Brakelite
Well-Known Member
What can I say. My neighborhood is mysteriously devoid of cats, dogs, and rabbits.So how are your animal sacrifices going? I hope you don't get arrested for keeping everything that is written in the book of the law.
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What can I say. My neighborhood is mysteriously devoid of cats, dogs, and rabbits.So how are your animal sacrifices going? I hope you don't get arrested for keeping everything that is written in the book of the law.
What can I say. My neighborhood is mysteriously devoid of cats, dogs, and rabbits.
So how are your animal sacrifices going? I hope you don't get arrested for keeping everything that is written in the book of the law.
Would you like to demonstrate for us, using Scripture, what your understanding of the Law of Ordinances is? Or will you conveniently dodge the question?You joke, but you claim to be keeping all of God's law. Animal sacrifices are an integral, required part of that law. With Passover approaching, don't forget that God required the Hebrews to slaughter a lamb and smear its blood on the doorposts and lintel. Are you going to do that?
I could have explained all that along the same lines, but I couldn't be bothered. Jim knows all that. That's why he doesn't sacrifice animals. He also knows that the commandments against theft, adultery, murder, idolatry etc, are not abolished, because they point out sin. If people didn't know they were sinners, they would never know their need of a Savior. And Jim knows that too. He knows all that. But he, like so many others, doesn't want to admit he knows those things. That's why he sidetracks the conversation into little straw men avenues that serve none or contribute anything to the conversation. And why does he and so many others do that? Because of the pesky irritating commandment number 4, which for so many is just one step too far down the road to full surrender to God's authority.Would you like to demonstrate for us, using Scripture, what your understanding of the Law of Ordinances is? Or will you conveniently dodge the question?
We believe it to mean everything besides the Stone-engraved 10 Commandments; as the Bible makes plain.
Maybe you can tell us when the time of reformation was. The Bible teaches that it was when Christ came.
In Hebrews 9, it speaks of the difference between the tabernacle prior to Christ's sacrifice compared to now and how it all works since the offering of His body, without spot or blemish.
All of the sacrificial, ceremonial Laws involving meat offerings, drink offerings, washings, etc. were referred to as ordinances, " ...imposed ... until the time of reformation."
"... meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal (external) ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation."
Hebrews 9:10
Jesus' Crucifixion got rid of all these laws that concerned the external considerations of the law; ...
"Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; ..."
Ephesians 2:15
... whereas the internal Laws - the 10 Commandments written in the hearts - were not abolished. As they never will be.
A symbolic foreshadowing of this was the 10 Commandments being placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, while the Law of ordinances was placed on the outside of it.
"Take this book of the law, and put it in (on) the side of the Ark of the Covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee."
Deuteronomy 31:26
This was the Law that was contrary to mankind. The Law that was external and abolished on the Cross.
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to the Cross."
Colossians 2:14
"Thou shall put into the Ark the testimony that I will give thee."
Exodus 25:16
This was the 10 Commandments. The Perfect Law of Liberty that sets men free.
James 1:25
Psalms 19:7
There is no longer any laws about sacrifices or ordinances ... as these verses make plain. The Law that teaches us about, and makes us aware of our, sin is still fully in effect. That is the 10 Commandments per 1 John 3:4.
Several things need to be pointed out about how wrong you clearly are:
1. Everything Jesus taught came from the OT.
2. Jesus did not contradict any of the OT prophets, nor did He ever state that He intended to do so.
3. Moses prophesied that Jesus would teach the same things He taught.
4. Jesus quoted Deut. 8:3 where it says man is supposed to live by every word that came from God.
5. If Jesus told anyone to disregard the OT writings, He'd be a false prophet.
Antinomian arguments stem from the delusion that Christ came to teach in opposition of the OT and their self-willed attitude. Their position ignores what Isa. 42:21 says that the Messiah would raise the moral standard, not lower them. You say you obey Jesus and that He is your Lord, but it's all talk because you argue in favor of disobedience.
I could have explained all that along the same lines, but I couldn't be bothered. Jim knows all that. That's why he doesn't sacrifice animals. He also knows that the commandments against theft, adultery, murder, idolatry etc, are not abolished, because they point out sin. If people didn't know they were sinners, they would never know their need of a Savior. And Jim knows that too. He knows all that. But he, like so many others, doesn't want to admit he knows those things. That's why he sidetracks the conversation into little straw men avenues that serve none or contribute anything to the conversation. And why does he and so many others do that? Because of the pesky irritating commandment number 4, which for so many is just one step too far down the road to full surrender to God's authority.
So they make excuses. Theological inventions. Play mind games. All with the intention of avoiding truth. They seem to forget that God can read also. And His angels are recording every word to remind them in due time that they knew, but choose another way. Sad.
He actually only gave 1 new commandment and it seems like most are unable to keep it. But then, that's the whole point of His teachings in all 4 gospels. We are unable to keep the law, any law, perfectly. It is impossible for men, but not for Him. I'm not saying that we should live lawlessly, but we shouldn't be deceived into believing that we can keep any law perfectly either. Jesus' point in all 4 gospels is that the only way to have a righteousness greater than the scribes and Pharisees (who really tried to be righteous) was to accept His righteousness, the righteousness of God, by faith."Some"? I think many, many people object to that statement made by Jesus.
That is certainly true, but if you look at Jesus' sermon on the mount what he is showing is the Pharisees were only righteous in regard to the externals of the law, not the internals, and so our righteousness is to exceed theirs and include the inward things of the law, too, like not coveting your neighbor's wife, not just not committing actual adultery with her.Jesus' point in all 4 gospels is that the only way to have a righteousness greater than the scribes and Pharisees (who really tried to be righteous) was to accept His righteousness, the righteousness of God, by faith.
There is no righteousness greater than that of God.That is certainly true, but if you look at Jesus' sermon on the mount what he is showing is the Pharisees were only righteous in regard to the externals of the law, not the internals, and so our righteousness is to exceed theirs and include the inward things of the law, too, like not coveting your neighbor's wife, not just not committing actual adultery with her.
That's exactly what you're doing because you are characterizing the commandments that define godly love as oppressive rules that shouldn't be observed.I am not, by any means, speaking out about loving God or loving your neighbor. We have been discussing whether Christians are required to keep God's law, and you twist it to say that I'm speaking out about those commandments. That is absolute nonsense, an ad hominem reply.
Since you can't discuss keeping the law you obviously are in the wrong. I will not discuss this with you further until you return to discussing the subject at hand: keeping God's commandments.
"For sin will have no mastery over you, because you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14
That is certainly true, but if you look at Jesus' sermon on the mount what he is showing is the Pharisees were only righteous in regard to the externals of the law, not the internals, and so our righteousness is to exceed theirs and include the inward things of the law, too, like not coveting your neighbor's wife, not just not committing actual adultery with her.
No, lol, a thought is not a sin. That's a temptation. It's not a sin to be tempted. Set your heart on it, entertain it, roll it around in your mind, then it's a sin.One does not have to go as far as “ coveting” your neighbor’s wife to be an Adulterer in God’s eyes....Just one lustful THOUGHT will get that job done
That is true. Through the grace of God's faith believers uphold the law.What he clearly didn't do was say that grace didn't involve law-keeping.
Rom. 10:4 say what you think it does. Paul is actually agreeing with Jesus' statement in Matt. 5:48 where He said His followers are to pursue moral perfection. Guess how that's done? Keeping His Father's commandments! Paul was not saying Jesus put an end to the law. What Paul was saying is that Jesus became the standard of law-keeping. That implies a very different message than the baloney you're trying to sell.What he clearly didn't do was say that grace didn't involve law-keeping.
“ Christ is THE END OF THE LAW for Righteousness”
“ By The WORKS of the LAW , NO FLESH will be Justified “
Got more if you want it.....
"(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;"
Who here claims to have flawlessly obeyed all of God’s commandments 100% of the time? Pinocchio please stand up.
So what does it mean to “keep” Greek word “tereo” (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments?