per Scripture, when the true cloven tongue is spoken, it is UNDERSTOOD as known languages of the world. The true cloven tongue does not manifest as gibberish.
Further proof in Acts 2 of what those present heard on Pentecost is with the Greek alternation of glossa (language) and dialektos (dialect).
The cloven tongue should not be a mystery to our understanding, simply because prior to the tower of Babel event, all peoples spoke one tongue and understood each other. The idea of 'cloven' means divided. God divided the original one tongue that all peoples spoke prior to the Babel event, and thus various languages were created, and the people were parted into the four corners of the earth.
Zephaniah 3:8-9 reveals God will eventually bring the one tongue back for all peoples.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Look at Mark 16:16-18. These tongues are TO God. There is no interpretation noted. That is our prayer language. These gifts are for us individually. But there are higher gifts for ministry and the profit of all listed in 1 Corinthians 12. The tongues in that list must be accompanied with interpretation, because they are messages from God. 1 Corinthians 14 is a teaching on these two types of tongues - individual prayer language and the other whose messages are from God and are listed in 1 Corinthians 14:6. Therefore I will pray in my individual prayer language, or I will pray with interpretation for the profit of all.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.
"Understanding" is "interpretation."
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
No, It means there are no words that can rightly express.
26 And in the same way—by our faith—the Holy Spirit helps us with our daily problems and in our praying. For we don’t even know what we should pray for nor how to pray as we should, but the Holy Spirit prays for us with such feeling that it cannot be expressed in words.
The Bible does not authorize a special "prayer language". That is a made-up idea. If it were true, then Jesus would have told His apostles that they were to pray as directed in Matthew 6 using a prayer language.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
Why, seeing as the Holy Spirit had not even been given yet. He did in Mark 16, and there was no interpretation.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I don't buy that. I choose to stay with what was actually spoken on Pentecost, as written...
Acts 2:5-8
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
KJV
God knows how we speak and hear. And in the Greek of that Acts 2 chapter, it even refers to the idea of dialects of their home languages is what they heard.
And FYI, in the 1 Corinthians 14 chapter, the KJV word "unknown" is NOT in the Greek manuscripts. Thus there is no such thing as a 'unknown' tongue.
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
Actually there any number of spiritual gifts, and the "list of 9" is a mixture of Specifics (like Interpretation of Tongues) and Categories (Miracles).
Which assumes that the "list" implies any "order of importance".
1 Cor 14 disagrees, giving several uses for the Gift of Tongues (which is actually a subset of the gift of Prophesy).
There's no evidence that Peter addressed the crowd in "Tongues", but spoke in the Common tongue to the people who EARLIER had heard the disciples speaking in languages they shouldn't have known. Peter didn't manifest the "Gift of tongues" in addressing the crowd, although many of the disciples did.
1 Cor 14 disagrees.
Nope!!! The bible is specific, CAN'T BE UTTERED!!! So nothing is being spoken at all obviously.
More word games. since when is "Speaking to God" not "prayer" which makes those tongues a "Prayer language" whether YOU like it or not.
Not necessarily!!!! If somebody is deathly sick, which would make "the gifts of healings" the BEST Gift, And "Word of Knowledge" would be worthless.
"Tongues" would be the BEST Gift if you need to communicate with somebody who's language you don't speak (it still happens).
"Interpretation of Tongues would be the BEST Gift, when a message in tongues is given in a meeting, so that the Congregation is edified.
The BEST GIFT is ALWAYS the one that ministers to the situation you're faced with.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
God gave each devout Jew the supernatural ability to HEAR their own language. Read it again and you can see that that is what it plainly says. Tongues are not understood by any man. 1 Corinthians 14:2. That also is plainly stated, even without adding "unknown". Carnal human reasoning says otherwise.
Bob Carabbio
Well-Known Member
CHuckle!!! This is the "Minority view" - the "Miracle of Hearing" version.
What those in the field (Assemblies of God) have reported is:
Cases where the Common tongue is spoken and HEARD in 1 or more different languages.
Cases where a TONGUE is spoken, AND understood by the listener(s) in his own language (often with the proper regional accent).
Cases where a tongue is spoken and HEARD in 1 or more different languages
Cases where a tongue is spoken, and NOBODY understands - until the Interpretation is given by another, or by the tongues speaker him/her self.
The "list of 9" in 1 Cor 12 IS NOT "INCLUSIVE". There are any number of GIFTS - under the category of "Miracles" for example - From Opening the Red Sea to killing half an army with an ass' jawbone, or Supernatural strength, or killing a giant with a slingshot. And the gift of Deliverance from Demonic oppression isn't even mentioned, even thought "Discerning of Spirits" is.
Name it then whatever you like, but I have been talking to God in a language He gave to me 46 years ago. For many years now it has been a daily communication link between me and Him. You can disbelieve it, but for me you cannot disprove it. You use the scripture to support your position as if God must agree with it. I strive to surrender to God to be led to His position, whatever that is.
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?" Rom 8:31
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
That is possibly true as there are few that find it. We must be born again to understand the Scriptures. 1 Corinthians 2:9-16
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
This was hyperbole. Note the exaggeration in context.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, (he doesnt) and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (Explain below)
- 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; (he doesn't) and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains (still doesn't do that either), and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned (no didn't do that), and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
- The Corinths were being haughty about their ways. Paul was saying it doesn't matter how spiritually high and mighty you are, if you don't love, you have nothing. It means nothing and it's worthless.
- The Corinths also came from a pagan background and one of the things they did was a "spiritual babbling", gibberish, to increase their emotional "heights" and they used cymbals in this practice, so it was a rebuke.
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
I'm about to have a debate with Fluffy! Oh boy! LoL.
Forgive my exuberance, sister. I just find you more more pleasant to discuss scripture with than some of the others I occasionally have to contend with around here.
Ok, now my first response (and I have others) would be this: If he was speaking in hyperbole, how would what he was saying have any point to it? The passage reads like this:
13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
Now, if he was saying that a person is nothing if they do all these things without love, yet the things that he mentioned cannot be done, isn't that essentially making his whole argument moot? It essentially says, "If you do all these things that cannot be done, but you do them without love, it will profit you nothing," but if we can't do them anyway, why is it even relevant?
Don't let my disagreements with you make you think I'm being confrontational. I'm a different animal with friends than I am with enemies : )
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
If Paul had given his body to be burned and he was dead he wouldn't have been writing and I'm not done so hold on.
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