Paralambanetai

[marks]

I believe many Christians will think he is Jesus Christ and won't realize they committed Apostasy.

None who trust in the Lord shall be ashamed.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

So then here is my question for you.

IF the Christians Paul was writing to thought that they would be gathered to Christ when the Day of the Lord came, why would they be distressed by someone telling them the day of the Lord had arrived?

They didn't understand the order of events and some false prophet likely told them they missed the rapture.

The reason they would be distressed is that they expected to be gathered to Christ before the day of wrath was here. So Paul assures them, that day shall not come but the departure come first.

And he used a Greek word that means a "departure from the faith" from the word apostasia which is equal to English "apostasy". He did not use a word that has the meaning of physical movement.

 

[ewq1938]

None who trust in the Lord shall be ashamed.

Those who STOP trusting in the true Lord and fall away to a false lord will be ashamed, and much more than that.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes!

:)

No!

:)

 

[Truth7t7]

So then here is my question for you.

IF the Christians Paul was writing to thought that they would be gathered to Christ when the Day of the Lord came, why would they be distressed by someone telling them the day of the Lord had arrived?

The reason they would be distressed is that they expected to be gathered to Christ before the day of wrath was here. So Paul assures them, that day shall not come but the departure come first.

Much love!

The departure does come first as scripture teaches, and it's not a pre-trib rapture of the Church to heaven

 

[Timtofly]

Too far afield for me. For one it turns Satan being a "man" into figurative language, and for another the rest of the passage then becomes unnatural. It would do Satan, an angelic being, no good to sit in the temple of God without actually manifesting himself visibly to the world, otherwise no one would even know he was doing so. A true man in the flesh, however, would very naturally be visible to the world.

Since Satan sits in the Temple of Christ, it is God that allows Satan such a position, not that Satan pulled one over on unsuspecting humanity.

There are some today working directly under Satan. Does not effect the masses one iota.

 

[Curtis]

I don't agree with the renegade Jew part, but him being an Iraqi or Iranian is interesting. Both countries are 99% Muslim, whereas Syria is only 87%.

An Assyrian is defined as someone from the region centered in Syria and some parts of Iran and Iraq.

Which lets out Prince Charles, Putin, and all other candidates for the antichrist I know of...

That’s meant mainly for Enoch, who’s original post of that, I haven’t seen.

Hitler was the best candidate for the AC I know of, since he was taking over the world, seemed unstoppable for a while, and persecuted the Jews, yet even he wasn’t the antichrist.

Putin’s not even as good a candidate as Hitler was...

 

[Curtis]

The Church will "escape" the time of the Lords indignation upon the world as seen below

Isaiah 26:20-21 below clearly shows the hour of earth's temptation, and the church is instructed to enter the dwelling place until the indignation is past, just like the passover in Egypt, God's Divine protection

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Yes, the mid trib rapture is pre wrath, and pre mark.

 

[ScottA]

We Disagree

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

"when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)"

Although I filled in some of the details that have escaped you, that is exactly what I said...but you say "We Disagree"

Whatever. If you don't recognize the end for what [He] is, you will when you get there.

 

[Curtis]

In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 we find two things that blow-up the pretrib scenario:

1. Paul said this writing concerns THE COMING of the Lord, and our being gathered to be with Him - pretrib rapture theory is that the rapture doesn’t count as His COMING, because He makes a U turn after catching the saints up into the air, and goes back to heaven - yet Paul says the coming of Jesus is when we are gathered to be with Him, and not before then.

2. Paul wrote in that passage that the son of perdition/abomination of desolation event must precede both the rapture and the day of the Lord, and other scriptures confirm that the day of the lord is either part of His second coming, or precedes it by a very short interval.

Example: the return of Jesus to Mount Olive with all the saints occurs in Zechariah 14:4-5, with the Day of the Lord preceding it, in Zechariah 14:1 ; Matthew 24:30-31 has a rapture with the Day of the Lord preceding it in verse 29, plus the son of perdition event in verse 15, precedes both - which aligns with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 that states the day of the lord, His coming, and the rapture must not precede the abomination of desolation event, aka the son of perdition event.

The pretrib rapture is untenable, IMO.

 

[Curtis]

"when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)"

Although I filled in some of the details that have escaped you, that is exactly what I said...but you say "We Disagree"

Whatever. If you don't recognize the end for what [He] is, you will when you get there.

Yes, the end of the age, not the end of the world.

 

[Brakelite]

That cannot be true since the role of the Antichrist is to deceive the whole world.

And he's doing just that.

 

[Timtofly]

Its The DEPARURE of the Church. You just wasted a lot of writing, I understand what it has come to be seen as with a BAD TRANSLATION in 1611.

Immediately after the Second Coming many will realize they are still on earth and part of The Apostisized.

"And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Obviously they did not depart.

 

[marks]

And he's doing just that.

That is SO cute!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I really can’t say for sure when the first resurrection occurs. But, that makes sense, since no one knows the day or hour. I mean, it definitely occurs before the millenium, and we aren’t appointed for Gods wrath, so I believe it occurs before He pours out His wrath during the tribulation. And the second resurrection definitely occurs after the millenium.

The first resurrection actually began with Jesus and the many of their dead they saw walking around during that 40 days. And that makes sense also. The first sheath (Christ and the dead they saw walking around), the larger harvest (the first resurrection), then the gleaning (those who died in the tribulation who cry out from under the altar.)

 

[ewq1938]

I really can’t say for sure when the first resurrection occurs. But, that makes sense, since no one knows the day or hour. I mean, it definitely occurs before the millenium, and we aren’t appointed for Gods wrath, so I believe it occurs before He pours out His wrath during the tribulation. And the second resurrection definitely occurs after the millenium.

The first resurrection actually began with Jesus and the many of their dead they saw walking around during that 40 days. And that makes sense also. The first sheath (Christ and the dead they saw walking around), the larger harvest (the first resurrection), then the gleaning (those who died in the tribulation who cry out from under the altar.)

Christ's own resurrection is a different "first resurrection" than the one found in Revelation 20.

There are three "first resurrections" in scripture:

1. The first human being who died and was resurrected.
2. Jesus, the first to resurrect to immortality.
3. The first of two groups of the dead who resurrect from the dead back to physical life in Revelation 20. (the first before the thousand years and the second after it)

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is NOT a reference to "The first human being who died and was resurrected." nor is it a reference to "Jesus, the first to resurrect to immortality."

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is a reference to the first of two groups of the dead that resurrect from death. The first group resurrects, then we are told, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". That group is the second resurrection of the dead from death.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don’t disagree with any of that. I just see that there was a resurrection already when they saw many of their dead walking around after Jesus rose.

And I think I can pretty easily see first sheaf, larger harvest, and gleaning.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, the end of the age, not the end of the world.

When Jesus Chrust returns The end of the world takes place (Then Cometh The End)

Of course you want to se a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, that will never take place

 

[Truth7t7]

Christ's own resurrection is a different "first resurrection" than the one found in Revelation 20.

There are three "first resurrections" in scripture:

1. The first human being who died and was resurrected.
2. Jesus, the first to resurrect to immortality.
3. The first of two groups of the dead who resurrect from the dead back to physical life in Revelation 20. (the first before the thousand years and the second after it)

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is NOT a reference to "The first human being who died and was resurrected." nor is it a reference to "Jesus, the first to resurrect to immortality."

The first resurrection in Revelation 20 is a reference to the first of two groups of the dead that resurrect from death. The first group resurrects, then we are told, "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". That group is the second resurrection of the dead from death.

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don’t disagree with any of that. I just see that there was a resurrection already when they saw many of their dead walking around after Jesus rose.

And I think I can pretty easily see first sheaf, larger harvest, and gleaning.

It's my opinion that those seen after the Lords death were "raised from the dead" and not resurrected, just as Lazarus was "raised from the dead" this takes place on the last day when the glorified immortal body is received

You will closely note the scripture states "After His Resurrection" not "Their Resurrection

Matthew 27:50-53KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.